Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

7 years of training between Cell and Buu seemed to have brought negligible results. If anything the gap between him and the saiyans got bigger (at the Cell Games his fight with the Cell Juniors implied he wasn't too far off from SS Vegeta, yet by the Buu arc he's far weaker than Shin who is himself weaker than the Super Saiyans). I don't think Piccolo's training is doing much at this point.

Anyway, upon re-reading the manga again more closely, I definitely think that my earlier theory about Vegeta's SSG/SSB switching technique being equal in power yet inferior in speed to Goku's CSSB is a valid, even likely, interpretation. They do
after all outright state that both techniques are just the user exerting the full power of SSB without it dropping (which apparently it does pretty much immediately after the first few seconds, given Beerus's reference to quickly fading "explosive power" in his and Vegeta's sparring match). The brief curb-stomp Fused Zamasu has against SSB Goku and Vegeta also places heavy emphasis on his speed (he knocks Goku and Vegeta to the ground before they even know he moved, and he says they're "not even moving" compared to him). Which would be the reason that CSSB was able to fight on par with Fused Zamasu while Vegeta himself admitted he wouldn't be able to do so: because his technique only utilizes SSB's power for attacks, rather than all movements, Fused Zamasu would still be untouchable to him and totally dominate Vegeta in a fight.

Training gains have never been consistent and you know it.

Piccolo trained 5 years to kill Goku and only increased his power by a few units but then the later year he almost got a 9 times boost.

In any case I follow the anime so Piccolo did surpass Shin and can already solo Z with maybe Vegetto as an exception.

[RandomGuy96]

7 years of training between Cell and Buu seemed to have brought negligible results. If anything the gap between him and the saiyans got bigger (at the Cell Games his fight with the Cell Juniors implied he wasn't too far off from SS Vegeta, yet by the Buu arc he's far weaker than Shin who is himself weaker than the Super Saiyans). I don't think Piccolo's training is doing much at this point.

Anyway, upon re-reading the manga again more closely, I definitely think that my earlier theory about Vegeta's SSG/SSB switching technique being equal in power yet inferior in speed to Goku's CSSB is a valid, even likely, interpretation. They do
after all outright state that both techniques are just the user exerting the full power of SSB without it dropping (which apparently it does pretty much immediately after the first few seconds, given Beerus's reference to quickly fading "explosive power" in his and Vegeta's sparring match). The brief curb-stomp Fused Zamasu has against SSB Goku and Vegeta also places heavy emphasis on his speed (he knocks Goku and Vegeta to the ground before they even know he moved, and he says they're "not even moving" compared to him). Which would be the reason that CSSB was able to fight on par with Fused Zamasu while Vegeta himself admitted he wouldn't be able to do so: because his technique only utilizes SSB's power for attacks, rather than all movements, Fused Zamasu would still be untouchable to him and totally dominate Vegeta in a fight.

Training gains have never been consistent and you know it.

Except they generally have stayed consistent to the extent that they don't break the plot (Freeza in the movie 15 excepted), and when training gains start getting out of proportion, there's always something to justify what changes between this training session and the last one. "If I try I can find one instance dumber than my fan fiction" shouldn't be a goal or crutch to justify a poor argument.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I'd say that Gohan and Piccolo are our best comparison right now, at least for the anime.

The two have basically been considered equals without any form powerups, and Gohan's showing of his improved Ultimate against SS2 Goku showcases the raw power even the normal forms of the Saiyans possess.

[Jesus-is Lord]

7 years of training between Cell and Buu seemed to have brought negligible results. If anything the gap between him and the saiyans got bigger (at the Cell Games his fight with the Cell Juniors implied he wasn't too far off from SS Vegeta, yet by the Buu arc he's far weaker than Shin who is himself weaker than the Super Saiyans). I don't think Piccolo's training is doing much at this point.

