Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[1345521]

Well @shadowfox87 came up with a pretty detailed analysis coming up with a multiplier for SSG in the manga as being 400,000x base and CSSB is atleast 10x that. And, unlike the anime, there isn't any indication of the SSG multiplier being toned town after he used it in the ritual. AKA after the associated "god boost" if he transformed after he "absorbed" the power it clearly didn't yield the same boost in the anime but this is never indicated in the manga so it holds to continue to have the same outrageously large SSG multiplier since in the manga iteration there is no scene where Goku "absorbs" SSG.

SSJ Goku fighting evenly with the Hit who beat the shit out of <10% SSJB Vegeta implies otherwise.

Can you link me the analysis?

This was SSG Goku fighting evenly with Hit not SSJ I believe.

I thought that he had posted it somewhere but I realize now that I'm pretty sure it was just in our private conversations. He and I are the number crunching types so we kinda talked about what multipliers we came up with. So I'll just repost his PM to me:

Hey,

I noticed that both of us agree that SSG > SSJ3 Vegito since Goku said fusion would stand no chance against Beerus. If you truly believe this, then I wonder if you agree with this:
Base Vegito > Ultimate Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku (Buu saga)
Base Vegito > SSJ3 Goku (Daizenshuu 7 confirmed, post Buu saga, pre BoG)
Base Vegito > 1.5x SSJ3 Goku (~50% stronger)
Base Vegito > 1.5x 400x Base Goku

SSG > SSJ3 Vegito (based on Goku's statement in DBS anime and movie)
SSG > 1.66x SSJ3 Vegito (5/3% or 66.67% stronger)
SSG > 1.66x 400x 1.5x 400x Base Goku
SSG > 398,400x Base Goku
SSG ~ 400,000x Base Goku

If you agree with this, then the difference between SSG and Base is magnitudes higher than anything else. This is why it really just doesn't make sense to say that Base Goku (ToP) > SSG Goku (BoG) imo. You are free to disagree, but I just wanted to show you this because I did find something that both of us agree on and I took that reference point and expanded on its logic.

I know you are still going to use the whole SSJ Goku vs Beerus in space scene to justify that post-BoG Goku absorbed the power of SSG and somehow converted that god ki into regular ki to make his Base near that level. For me, that entire scene is inconsistent with later events and due to it, I don't count it. Same as the fillers with Potafu arc and Goku vs Beerus in Monaka costume.

Hmph, quite impressed with claims. I thought you'd defintly be the type of person to say:
Base goku after berruz fight= ssj god
Goku has gotten 100x times stronger. And he can stack his ssj forms upon base, and ssj blue is about an trillionsX stronger then base. So if we go. By calculations:
Ssj4 gogeta =< ssj god/ x 100 = current base goku/ x trillion = current ssj blue goku / x 1,000 = MUI Goku
This is the type of power scailing id expect you to make

[Sora Saiyan]

Well @shadowfox87 came up with a pretty detailed analysis coming up with a multiplier for SSG in the manga as being 400,000x base and CSSB is atleast 10x that. And, unlike the anime, there isn't any indication of the SSG multiplier being toned town after he used it in the ritual. AKA after the associated "god boost" if he transformed after he "absorbed" the power it clearly didn't yield the same boost in the anime but this is never indicated in the manga so it holds to continue to have the same outrageously large SSG multiplier since in the manga iteration there is no scene where Goku "absorbs" SSG.

SSJ Goku fighting evenly with the Hit who beat the shit out of <10% SSJB Vegeta implies otherwise.

Can you link me the analysis?

Goku was equal to Future Trunks in SSJ3 (8x SSJ) yet could Blitz and one shot him super duper easily in SSJG, plus SSJG being much stronger than SSJ Black pre zenkais show that it’s a huge increase. Remember that base Black was waaaay ahead of FPSSJ Trunks.

But if that one showing wasn’t enough, we get another one against Toppo where Goku states that his regular SSJ forms are totally useless against him whilst he was still suppressed.
After Goku makes that statement Toppo tells Goku that he’s wasting his time, and Goku responds by saying that once he uses SSJG it’s going to be an entirely different level than what was shown up until that point. That was shown to be entirely true as it didn’t just make Goku close the gap between him and suppressed Toppo, who up until this point was a goal post that his regular SSJ forms genuinely couldn’t make a dent in (they were referred to as useless), but instead it makes Goku climb well ahead of that Toppo, and Toppo has to respond by showing his true power too.

