Now that you mention it, I checked and didn't see it anywhere in the Fujitv website of Super (Where an image for next episode is usually shown as far as I know), instead an image of Black is the one that's shown.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Where did that come from? Is it legit?
That's my exact point they didn't explain it we all assumed oh he did the same as Goku in BoG but Super spent several episodes and didn't explain anything but give vague hits here and there.HeroR wrote:The movie gave us a non-answer. In fact, it never bothered to answer at all. Only that Vegeta got God ki somehow. We were only left assuming he did the ritual off-screen.Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Yeah really didn't like how they pandered around Vegeta getting SSGSS. I would have preferred if they left it like the movie instead of giving us a non-explanation explanation.
Vegeta shouldn't have gotten it in the first place which is why he and his fans should feel very lucky.
Again, though, the real training ISN'T entirely off-screen. There are two scenes that specifically provide some actual, substantial insight on how Goku and Vegeta are able to obtain God ki without a ritual:ekrolo2 wrote:It was purposefully vague but not in a good way because they don't really keep it vague: they just make it house work for the stuff we see then have Vegeta say "The REAL stuff comes later AKA off-screen!" during the weight lifting scene. The F movie was the right way to go: if you can't come up with a good enough way to visualize how fantastically hard as balls the training is, skip it and leave it up to interpretation instead of this weird half-measure thing that says the housework is the mundane shit but the REAL training happens off-screen anyway.
This is also a plausible explanation.GodKaio-Ken wrote:He caught the slice from the sides where there is less cutting power much like a sword.
Vegeta had no sparring partner for months on end so unless he kept trying and failing to punch Whis over and over, I doubt he had a training partner. The Whis ROSAT is also treated as the first time Vegeta's seen this thing as he isn't any more used to it than Goku was. Whis even says it's too soon for Beerus to have thrown them into this place as Whis voices his concerns about the decision, implying this is at best something left for a lot later down the road.Marlowe89 wrote:Again, though, the real training ISN'T entirely off-screen. There are two scenes that specifically provide some actual, substantial insight on how Goku and Vegeta are able to obtain God ki without a ritual:
Scene from Episode 20: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmruUQdxaXM
Scene from Episode 22: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNpUK5n9bHg
(I'm assuming it's okay to post parts of episodes as long as they're not full episodes)
That's not my point. People are acting like Vegeta's obtainment of God ki was left completely vague when that's hardly the case at all.ekrolo2 wrote:Vegeta had no sparring partner for months on end so unless he kept trying and failing to punch Whis over and over, I doubt he had a training partner. The Whis ROSAT is also treated as the first time Vegeta's seen this thing as he isn't any more used to it than Goku was. Whis even says it's too soon for Beerus to have thrown them into this place as Whis voices his concerns about the decision, implying this is at best something left for a lot later down the road.
But this is exactly why people hate the way Vegeta is depicted. A lot of Vegeta fans embrace his anti-hero/rogue independent persona. It diminishes the character when he gets power ups he didn't earn. Remember Trunk appeared as a SSJ before Vegeta and he struggled to get it, even just to get on par with Goku Vegeta went the Majin route but on his own terms. Seeing Vegeta given SSB in BS way just to make him on par with Goku diminishes him as an independent character. Like you said I would MUCH rather Vegeta never got the stupid form and just did his own thing seperate of Goku for a while. I'm not feeling buddy wingman Vegeta at all as it doesn't feel authentic to his established character.Baggie_Saiyan wrote:That's my exact point they didn't explain it we all assumed oh he did the same as Goku in BoG but Super spent several episodes and didn't explain anything but give vague hits here and there.HeroR wrote:The movie gave us a non-answer. In fact, it never bothered to answer at all. Only that Vegeta got God ki somehow. We were only left assuming he did the ritual off-screen.Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Yeah really didn't like how they pandered around Vegeta getting SSGSS. I would have preferred if they left it like the movie instead of giving us a non-explanation explanation.
Vegeta shouldn't have gotten it in the first place which is why he and his fans should feel very lucky.
And the end of BoG, Goku was at a totally different level from Vegeta, next arcs/film their suddenly on par? I think BoG should have the perfect opportunity for Goku to leave the gang and Vegeta and go exploring with Beerus and Whis and that would fit in with EoZ and 5 years etc but then if that happened then we wouldn't have gotten this (fantastic) Black arc. So part of me is glad it didn't.
I guess my point is I didn't feel like Vegeta earned the power he was given, we saw Goku earn the right to have it with his fight with Beerus but Vegeta all he has do is cook for Whis! Which is why I have no sympathy for Vegeta fans when he gets knocked around or got out commissiones by Black. And I get really annoyed when they start whining and throwing memes around saying Toriyama hates Vegeta when Toriyama gave him the most un-earned power up in all of Dragon Ball even more un-earned then Gohan getting Ultimate.