Anyway, upon re-reading the manga again more closely, I definitely think that my earlier theory about Vegeta's SSG/SSB switching technique being equal in power yet inferior in speed to Goku's CSSB is a valid, even likely, interpretation. They do
after all outright state that both techniques are just the user exerting the full power of SSB without it dropping (which apparently it does pretty much immediately after the first few seconds, given Beerus's reference to quickly fading "explosive power" in his and Vegeta's sparring match). The brief curb-stomp Fused Zamasu has against SSB Goku and Vegeta also places heavy emphasis on his speed (he knocks Goku and Vegeta to the ground before they even know he moved, and he says they're "not even moving" compared to him). Which would be the reason that CSSB was able to fight on par with Fused Zamasu while Vegeta himself admitted he wouldn't be able to do so: because his technique only utilizes SSB's power for attacks, rather than all movements, Fused Zamasu would still be untouchable to him and totally dominate Vegeta in a fight.

Training gains have never been consistent and you know it.

Piccolo trained 5 years to kill Goku and only increased his power by a few units but then the later year he almost got a 9 times boost.

In any case I follow the anime so Piccolo did surpass Shin and can already solo Z with maybe Vegetto as an exception.

Piccolo in the anime can solo Z? What? Based on what evidence? Piccolo got knocked out by a bug, he can't solo diddly sqaut. And the anime is inconsistent with piccolos power just like it's inconsistent with power levels in general. Piccolo was shown to be on par with ssj2 gohan somehow, but yet couldn't even stand up to base goku and gohan a few episodes later. Plus piccolo showed no impressive feats in the tourney to show why he's above perfect cel much less all of Z.

[ZombieVito]

7 years of training between Cell and Buu seemed to have brought negligible results. If anything the gap between him and the saiyans got bigger (at the Cell Games his fight with the Cell Juniors implied he wasn't too far off from SS Vegeta, yet by the Buu arc he's far weaker than Shin who is himself weaker than the Super Saiyans). I don't think Piccolo's training is doing much at this point.

Anyway, upon re-reading the manga again more closely, I definitely think that my earlier theory about Vegeta's SSG/SSB switching technique being equal in power yet inferior in speed to Goku's CSSB is a valid, even likely, interpretation. They do
after all outright state that both techniques are just the user exerting the full power of SSB without it dropping (which apparently it does pretty much immediately after the first few seconds, given Beerus's reference to quickly fading "explosive power" in his and Vegeta's sparring match). The brief curb-stomp Fused Zamasu has against SSB Goku and Vegeta also places heavy emphasis on his speed (he knocks Goku and Vegeta to the ground before they even know he moved, and he says they're "not even moving" compared to him). Which would be the reason that CSSB was able to fight on par with Fused Zamasu while Vegeta himself admitted he wouldn't be able to do so: because his technique only utilizes SSB's power for attacks, rather than all movements, Fused Zamasu would still be untouchable to him and totally dominate Vegeta in a fight.

Training gains have never been consistent and you know it.

Piccolo trained 5 years to kill Goku and only increased his power by a few units but then the later year he almost got a 9 times boost.

In any case I follow the anime so Piccolo did surpass Shin and can already solo Z with maybe Vegetto as an exception.

Piccolo in the anime can solo Z? What? Based on what evidence? Piccolo got knocked out by a bug, he can't solo diddly sqaut. And the anime is inconsistent with piccolos power just like it's inconsistent with power levels in general. Piccolo was shown to be on par with ssj2 gohan somehow, but yet couldn't even stand up to base goku and gohan a few episodes later. Plus piccolo showed no impressive feats in the tourney to show why he's above perfect cel much less all of Z.

Yes, he can solo Z with maybe the exception of Vegetto.

He's 100 times stronger than a base Gohan that was around the level of Good Boo.

No version of Boo is touching him.

Base Goku doesn't have to be stronger than him to endure the attack.

And lol at the Damon comment. Just because he's small does mean he's weak... That's a silly thing to say. In any case he got Piccolo off guard.