That Hit fight is obsolete or it’s being looked at wrong and maybe there are ways at looking at it for it to make more sense. I’m not a fan when the readers have to make sense out of that shit, but in universe SSJG is absolute magnitudes ahead of SSJ3, so there’s no way SSJ can be that close to Blue.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

SSB could still be 50 x SSG in the manga as well.

All we know is that Vegeta was at less than 10% and SSG Goku was stronger than whatever percentage Vegeta was at.

Vegeta could have been at 1% of SSB full power
SSG Goku could have been 2% of SSB full power

Voila SSB is now 50 x SSG

If Vegeta were at such a low portion of his power Whis could've said something like "Less than 1%" or "An atom of his power" given how the wording is supposed to put emphasis on how weakened Vegeta was. Seems kind of an scretching to put Vegeta below 6% of his full power here IMO.

SSJB Goku and Vegeta weren't one shoting Hit and Goku Black despite both being on pair with the formers' SSJG selves, so SSJB probably isn't even 2x SSJG, let alone 50x.

This was SSG Goku fighting evenly with Hit not SSJ I believe.

He fought him in base and SSJ before going God and as a SSJ they were on a complete stalemate. Goku even seemed to be a step above him given how he was keeping up rather well despite his stamina falling way faster.

Goku was equal to Future Trunks in SSJ3 (8x SSJ) yet could Blitz and one shot him super duper easily in SSJG, plus SSJG being much stronger than SSJ Black pre zenkais show that it’s a huge increase. Remember that base Black was waaaay ahead of FPSSJ Trunks.

But if that one showing wasn’t enough, we get another one against Toppo where Goku states that his regular SSJ forms are totally useless against him whilst he was still suppressed.
After Goku makes that statement Toppo tells Goku that he’s wasting his time, and Goku responds by saying that once he uses SSJG it’s going to be an entirely different level than what was shown up until that point. That was shown to be entirely true as it didn’t just make Goku close the gap between him and suppressed Toppo, who up until this point was a goal post that his regular SSJ forms genuinely couldn’t make a dent in (they were referred to as useless), but instead it makes Goku climb well ahead of that Toppo, and Toppo has to respond by showing his true power too.

That Hit fight is obsolete or it’s being looked at wrong and maybe there are ways at looking at it for it to make more sense. I’m not a fan when the readers have to make sense out of that shit, but in universe SSJG is absolute magnitudes ahead of SSJ3, so there’s no way SSJ can be that close to Blue.

SSJG being dimensions above SSJ3 doesn't require him to be 10x or so above that. Toppo ragdolling SSJ3 Goku around looks a lot like Goku ragdolling Jeice and Burta at the same time, and that wasn't a multifold gap at all (Goku was 60k to their 40k, a 1.5x difference).

How is the Hit fight being looked at on the wrong way? What other ways could we look at it?

[RandomGuy96]

Can someone clarify something for me? Is it generally agreed that the manga versions of the Super characters are much weaker than the anime ones and pretty much in line with their Buu arc levels by the time of the first tournament?

I certainly get the impression that's the case. In the manga, they still use SS2 Gohan from the Cell Games as a meaningful measuring stick when comparing it to Trunks' SS2 and Trunks is capable of matching Goku in SS3.

I read that chapter recently. Goku and Trunks fight in SS2, Whis says that Trunks has a slight edge, then this:

Goku: "Amazing. You're even stronger than Gohan was back then."

...implying a relatively small difference, which fits nicely with Trunks a few years earlier struggling to beat Dabra and needing Kaioshin's help. So yeah, I guess that confirms it. It seems that this chapter was very deliberately written to be a power guide given how out-of-nowhere these statements are, including comparisons to past levels and character clarifying what forms they're in. Which combined with Toriyama's level of supervision makes me strongly suspect that the whole state of affairs in the anime (last I checked anyway) is a possibly-retconned Toei embellishment.

[MoscoSama]

I've believed the anime also retconned the events from the first two arcs since I saw Piccolo vs Frost and later Trunks vs Goku.

While Powercreep is a big part of this franchise, it seems beyond belief even for this franchise that Piccolo and Trunks in the anime (pre SS Rage) could smoke Z and even Goku from BoG

[PFM18]

SSJ Goku fighting evenly with the Hit who beat the shit out of <10% SSJB Vegeta implies otherwise.

Can you link me the analysis?

This was SSG Goku fighting evenly with Hit not SSJ I believe.