I think in hindsight (if Super was 100% going to be a thing) the Freeza film should have been Vegeta's way of earning that power. BoG was Goku's, "F" would be Vegeta's and U6 arc would be the true beginning of this new DB adventure.
No my point is that it SHOULD have been left completely vague. Training methods in Dragon Ball have gotten so ridiculous that the best way of showing God level training is to keep it as vague as possible. Anything you do will just make people call bullshit. This is what the anime does by essentially making it barebones Roshi training from early DB. The movies were right to simply skip over this.Marlowe89 wrote:That's not my point. People are acting like Vegeta's obtainment of God ki was left completely vague when that's hardly the case at all.ekrolo2 wrote:Vegeta had no sparring partner for months on end so unless he kept trying and failing to punch Whis over and over, I doubt he had a training partner. The Whis ROSAT is also treated as the first time Vegeta's seen this thing as he isn't any more used to it than Goku was. Whis even says it's too soon for Beerus to have thrown them into this place as Whis voices his concerns about the decision, implying this is at best something left for a lot later down the road.
Also, Vegeta's initial six month training with Whis most likely didn't involve God ki (for reasons you pointed out) as it was implied to be a sort of pre-training period to prepare him for the real training, which didn't really take off until Goku joined them.
Again, the anime didn't do that. The chores and Vegeta's pre-training period =/= the actual God ki training, which was also briefly shown and even explained by the anime.ekrolo2 wrote:This is what the anime does by essentially making it barebones Roshi training from early DB.
Eh I'd just like some cool new training that explains it. Like banishing Goku and Vegeta to some planet where Beerus is out to kill them, so they have to survive him or something cool like that. Or maybe sparing against some opponents Whis can magic up ala Popo filler which was pretty neat.ekrolo2 wrote:No my point is that it SHOULD have been left completely vague. Training methods in Dragon Ball have gotten so ridiculous that the best way of showing God level training is to keep it as vague as possible.
Most likely they are using the pothala's.Anime Kitten wrote:3 pages and I was actually expecting some leak since there's no Gohan talk anymore. Silly me.
Very curious whether the Zamasu merge is really a Fusion or a Piccolo/Kami thing.
I'm going to assume it's a Potara fusion, since Gowasu sort of foreshadowed it earlier when he warned Zamasu not to place his green Potara on the opposite ear.Anime Kitten wrote:Very curious whether the Zamasu merge is really a Fusion or a Piccolo/Kami thing.
Shhhh. Don't mention Gohan. Super wants us to forget about him, or more angry fans will flood in.Anime Kitten wrote:3 pages and I was actually expecting some leak since there's no Gohan talk anymore. Silly me.
I can forgive Toriyama doing this in the movie since there was uncertainty over the future of the franchsie and he fast tracked it in but Super had an opportunity to really course correct a lot of things instead they just coward towards the movies in the end.TheMikado wrote:But this is exactly why people hate the way Vegeta is depicted. A lot of Vegeta fans embrace his anti-hero/rogue independent persona. It diminishes the character when he gets power ups he didn't earn. Remember Trunk appeared as a SSJ before Vegeta and he struggled to get it, even just to get on par with Goku Vegeta went the Majin route but on his own terms. Seeing Vegeta given SSB in BS way just to make him on par with Goku diminishes him as an independent character. Like you said I would MUCH rather Vegeta never got the stupid form and just did his own thing seperate of Goku for a while. I'm not feeling buddy wingman Vegeta at all as it doesn't feel authentic to his established character.
Huh ? Vegeta achieved Super Saiyan 2 through harsh training. He didn't just achieved the form via Babidi or something.Baggie_Saiyan wrote:I'll probably eventually let it go like how Vegeta cheated and got SS2.
Exactly, it's implied Vegeta could already go SSJ2 like Goku but he needed the Majin boost to unlock to get to Goku's level. Which, considering Goku had been dead and nonstop training is still somewhat impressive.Khin wrote:Huh ? Vegeta achieved Super Saiyan 2 through harsh training. He didn't just achieved the form via Babidi or something.Baggie_Saiyan wrote:I'll probably eventually let it go like how Vegeta cheated and got SS2.
I was actually referring to Daizenshuu 7's description on Super Saiyan 2.TheMikado wrote:Exactly, it's implied Vegeta could already go SSJ2 like Goku but he needed the Majin boost to unlock to get to Goku's level. Which, considering Goku had been dead and nonstop training is still somewhat impressive.
Nevertheless I agree.Super Saiyan 2
First Appearance: chapter 408
People: Son Goku, Son Gohan, Vegeta, Gotenks
Special features: This form has power that surpasses Super Saiya-jin in all ways. Gohan naturally transformed into this form from his anger at Cell's brutal actions, while Goku and Vegeta learned it from harsh training.