Base Gohan is a lot stronger in the ToP thanks to E90.

[PFM18]

Piccolo was shown to be on par with ssj2 gohan somehow, but yet couldn't even stand up to base goku and gohan a few episodes later.

There's literally nothing inconsistent about this. Base Goku by this point is massively stronger than his Z self to the point where he could easily crush anyone from DBZ, and so him beating SSJ2 Gohan and then losing to Base Goku is not inconsistent whatsoever. To say that they are inconsistent implies that if Piccolo can beat SSJ2 Gohan, he should be able to beat Base Goku which is certainly not the case. Gohan, in typical Gohan esque fashion, received a massive power boost from his training with Piccolo to be on par with his father.

This is a perfect example of people complaining about inconsistent power scaling when actually it is simply a result of their failure to understand the material.

Training gains have never been consistent and you know it.

Piccolo trained 5 years to kill Goku and only increased his power by a few units but then the later year he almost got a 9 times boost.

In any case I follow the anime so Piccolo did surpass Shin and can already solo Z with maybe Vegetto as an exception.

Piccolo in the anime can solo Z? What? Based on what evidence? Piccolo got knocked out by a bug, he can't solo diddly sqaut. And the anime is inconsistent with piccolos power just like it's inconsistent with power levels in general. Piccolo was shown to be on par with ssj2 gohan somehow, but yet couldn't even stand up to base goku and gohan a few episodes later. Plus piccolo showed no impressive feats in the tourney to show why he's above perfect cel much less all of Z.

Yes, he can solo Z with maybe the exception of Vegetto.

He's 100 times stronger than a base Gohan that was around the level of Good Boo.

No version of Boo is touching him.

Base Goku doesn't have to be stronger than him to endure the attack.

And lol at the Damon comment. Just because he's small does mean he's weak... That's a silly thing to say. In any case he got Piccolo off guard.

Base Gohan is a lot stronger in the ToP thanks to E90.

How do you figure that this Base Gohan was comparable to Good Boo? Just because of his fight with the Trio?

[Jesus-is Lord]

Training gains have never been consistent and you know it.

Piccolo trained 5 years to kill Goku and only increased his power by a few units but then the later year he almost got a 9 times boost.

In any case I follow the anime so Piccolo did surpass Shin and can already solo Z with maybe Vegetto as an exception.

Piccolo in the anime can solo Z? What? Based on what evidence? Piccolo got knocked out by a bug, he can't solo diddly sqaut. And the anime is inconsistent with piccolos power just like it's inconsistent with power levels in general. Piccolo was shown to be on par with ssj2 gohan somehow, but yet couldn't even stand up to base goku and gohan a few episodes later. Plus piccolo showed no impressive feats in the tourney to show why he's above perfect cel much less all of Z.

Yes, he can solo Z with maybe the exception of Vegetto.

He's 100 times stronger than a base Gohan that was around the level of Good Boo.

No version of Boo is touching him.

Base Goku doesn't have to be stronger than him to endure the attack.

And lol at the Damon comment. Just because he's small does mean he's weak... That's a silly thing to say. In any case he got Piccolo off guard.

Base Gohan is a lot stronger in the ToP thanks to E90.

Base gohan isn't good buu level. Full powered basil isn't even good buu level and we can better assume base basil is even stronger then levender hence why levender relies more on poison instead of power. Plus on top of that, base gohan was weaker then levender. And even then base gohan got rekt by a fodder yadrat, got rekt by some mutant virus infected actor that was so pitifully weak goku, vegeta etc didn't even bother to show up at the city. Gohan is a joke, so piccolo fighting him in ssj2 dosent mean anything. Super only takes place 3 years after Buu once ToP start. Piccolo isn't that much stronger that much stronger then his buu self. He did barley anything this tournament except stand around with his arms cross and interacted with basically no one except gohan and overcame his "depression" against the universe 6 namekians. Piccolo showed no character, had ample of character regression and had no impressive feats to show why he was even strong except when he went toe-to-toe against a casual trained ssj2 gohan in which ended up getting contradicted later on (probably by a differnt writer) as piccolo wasn't even on par with base gohan and goku. Did I forget to mention how piccolo was showcased in RoF to be weaker (much weaker) then an utterly un trained gohan who struggled going ssj (this gohan is probably a JOKE compared to his rusty buu saga self that still could use mssj)?