I thought that he had posted it somewhere but I realize now that I'm pretty sure it was just in our private conversations. He and I are the number crunching types so we kinda talked about what multipliers we came up with. So I'll just repost his PM to me:

Hey,

I noticed that both of us agree that SSG > SSJ3 Vegito since Goku said fusion would stand no chance against Beerus. If you truly believe this, then I wonder if you agree with this:
Base Vegito > Ultimate Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku (Buu saga)
Base Vegito > SSJ3 Goku (Daizenshuu 7 confirmed, post Buu saga, pre BoG)
Base Vegito > 1.5x SSJ3 Goku (~50% stronger)
Base Vegito > 1.5x 400x Base Goku

SSG > SSJ3 Vegito (based on Goku's statement in DBS anime and movie)
SSG > 1.66x SSJ3 Vegito (5/3% or 66.67% stronger)
SSG > 1.66x 400x 1.5x 400x Base Goku
SSG > 398,400x Base Goku
SSG ~ 400,000x Base Goku

If you agree with this, then the difference between SSG and Base is magnitudes higher than anything else. This is why it really just doesn't make sense to say that Base Goku (ToP) > SSG Goku (BoG) imo. You are free to disagree, but I just wanted to show you this because I did find something that both of us agree on and I took that reference point and expanded on its logic.

I know you are still going to use the whole SSJ Goku vs Beerus in space scene to justify that post-BoG Goku absorbed the power of SSG and somehow converted that god ki into regular ki to make his Base near that level. For me, that entire scene is inconsistent with later events and due to it, I don't count it. Same as the fillers with Potafu arc and Goku vs Beerus in Monaka costume.

Hmph, quite impressed with claims. I thought you'd defintly be the type of person to say:
Base goku after berruz fight= ssj god
Goku has gotten 100x times stronger. And he can stack his ssj forms upon base, and ssj blue is about an trillionsX stronger then base. So if we go. By calculations:
Ssj4 gogeta =< ssj god/ x 100 = current base goku/ x trillion = current ssj blue goku / x 1,000 = MUI Goku
This is the type of power scailing id expect you to make

Alright so two things:

1. The entire purpose of your post was to say "wow you aren't as dumb as I thought, I am impressed!" and is just inappropriate and ridiculous.
2. If you bothered to read the post, you would know these are not my words. This was shadowfox87 speaking. I was just quoting his post.

Well @shadowfox87 came up with a pretty detailed analysis coming up with a multiplier for SSG in the manga as being 400,000x base and CSSB is atleast 10x that. And, unlike the anime, there isn't any indication of the SSG multiplier being toned town after he used it in the ritual. AKA after the associated "god boost" if he transformed after he "absorbed" the power it clearly didn't yield the same boost in the anime but this is never indicated in the manga so it holds to continue to have the same outrageously large SSG multiplier since in the manga iteration there is no scene where Goku "absorbs" SSG.

SSJ Goku fighting evenly with the Hit who beat the shit out of <10% SSJB Vegeta implies otherwise.

Can you link me the analysis?

Goku was equal to Future Trunks in SSJ3 (8x SSJ) yet could Blitz and one shot him super duper easily in SSJG, plus SSJG being much stronger than SSJ Black pre zenkais show that it’s a huge increase. Remember that base Black was waaaay ahead of FPSSJ Trunks.

But if that one showing wasn’t enough, we get another one against Toppo where Goku states that his regular SSJ forms are totally useless against him whilst he was still suppressed.
After Goku makes that statement Toppo tells Goku that he’s wasting his time, and Goku responds by saying that once he uses SSJG it’s going to be an entirely different level than what was shown up until that point. That was shown to be entirely true as it didn’t just make Goku close the gap between him and suppressed Toppo, who up until this point was a goal post that his regular SSJ forms genuinely couldn’t make a dent in (they were referred to as useless), but instead it makes Goku climb well ahead of that Toppo, and Toppo has to respond by showing his true power too.

That Hit fight is obsolete or it’s being looked at wrong and maybe there are ways at looking at it for it to make more sense. I’m not a fan when the readers have to make sense out of that shit, but in universe SSJG is absolute magnitudes ahead of SSJ3, so there’s no way SSJ can be that close to Blue.

Yeah I think that conversation with Toppo pretty much shows the difference that I described. In the manga, the normal SSJ forms are treated like nothing, and the God forms are several magnitudes stronger. In the anime, their base is extremely strong, strong enough to fodderize SSJ3 Gotenks, entertain Beerus, compete with an improved Majin Buu, and beat Final Form Freeza. So again, in summation:

Manga: weak base, strong transformations,
Anime: strong base, weak transformations

It is just structured differently between mediums.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I read that chapter recently. Goku and Trunks fight in SS2, Whis says that Trunks has a slight edge, then this:

Goku: "Amazing. You're even stronger than Gohan was back then."

