"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[The gr]

I mean there are plenty of ways that I can bash the anime, I just choose that one because Super is a cynically produced garbage made for people who just want fanservice.

I can get behind that Super is not as good as DB/Z because I somewhat agree with that, still I can't get the souless corporation TOEI.

[kudo6000]

Ugh I really wish the term of "DBS is only there to sell toys" just die already

When a movie is scheduled to release months ahead and merchandise for that film is already being advertised up the ass, that says a lot about the absolute state of this franchise.

when the new forms themselves barely get merchandise.

SSB, SSG, MUI and UI have been getting a lot of (upcoming) stuff. Where's this coming from? It's not like they're not getting acknowledged.

[Miracles]

I think it was less of how they went out, and more of how they were treated as an afterthought throughout this. If they actually got to put on a good show on panel, and we actually got to watch how they got worn down over time, and then they went off like this, I think it would have been fine. The moment was a good show of how Jiren thinks of everyone else as useless. But I think that would have had even more impact if we saw how strong the guys he considered useless were.

Yep, exactly. I guess Toyo is saving all the good stuff for the finale. Will he ever top is MMSB Goku vs Merged Zamas fight?

Agree of missing more of toppo showdown , ok with being “equal” with mastered blue , cuz Beerus stated that mssb vegeta could be a god of destruction candidate in other universes I.i.r.c

Yep, Beerus did. Forgot about that. So it's logical.

Well, Goku ssj god was also said he can become a god of destruction in the battle of gods and that form is even weaker than Toppo.

That's right. So it isn't a disappointment for Toppo being on par with MSSB.

[The gr]

SSB, SSG, MUI and UI have been getting a lot of (upcoming) stuff. Where's this coming from? It's not like they're not getting acknowledged.

Still SSB evolution and God Toppo got no merchandise and those transformation were created by AT not Toei.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Ugh I really wish the term of "DBS is only there to sell toys" just die already

When a movie is scheduled to release months ahead and merchandise for that film is already being advertised up the ass, that says a lot about the absolute state of this franchise.

It's taken modern DB FIVE YEARS to get to this point. And besides December and January merchandise is supposed to be revealed around this time anyway nothing to do with them wanting to advertise ahead of the movie, they need several months in advance to know how many cases of stuff are going be ordered by stores (and gamestations in Japan) and so they can mass produce accordingly.

Up until this movie modern DB has been treated like utter shite when it comes to marketing and merchandising. BoG didn't get merched until 2014, DBS didn't until 2017! One Piece, One Piece's last film in 2016 GOT ITENSE merch roll out for 3 MONTHS meanwhile it's taken us over 5 YEARS since BoG opened in March 2013 to FINALLY get similar treatment and love to One Piece (and even then DBS movie merch drops off after 2 months!)

I'm absolutely at my tether with people not knowing what they're talking about when it comes to this stuff.

[Bergamo]

Goku was suppressed. Sure, the scene was blatant fan service because it was an homage to Movie 8, but it should have been obvious that he was holding back.

1. Powering up from SSJ2-> SSB Goku said he would use "a little" more power.
2. He received no battle damage from Kale's rampage
3. Jiren one shot her and Goku was unimpressed,(implying he could have done the same) and immediately challenged him.


Uhh yeah his Base is super strong so his other forms are stronger as well yes. I'm really not sure what you are saying in this segment of your post though.


Well, yeah but that is completely different from what you were initially saying. You said he got successive rage boosts and now you reference a bunch of events that aren't rage boosts.

unlocking new form /=/ rage boost
using Final Explosion/=/ rage boost
getting beaten by Jiren in Base /=/ rage boost



Yes sir.

1. If Goku was going to use a little more power only, then wouldn't he have gone SSG or SS3?
2. I guess we can agree to disagree on Kefla.
3. Rage boost or family boost, whatever you want to call it, Vegeta kept getting more power out of nowhere.

1. That would have been more sensical but again, the scene is just there for an homage to Broly and Goku being SSB just makes it seem more dramatic. They dropped hints that he was suppressed and it was confirmed when he dominated a stronger version of Kale as a SSG.
2. The nature of how SSG was handled after episode 14 automatically indicates that SSG doesn't yield the same boost it did initially, and so it was easier to catch up. What was impressive about Kale/Caulifla was that they could match Goku and Vegeta in their current Base/SSJ forms given how outrageously powerful they are by this point. It would be inconsistent if their fusion WASN'T as strong as it was given how incredibly strong they were in their Base/non-god SSJ forms.
3. He got a new form and then he got a rage boost. That is literally it. It doesn't count as a power boost that he used the FInal Explosion, him remembering his family and encouraging himsellf to fight on against Jiren is not a power boost. Now, you are moving the goal posts anyway.