Piccolo is fodder in super. He's at max super perfect cell tier.

[Jesus-is Lord]

Piccolo was shown to be on par with ssj2 gohan somehow, but yet couldn't even stand up to base goku and gohan a few episodes later.

There's literally nothing inconsistent about this. Base Goku by this point is massively stronger than his Z self to the point where he could easily crush anyone from DBZ, and so him beating SSJ2 Gohan and then losing to Base Goku is not inconsistent whatsoever. To say that they are inconsistent implies that if Piccolo can beat SSJ2 Gohan, he should be able to beat Base Goku which is certainly not the case. Gohan, in typical Gohan esque fashion, received a massive power boost from his training with Piccolo to be on par with his father.

This is a perfect example of people complaining about inconsistent power scaling when actually it is simply a result of their failure to understand the material.

Piccolo in the anime can solo Z? What? Based on what evidence? Piccolo got knocked out by a bug, he can't solo diddly sqaut. And the anime is inconsistent with piccolos power just like it's inconsistent with power levels in general. Piccolo was shown to be on par with ssj2 gohan somehow, but yet couldn't even stand up to base goku and gohan a few episodes later. Plus piccolo showed no impressive feats in the tourney to show why he's above perfect cel much less all of Z.

Yes, he can solo Z with maybe the exception of Vegetto.

He's 100 times stronger than a base Gohan that was around the level of Good Boo.

No version of Boo is touching him.

Base Goku doesn't have to be stronger than him to endure the attack.

And lol at the Damon comment. Just because he's small does mean he's weak... That's a silly thing to say. In any case he got Piccolo off guard.

Base Gohan is a lot stronger in the ToP thanks to E90.

How do you figure that this Base Gohan was comparable to Good Boo? Just because of his fight with the Trio?

A lot of things to dissect here, what solid evidence do you have that base goku can solo Z? Base goku needed andorid 18 help in defeating a fodder pride trooper? Is this pride trooper how above super vegito? Lol. Is ribirane now as strong as super vegito? Also Kuririn was able to at least fight well against base goku. So was Roshi. Bergamo was too, and you're telling me bergamo has strength differnce with basil of less then GOOD BUU (not even Orginal fat buu) to being far above super vegito tier? Even base cabba is as strong as base goku or near in power and you're telling me chicken wings cabba is AS STRONG AS SUPER VEGITO? Looool.you really think that's what toei is trying to showcase. You really think if super vegito came to super, toei would show him getting stomped by guys like meggetta, BASE CABBA, frost, ribirane, Roshi etc? Give me a break. It's obvious base goku isn't as strong as you make him based on all the evidence of the show (though it's hard to tell since the show sucks pure garbage in this department). The point of power scailing is to figure out how strong the authors and writer intended this person to be and shown, power scailing is not making up arbitrary claims based on one sided evidence to fit your amusement.

And you seem to forget BASE GOHAN was as strong as base goku and piccolo beforehand was on par with ssj2 gohan but now is not even base gohan (and goku tier)?

So you're telling me that gohan in base grew 100x strknger AT LEAST in a span of like 9 hours training in the woods with fodder piccolo with no special training AND ON TOP OF THAT it was never emphasized by the show itself that gohan grew that strong? Lol. Yeah bud, that dosent make sense. If gohan received such a boost in that short time it would have been shown by the show. The only thing that can be explained is BAD POWER SCAILING. The anime of super does this all the time which is why it sucks in that respect.