...implying a relatively small difference, which fits nicely with Trunks a few years earlier struggling to beat Dabra and needing Kaioshin's help. So yeah, I guess that confirms it. It seems that this chapter was very deliberately written to be a power guide given how out-of-nowhere these statements are, including comparisons to past levels and character clarifying what forms they're in. Which combined with Toriyama's level of supervision makes me strongly suspect that the whole state of affairs in the anime (last I checked anyway) is a possibly-retconned Toei embellishment.

Except that doesn't imply a small difference at all. It's not like Goku's saying "You're barely stronger than Trunks". The use of "Stronger" instead of "Far stronger" does makes it make a sever understatement, though.

And SSJ2 Gohan was the highest power both Goku and Trunks knew, so it's not like he could've compared Trunks to someone else.

Yeah I think that conversation with Toppo pretty much shows the difference that I described. In the manga, the normal SSJ forms are treated like nothing, and the God forms are several magnitudes stronger. In the anime, their base is extremely strong, strong enough to fodderize SSJ3 Gotenks, entertain Beerus, compete with an improved Majin Buu, and beat Final Form Freeza. So again, in summation:

Manga: weak base, strong transformations,
Anime: strong base, weak transformations

It is just structured differently between mediums.

Monster Zarbon was dimensions above Handsome Zarbon. Vegeta was several magnitudes stronger than Kui, and so was Goku with the Ginyu Force. Any of them are even close to being huge gaps numerically.

I really don't understand why some people try so hard to nerf power gaps in Z to fit Freeza > Base Saiyans PoVs and in Z mentioning the Goku vs Great Saiyaman filler but are eager to bloat things in the Manga despite statements implying the opposite...

[Bergamo]

I read that chapter recently. Goku and Trunks fight in SS2, Whis says that Trunks has a slight edge, then this:

Goku: "Amazing. You're even stronger than Gohan was back then."

...implying a relatively small difference, which fits nicely with Trunks a few years earlier struggling to beat Dabra and needing Kaioshin's help. So yeah, I guess that confirms it. It seems that this chapter was very deliberately written to be a power guide given how out-of-nowhere these statements are, including comparisons to past levels and character clarifying what forms they're in. Which combined with Toriyama's level of supervision makes me strongly suspect that the whole state of affairs in the anime (last I checked anyway) is a possibly-retconned Toei embellishment.

Except that doesn't imply a small difference at all. It's not like Goku's saying "You're barely stronger than Trunks". The use of "Stronger" instead of "Far stronger" does makes it make a sever understatement, though.

And SSJ2 Gohan was the highest power both Goku and Trunks knew, so it's not like he could've compared Trunks to someone else.

Yeah I think that conversation with Toppo pretty much shows the difference that I described. In the manga, the normal SSJ forms are treated like nothing, and the God forms are several magnitudes stronger. In the anime, their base is extremely strong, strong enough to fodderize SSJ3 Gotenks, entertain Beerus, compete with an improved Majin Buu, and beat Final Form Freeza. So again, in summation:

Manga: weak base, strong transformations,
Anime: strong base, weak transformations

It is just structured differently between mediums.

Monster Zarbon was dimensions above Handsome Zarbon. Vegeta was several magnitudes stronger than Kui, and so was Goku with the Ginyu Force. Any of them are even close to being huge gaps numerically.

I really don't understand why some people try so hard to nerf power gaps in Z to fit Freeza > Base Saiyans PoVs and in Z mentioning the Goku vs Great Saiyaman filler but are eager to bloat things in the Manga despite statements implying the opposite...

Vegeta was 1.33 times stronger than Cui. He was not dimensions above him. The gap was the same as Kaioken x3 Goku vs Vegeta. It's a lot, but Vegeta was able to overcome it and make Goku use KK x4.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Vegeta was 1.33 times stronger than Cui. He was not dimensions above him. The gap was the same as Kaioken x3 Goku vs Vegeta. It's a lot, but Vegeta was able to overcome it and make Goku use KK x4.

Their performances would imply otherwise though, with Vegeta blowing Kui like he's a firework and Goku beating Vegeta's ass around in a similiar fashion to Toppo beating SSJ3 Goku.

[ekrolo2]

Vegeta was 1.33 times stronger than Cui. He was not dimensions above him. The gap was the same as Kaioken x3 Goku vs Vegeta. It's a lot, but Vegeta was able to overcome it and make Goku use KK x4.