Unless Vegeta's Final explosion is exactly the same strength as all of his other attacks, then it's a power boost. Vegeta's final explosion in the Buu arc killed him, but seeing as how it didn't sap Vegeta's energy or damage him in any tangible way, it just looks like Vegeta randomly fired off a super powerful attack. When characters keep arbitrarily suppressing themselves or power up due to vague reasons, it leave the audience wondering how powerful these characters are supposed to be. According to the people who worked DBS, SSBE Vegeta is equal to Kaioken Blue Goku, but this is almost impossible to tell because of how many power ups Vegeta gets.

[kudo6000]

Up until this movie modern DB has been treated like utter shite when it comes to marketing and merchandising.

The amount of shit being advertised for this movie is no greater than what the Super anime had delivered. While perhaps not primarily a driving force for the conception of anything Super, marketing is in there when it comes to this franchise. I'm sure they know what sells, and they're absolutely right. I'm fairly certain I know what I'm talking about, thank you. I also know that this isn't the thread for this.

[The gr]

I'm still kinda mad that Toppo and Dyspo didn't got a big fight, I definitely think they deserved a dedicated chapter.

I would loved to see more of #17 and Frieza teaming up.

[Bergamo]

Here's my wish list for next chapter:
1. Vegeta redemption - Vegeta sacrifices himself in some way to assist Goku because he cares about his family
2. MUI early on - I hope Goku gets MUI at about the 15 page mark rather than near the end of the chapter
3. Better Android 17 reveal - please don't let this be, "lol guess I survived," again
4. Amazing fight choreography - I want Goku vs Jiren to surpass Goku vs Zamas
5. More- They can't wrap up the end of the tournament in 1 chapter. We better get 1 more chapter after this.

[prince212]

3. Better Android 17 reveal - please don't let this be, "lol guess I survived," again

You made me laugh . While I loved that anime moment a lot , I agree , now that we know that is most likely to happen again that should be done in a different manner , I don’t know how but I hope they will surprise us again .
It’s quite hard to think a different reveal than the “lol I survived “ t.b.h

[dragon boss z]

3. Better Android 17 reveal - please don't let this be, "lol guess I survived," again

You made me laugh . While I loved that anime moment a lot , I agree , now that we know that is most likely to happen again that should be done in a different manner , I don’t know how but I hope they will surprise us again .
It’s quite hard to think a different reveal than the “lol I survived “ t.b.h

I think it would be better if he actually planned to fake his death just so he could wait out the time or jump in when he is needed in a surprise attack.

[kemuri07]

I mean there are plenty of ways that I can bash the anime, I just choose that one because Super is a cynically produced garbage made for people who just want fanservice.

I can get behind that Super is not as good as DB/Z because I somewhat agree with that, still I can't get the souless corporation TOEI.

So we just going to forget how ugly the show looked when it first premiered. Didn’t really seem like Toei was putting much effort into the show then. Granted I think most corporations are soulless, but some of the more successful ones find a nice balance between making commercially successful products and something resembling art. Why I call TOEI out on this is because it felt like every decision that was made was based less because it made any narrative sense and more because “it’d get more people to watch the show.”

Look, I get it—people like the bombast, the noise, and fights. And when it worked, Super was at least entertaining. But there’s nothing here that I would call “good.” At it’s best the anime was a dumb palette cleanser. At its worst, well, I found it insulting. As someone whose a massive fan of the series for 20+ years, it’s was downright disappointing to see how shallow the show became.

[Miracles]

SSB, SSG, MUI and UI have been getting a lot of (upcoming) stuff. Where's this coming from? It's not like they're not getting acknowledged.

Still SSB evolution and God Toppo got no merchandise and those transformation were created by AT not Toei.

Uhm...TOEI stated SSBE was an "anime original" only.
Don't know about God Toppo.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Up until this movie modern DB has been treated like utter shite when it comes to marketing and merchandising.

The amount of shit being advertised for this movie is no greater than what the Super anime had delivered. While perhaps not primarily a driving force for the conception of anything Super, marketing is in there when it comes to this franchise. I'm sure they know what sells, and they're absolutely right. I'm fairly certain I know what I'm talking about, thank you. I also know that this isn't the thread for this.