Furthermore, your whole "base goku is far stronger then anything in Z therefore gohan just got a massive boost" is contradicted by episode 75. When goku had to USE SSJ to fight an rusty GREAT SAYAINMAN gohan in ssj. Hahahah. And before you say goku was holding back, NOPE. Because toei themselves actually did use power scailing when base goku had to use a giant and heavy suit to fight Kuririn which wasn't even a challenge for him. So if goku went through that trouble of really holding back and limiting himself, why would he use ssj on someone weaker then his base form when his whole premise of fighting in the first place WAS TO HAVE A CHALLENGE?

Think I made it clear, base goku can't solo Z, and supers anime has terrible power scaling that's worse then even GT. Far worse might I add.

Edit: got more to say, in the ToP it was shown BASE kefla (formed by the fusion of FODDER base kale and caulifa who's weaker then base goku) formed a fusion that STOMPED SSJ GOD GOKU (if he was "tired" he wouldn't have the energy to push into ssj blue and kaioken and then have a UI omen that was stronger then previous UI omen). Since we know BoG takes place AT MAX a year after (it was kinda implied in the anime and shown directly in the manga so it's facts that bog takes place that much after Buu), we can conclude goku and vegeta aren't that much stronger then their buu self. This means that base vegito in Z could STOMP SSJ GOD goku, and super vegito is pure over-kill. If we take that into consideration, you're telling me that base goku is heads and shoulders above what we was in BoG Ssj god? BASE GOKU? By that logic, base trunks is also stronger then ssj god in BoG and super vegito. Well, if that were so why did goku imply he'd never reach god status on his own training but yet ransoms like gohan, android 17, trunks in BASE all did it in a relative short amount of time? And why did whis tell vegeta you'll never reach god level with normal earth training but yet base trunks, gohan and 17 did as well. Even some random girl out a spell on Roshi and made him be as strong or fight well with base goku. But you're saying goku can SOLO not beat but SOLO all of Z? When z can be shown to be already on god tier levels? Lol. I think I can comfortably say you've been throughly DEBUNKED. Have a nice day.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

No, because from the second Vegeta powered up into SSB, he would immediately start losing massive amounts of energy.

I think you're overrating the stamina issues a bit. If they were so severe to a point he already loses ton of Ki on the moment he transforms, even using SSJB in bursts like he did vs Black would still exhaust him.

Plus there's a very basic rule about power he learned in Z:
Vegeta: “When my battle power rises, it means that my speed raises too.”

Speed raises along with power, unless it's stated otherwise. As far as i'm aware it's never stated Vegeta is exclusively tapping into the brute strength of SSJB. In fact, the opposite is stated: Black acknowledges Vegeta is faster than before, despite seeing SSJB Vegeta at his peak twice.

7 years of training between Cell and Buu seemed to have brought negligible results. If anything the gap between him and the saiyans got bigger (at the Cell Games his fight with the Cell Juniors implied he wasn't too far off from SS Vegeta, yet by the Buu arc he's far weaker than Shin who is himself weaker than the Super Saiyans). I don't think Piccolo's training is doing much at this point.

He held his own with Frost, who albeit weakened was still stronger than Base Vegeta. So yeah, Piccolo's mountain training did some wonders to him when Toyotaro wanted him to be relevant.

In that case having now finished the volume then I'd say there is no super strong Base form in the manga. If you also consider Zamasu to be strong for a Supreme Kai but not ridiculously so then I think the order of things is meant to go

Super Saiyan Goku Black (After Zenkai boost)
Super Saiyan Blue Goku | Vegeta
Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta
Super Saiyan Goku Black
Base Goku Black
Super Saiyan 3 Goku | Super Saiyan 2 Trunks
Dabura
Super Saiyan Goku | Vegeta | Trunks
Zamasu
Shin
Base Goku | Vegeta | Trunks

When Goku fought Zamasu he powered down to a Super Saiyan which would mean Zamasu would be weaker than that but stronger than his base strength.