Their performances would imply otherwise though, with Vegeta blowing Kui like he's a firework and Goku beating Vegeta's ass around in a similiar fashion to Toppo beating SSJ3 Goku.

The numbers however don't lie. Vegeta is at 34k while Cui is 18k and Vegeta annihilated him thanks to that gap. Hell, he wrecks Dodoria and regular Zarbon too and they're much closer to Vegeta in power.

[ssj3kakarot]

SSJG being dimensions above SSJ3 doesn't require him to be 10x or so above that. Toppo ragdolling SSJ3 Goku around looks a lot like Goku ragdolling Jeice and Burta at the same time, and that wasn't a multifold gap at all (Goku was 60k to their 40k, a 1.5x difference).

How is the Hit fight being looked at on the wrong way? What other ways could we look at it?

Goku's power level was 90k, not 60k. Still, it doesn't make the difference much more. 2.25

[Sora Saiyan]

Edit: Clicked post to early.

[Sora Saiyan]

Goku was equal to Future Trunks in SSJ3 (8x SSJ) yet could Blitz and one shot him super duper easily in SSJG, plus SSJG being much stronger than SSJ Black pre zenkais show that it’s a huge increase. Remember that base Black was waaaay ahead of FPSSJ Trunks.

But if that one showing wasn’t enough, we get another one against Toppo where Goku states that his regular SSJ forms are totally useless against him whilst he was still suppressed.
After Goku makes that statement Toppo tells Goku that he’s wasting his time, and Goku responds by saying that once he uses SSJG it’s going to be an entirely different level than what was shown up until that point. That was shown to be entirely true as it didn’t just make Goku close the gap between him and suppressed Toppo, who up until this point was a goal post that his regular SSJ forms genuinely couldn’t make a dent in (they were referred to as useless), but instead it makes Goku climb well ahead of that Toppo, and Toppo has to respond by showing his true power too.

That Hit fight is obsolete or it’s being looked at wrong and maybe there are ways at looking at it for it to make more sense. I’m not a fan when the readers have to make sense out of that shit, but in universe SSJG is absolute magnitudes ahead of SSJ3, so there’s no way SSJ can be that close to Blue.

SSJG being dimensions above SSJ3 doesn't require him to be 10x or so above that. Toppo ragdolling SSJ3 Goku around looks a lot like Goku ragdolling Jeice and Burta at the same time, and that wasn't a multifold gap at all (Goku was 60k to their 40k, a 1.5x difference).

How is the Hit fight being looked at on the wrong way? What other ways could we look at it?

That Jeice and Burta fight doesn’t work though, in this instance we have certain powers shown prior doing absolutely nothing, so in this instance we we actually shown that SSJG must be well over what was shown up until that point. Here’s a rough breakdown.

The Toppo fight had clearly shown that an 8x multiplier was called useless, and by being called useless basically stated to not make a dent in catching the goal post that was Toppo. That’s just how insane Toppos power was there.
For Goku to say that SSJG is an entirely different level than what was shown up until it’s outright stated due to that, that it’s well over the 8x SSJ3, as everything shown up until then which was the power up from SSJ-3 = useless, yet SSJG = entirely different level. The main points in that fight are the 8x multiplier being referred to as useless, and SSJG being referred to as an entirely different level. It wasn’t even that SSJG was shown to be just a bit over that multiplier, but it was so far over that multiplier that it didn’t just close the gap on Toppo when an 8x multiplier couldn’t make any ground on his power, but instead it made Toppo reveal his true power on top of that. So Goku went straight over suppressed Toppos power and instead matched his true power. It’s clealry miles ahead of SSJ3. So from that we know SSJG >> SSJ3x8 It’s really super clear in that fight. You can’t call an 8x multiplier totally useless and then think that doing the same thing to your power again is enough to call it an entirely different level. Goku isn’t that dumb, and he clearly wasn’t as it was an entirely different level.
SSJG = TP Toppo > Surpressed Toppo > Useless x8 > SSJ3 (useless)

Then like the first point I made, SSJG is well over SSJ Black and Base Black is well over SSJ3 Goku. It’s all there to see that the multiplier for God is astronomical.

[PFM18]

SSJG being dimensions above SSJ3 doesn't require him to be 10x or so above that. Toppo ragdolling SSJ3 Goku around looks a lot like Goku ragdolling Jeice and Burta at the same time, and that wasn't a multifold gap at all (Goku was 60k to their 40k, a 1.5x difference).