Zamasu could also freeze Super Saiyan Goku whereas Shin couldn't freeze Majin Buu. Obviously Zamasu is stronger than Shin but again if he's not overwhelming so then it would make sense.

By the time Trunks traveled back in time he was already far stronger than when he fought Dabra. Dabra shouldn't even be in this list considering how fodder he should be by now.

Plus even Z Base Goku and Vegeta stomp Shin, let alone their Super selves, who can arguably solo Z. Or at least get to the Boo Arc top tiers.

[ZombieVito]

How do you figure that this Base Gohan was comparable to Good Boo? Just because of his fight with the Trio?

Well yeah. The Trio isn't worlds apart for each other and Gohan was able to beat Lavender up even while being blind and unable to sense his Ki.

Granted he could still be weaker than Boo but he should easily be Boo arc SS2 tier in base. Multiply that by 100 and I can safely say Piccolo will beat any version of Boo up from Z.

[Bergamo]

Why do people think that some random guides that state 50 times-2 times-4 times for the Super Saiyan Transformations makes it concrete fact? The only canon power multiplier is kaioken.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Why do people think that some random guides that state 50 times-2 times-4 times for the Super Saiyan Transformations makes it concrete fact? The only canon power multiplier is kaioken.

I think it's mainly because it gives us a concrete set of numbers to work with and makes it easier to wrap our heads around how to better scale things beyond generalities.

[Bergamo]

Why do people think that some random guides that state 50 times-2 times-4 times for the Super Saiyan Transformations makes it concrete fact? The only canon power multiplier is kaioken.

I think it's mainly because it gives us a concrete set of numbers to work with and makes it easier to wrap our heads around how to better scale things beyond generalities.

I personally prefer a
( x character<y character<z character ) model rather than arbitrary large numbers.

[PFM18]

Why do people think that some random guides that state 50 times-2 times-4 times for the Super Saiyan Transformations makes it concrete fact? The only canon power multiplier is kaioken.

I think it's mainly because it gives us a concrete set of numbers to work with and makes it easier to wrap our heads around how to better scale things beyond generalities.

I personally prefer a
( x character<y character<z character ) model rather than arbitrary large numbers.

I'm more quantitative than that. It isn't entirely consistent with things but I prefer to have it remembered quantitatively.

[PFM18]

A lot of things to dissect here, what solid evidence do you have that base goku can solo Z?

The entire series portrays it in such a way that it has become obvious that Goku could crush everyone in Z without transforming.

-During BoG, it was stated and made clear that SSJ Goku=SSG and since SSG>SSJ3 Vegetto, his Base is naturally above everything in Z outside of SSJ Vegetto during that time.(He didn't surpass SSJ Vegetto probably until a bit later) But he definitely surpassed Buuhan in Base immediately upon the ritual running out in which his SSJ~SSG. This is obviously the most prominent one Goku getting an astronomical boost was a significant plot point.
-During RoF, First Form Freeza dominates everybody and then Goku is on par with Final Form Freeza. Final Form Freeza if the Namek arc is anything to go by is at a minimum a hundred times stronger than his first form. Therefore, Base Goku is at a minimum 100x stronger than everybody else. Whether it be SSJ Gohan who's Base had surpassed Piccolo, or SSJ Gotenks, Goku was 100+ times stronger than them in Base.
-Base Goku is strong enough to entertain Beerus in the Monaka suit fighting him. (at a minimum this makes him >>>>>>> his BoG SSJ3 self who literally got flicked and got knocoked out)
-Copy Vegeta completely dominates SSJ3 Gotenks who is identical to Vegeta.
-Base Goku doesn't even appear to be trying and yet he is competing with Majin Buu who had been training and had gained a significant amount of power. Goku is fighting him in Base and is impressed with Buu's improvements as though he would have stomped him had he not improved.

Base goku needed andorid 18 help in defeating a fodder pride trooper? Is this pride trooper how above super vegito?

Well, Tupper caught Goku off-guard so it isn't really indicative of his power very much. Either way, Tupper being stronger than SSJ Vegetto wouldn't contradict anything especially since his colleagues are as strong/stronger than SSB who is massively stronger than SSJ Vegetto.

Also Kuririn was able to at least fight well against base goku

No indication Goku was using his full-power so nothing conclusive here.

So was Roshi

Roshi's ki flared up when the lady was controlling him and as we have seen with any time this ever happens, this indicates an associated increase in power. So if anything this would mean a powered up Roshi fought Goku and wouldn't say much about Roshi's actual power. Either way, he certainly didn't seem to be fighting seriously anyway.

Bergamo was too

What? Bergamo just took Goku's power as he took hits. Nothing indicating what you are implying whatsoever.

Even base cabba is as strong as base goku or near in power and you're telling me chicken wings cabba is AS STRONG AS SUPER VEGITO?

Yeah around SSJ Vegetto. I see no reason why not. Goku in BoG, training with Whis, and RoF, was portrayed as being massively stronger to the point where his SSJ by this point should be far stronger than SSG BoG, so to say Base Cabba who can compete with his Base is on par with SSJ Vegetto is not irrational. Nothing contradicting this notion whatsoever. So it is simply your speculation with nothing supporting it saying Vegetto can't be about Cabab level.

You really think if super vegito came to super, toei would show him getting stomped by guys like meggetta, BASE CABBA, frost, ribirane, Roshi etc?

I don't particularly care about what a hypothetical Toei showcase of DBZ Suepr Vegetto would yield. It is purely hypothetical and means nothing objectively speaking.

And you seem to forget BASE GOHAN was as strong as base goku and piccolo beforehand was on par with ssj2 gohan but now is not even base gohan (and goku tier)?

Base Gohan may be on par with Base Goku after his training. This doesn't refute anything though.

So you're telling me that gohan in base grew 100x strknger AT LEAST in a span of like 9 hours training in the woods with fodder piccolo with no special training AND ON TOP OF THAT it was never emphasized by the show itself that gohan grew that strong?

Getting giant power boosts is literally Gohan's character. Him getting a large boost should surpise absolutely nobody that is what he's been doing throughout the entire franchise'. It most definitely was emphasized in the show itself I have no idea how you came to this conclusion. They literally had an exposition discussing Gohan reaching new levels of power and had an episode dedicated to showing that Gohan had become on the same level of his father.

If gohan received such a boost in that short time it would have been shown by the show.

It was. It was an entire plot point.

Furthermore, your whole "base goku is far stronger then anything in Z therefore gohan just got a massive boost" is contradicted by episode 75.

It really isn't. Even if we for some reason disregard that this is a gag scene that shouldn't be taken seriously, this was a casual sparring match on a farm. No reason to think this was a serious fight from this evidence. Even if we disregard those too, Goku literally admitted to holding back during that fight. It is literally made abundantly clear Goku was holding back.

why would he use ssj on someone weaker then his base form when his whole premise of fighting in the first place WAS TO HAVE A CHALLENGE?

We don't know how much Goku was holding back so we can't really draw much from this scene. The best we can conclude is that Base Goku<SSJ Gohan and even then that is a shaky conclusion.

Think I made it clear, base goku can't solo Z

You didn't make that clear at all whatsoever. The only real "support" you used was the scenes associated with Gohan and that was simply a result of you not understanding what was happening as I explained above. The rest was just unfounded speculation.

and supers anime has terrible power scaling that's worse then even GT. Far worse might I add.