How is the Hit fight being looked at on the wrong way? What other ways could we look at it?

Goku's power level was 90k, not 60k. Still, it doesn't make the difference much more. 2.25

He wasnt using his full-power until he powered up against Ginyu. Until then he was clocked at 60K

Goku (suppressed) = 60K
Goku (full-power) = 90K
Goku Kaioken = 180K

And 2.25 is a WAY bigger difference than 1.5

I've believed the anime also retconned the events from the first two arcs since I saw Piccolo vs Frost and later Trunks vs Goku.

While Powercreep is a big part of this franchise, it seems beyond belief even for this franchise that Piccolo and Trunks in the anime (pre SS Rage) could smoke Z and even Goku from BoG

Yeah there is no real evidence of a retcon.

During Piccolo vs Frost, not only was Piccolo still inferior in power, but he was fighting a weakened Frost that could barely stand up just a moment prior. As we saw with Golden Freeza and Jiren, the sky is the limit as far as the difference between somebody's full-power and their max power in a weakened state like Frost was here. Either way, even if Piccolo was as strong as Frost(he isn't) then there's still no implication that Piccolo could "smoke" SSG Goku from BoG.

Future Trunks being really strong does not contradict anything that was established previously as far as the "God boost" or anything like that. He had been training for the previous 14 years including constantly being pushed to fight Goku Black during all of this time.

[ankokudaishogun]

Question: source on Blue being 50 God?

Because we know Blue has different properties than Super Saiyan(It's All About Ki Control(TM)), so nothing keeps it from being a weaker powerup

[MoscoSama]

Yeah there is no real evidence of a retcon.

During Piccolo vs Frost, not only was Piccolo still inferior in power, but he was fighting a weakened Frost that could barely stand up just a moment prior. As we saw with Golden Freeza and Jiren, the sky is the limit as far as the difference between somebody's full-power and their max power in a weakened state like Frost was here. Either way, even if Piccolo was as strong as Frost(he isn't) then there's still no implication that Piccolo could "smoke" SSG Goku from BoG.

Future Trunks being really strong does not contradict anything that was established previously as far as the "God boost" or anything like that. He had been training for the previous 14 years including constantly being pushed to fight Goku Black during all of this time.

If Frost was so weak to where Piccolo had a chance against him then why did a fresh Vegeta go ssj to knock him out instead of just using base?
If you want to argue the risk of poison then why not just go ssj2 or even ssb and completely mitigate any risk?
Also Trunks trained non stop for a decade + and still struggled to defeat Dabura who was Perfect Cell level. One year of mostly getting his ass kicked by a Goku black who couldn't even access goku's power and hiding somehow pushed Trunks from Cell level to above Buu arc Vegetto?

[Marlowe89]

Question: source on Blue being 50 God?

Because we know Blue has different properties than Super Saiyan(It's All About Ki Control(TM)), so nothing keeps it from being a weaker powerup

None. The manga effectively shows that Blue is less than a 10-fold boost from God. In the anime, base Kefla is relative to God while Super Saiyan Kefla is relative to Blue Kaioken.

It's just another speculative idea being passed as a fact with no substantial basis or support.

[PFM18]

Question: source on Blue being 50 God?

Because we know Blue has different properties than Super Saiyan(It's All About Ki Control(TM)), so nothing keeps it from being a weaker powerup

It is essentially the Super Saiyan version of SSG and it appears that from SSG->SSB fighting Kefla's Base->SSJ that they are the same increase. This is anime-only though. In the manga though we do know that it must be less than 10x.

[MoscoSama]

Question: source on Blue being 50 God?

Because we know Blue has different properties than Super Saiyan(It's All About Ki Control(TM)), so nothing keeps it from being a weaker powerup

It is essentially the Super Saiyan version of SSG and it appears that from SSG->SSB fighting Kefla's Base->SSJ that they are the same increase. This is anime-only though. In the manga though we do know that it must be less than 10x.

Kefla was using kale's super saiyan transformation which doesn't necessarily give the same boost as the golden hair one + goku even said kefla kept getting powerup after powerup so her multiplier wasn't static, hence why ssb goku went from being able to throw hands with her to ssbkkx20 goku getting knocked out in 1 kick

[Bergamo]

I'm really tired of people acting like Super Saiyan forms have an objective multiplier. If Goku got his power multiplied by 50 on Namek, then he would have still gotten wrecked by Frieza, because his Ki had shrank to a fraction of his full power and Frieza was fighting at 100%.