You brought up a grand total of exactly 0 inconsistencies in power scaling and 0 examples of bad power scaling. Sure, they exist in DBS, but you didn't bring up anything inconsistent or contradictory whatsoever. Additionally, you most certainly did not show in any way that the power scaling in GT is better. GT's power scaling is a complete train wreck with blatantly contradictory statements.

got more to say, in the ToP it was shown BASE kefla (formed by the fusion of FODDER base kale and caulifa who's weaker then base goku) formed a fusion that STOMPED SSJ GOD GOKU (if he was "tired" he wouldn't have the energy to push into ssj blue and kaioken and then have a UI omen that was stronger then previous UI omen). Since we know BoG takes place AT MAX a year after (it was kinda implied in the anime and shown directly in the manga so it's facts that bog takes place that much after Buu), we can conclude goku and vegeta aren't that much stronger then their buu self.

I honestly have no idea what you are even trying to say here. What the hell does Kefla have to do with Goku and Vegeta not being that much stronger than their buu selves. In Vegeta's case he was literally explicitly stated to be MUCH stronger than his Buu self. You are simply confused on the matter.

This means that base vegito in Z could STOMP SSJ GOD goku

What? This is ridiculous. No reason to believe this whatsoever.

we take that into consideration, you're telling me that base goku is heads and shoulders above what we was in BoG Ssj god?

Nope. I didn't say that but based on your faulty logic that would have to be the case in order for Base Vegetto>SSG God BoG to be possible. Of course, the latter statement is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in a while.

Well, if that were so why did goku imply he'd never reach god status on his own training but yet ransoms like gohan, android 17, trunks in BASE all did it in a relative short amount of time? And why did whis tell vegeta you'll never reach god level with normal earth training but yet base trunks, gohan and 17 did as well. Even some random girl out a spell on Roshi and made him be as strong or fight well with base goku. But you're saying goku can SOLO not beat but SOLO all of Z? When z can be shown to be already on god tier levels?

All of this is based on your previous conclusions that are not supported in any way. So all of this can be reasonably disregarded.

Lol. I think I can comfortably say you've been throughly DEBUNKED. Have a nice day.

Nope. You didn't successively deconstruct a single thing I said. You just simply do not understand the power scaling in the DBS anime at all.

[Skar]

I have to agree with Jesus-is Lord. I can't wrap my head around how Cabba, a Saiyan kid who can't even turn SSJ, is supposed to be as strong as SSJ Vegetto. That's why I think they might've retconned Saiyan Beyond God and that Goku and Vegeta reverted back to their regular pre-BoG base forms. There some discrepancies but it might have to do with miscommunication among the anime staff. Just think about this for a second. This is just their training since the Freeza saga:

Vegeta: three years to unlock/train in SSJ + two years in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber + seven years of intense high gravity training

Goku: three years training with Gohan and Piccolo + one year with Gohan + seven years in Other World to unlock two forms

Vegetto: All that training of Goku and Vegeta + some freakishly huge Potara boost then turns SSJ

Cabba: training on his own and fighting in the Salada army but nothing too life threatening since no Saiyan in U6 ever turned SSJ.

This would be insane! What the hell kind of training was Cabba doing that allowed him to outperform Goku and Vegeta combined? Why were Goku and Vegeta wasting so much time trying to master and unlock new transformations when they could've gotten thousands or possibly millions of times stronger by just training in base like Cabba did?

[Miracles]

First of all, his rage boost was stronger - it was never shown he retained that type of power in his ssj2....

Actually, Vegeta did retain it, Roshi confirms by saying, Vegeta has "surpassed" Goku.

[PFM18]

First of all, his rage boost was stronger - it was never shown he retained that type of power in his ssj2....

Actually, Vegeta did retain it, Roshi confirms by saying, Vegeta has "surpassed" Goku.

How does that mean that he retained it?

[Miracles]

How does that mean that he retained it?

Saying Vegeta "finally surpassed Goku" is a continual definite statement, not temporary.

[PFM18]

How does that mean that he retained it?

Saying Vegeta "finally surpassed Goku" is a continual definite statement, not temporary.

Dud he even say "finally" before it?

How could Roshi possibly know that this is a permanent boost in that moment. It is obviously just in that particular moment.