Way to completely take 90% of what I wrote away. What you are saying now clearly wasn't what you were saying originally, as you said they're advertising merch for the movie months in advance shows the state of the franchise even though they're showing merch for everything this advance not just DB, it has nothing to do with DB having a movie.

[PFM18]

The dialogue for Vegeta in this chapter is so weird.He's basically shitting on Whis. He goes on and on about not learning anything from anyone and being a solo trainer, but the only reason he is as far as he is, is because he has learned so much from Whis. And he gets this power-up just for being pissed about Goku surpassing him. That's legit character regression.

[prince212]

3. Better Android 17 reveal - please don't let this be, "lol guess I survived," again

You made me laugh . While I loved that anime moment a lot , I agree , now that we know that is most likely to happen again that should be done in a different manner , I don’t know how but I hope they will surprise us again .
It’s quite hard to think a different reveal than the “lol I survived “ t.b.h

I think it would be better if he actually planned to fake his death just so he could wait out the time or jump in when he is needed in a surprise attack.

That will be Way better ! In fact Here in the manga that explosion seems more planned , it was an attacking movement instead of defending like it was in the anime . I enjoyed it in the anime , but now that I think about it ... was kind of weird a defensive explosion to protect goku and vegeta inside of a barrier ....
same kind of divided thoughts came now with GoD Toppo anime , was real good , but ... now I also think it was forced to become a god just like that , and the body transformation and all the justice aside stuff .

[Saiga]

This is where I disagree. Freeza had been going out of his way to pick off weak fighters before actually seriously engaging anyone. Even ignoring previous context and just going by what is presented in the chapter alone, Jiren bringing them back in would have been a waste.

I think he wouldn't have the luxury from this chapter. Freeza was able to do that while the stronger opponents were preoccupied. Here, though, Freeza starts fighting Jiren directly because Goku and Vegeta can't, and after 17's sacrifice it's really just him. Jiren should be able to prevent that at any rate.

[Bergamo]

The dialogue for Vegeta in this chapter is so weird.He's basically shitting on Whis. He goes on and on about not learning anything from anyone and being a solo trainer, but the only reason he is as far as he is, is because he has learned so much from Whis. And he gets this power-up just for being pissed about Goku surpassing him. That's legit character regression.

While I'm inclined to agree, Vegeta is still in, so he may get redeemed next chapter.

[Noah]

Has anyone mentioned how inconsisted is Jiren character on this manga? At first he seems like a Superman, a guy who cares about his world and the living people and a few chapters after he starts acting like his anime counterpart, being an douche and not caring about anyone else.

FTL? Sorry to break it to you but characters have been FTL since DB. Burter himself claimed he was FTL in canon and Goku humiliated him with his own speed. So being FTL isn't an argument. Dyspo was worn off by 17 but he went ahead and tried to save his own teammate anyways. But ofc what does it matter if he's just doing what he does IC, all that matters is how he was being toyed with by Frieza irrespective of their conditions, one recovered and the other beaten and worn down thinking about his teammate. That it automatically makes him fodder to fans is just bad discourse.
Toppo fighting the third strongest person in the tournament, one who is also the equivalent of a GoD candidate. Both worn out as shit. Eliminated like fodders. Uh-huh. What, did you need Vegeta to blast him off the stage with a Final Flash or something? Or do a beam clash? Would that make his elimination better for you, show how Vegeta was the better fighter through bigger power levels?

Then show me the evidence where a character on the original manga stated himself to be FTL, there are only assumptions. Even though Dyspo was worn out, it's inconceivable to think he couldn't at least perform a jump to avoid being eliminated.

And yes, I don't know why you liked that sense of reality the manga presented to us about their eliminations, Dragon Ball tends to show weight when dispatches its antagonists (like mentioned before), people were used to these characters as the Top #3 of the Universe 11, seeing them being eliminated like nobodies just feels off.

[dragon boss z]

FTL? Sorry to break it to you but characters have been FTL since DB. Burter himself claimed he was FTL in canon and Goku humiliated him with his own speed. So being FTL isn't an argument.

Then show me the evidence where a character on the original manga stated himself to be FTL, there are only assumptions. Even though Dyspo was worn out, it's inconceivable to think he couldn't at least perform a jump to avoid being eliminated.

Ya, there is no evidence of FTL in the original manga. I assume he is talking about kid Goku dodging solar flare, which never actually happened, he took Roshi's sunglasses before the attack went off, or maybe he is talking about Goku dodging that "laser" blast, which if we count that as a FTL feat then Han solo is FTL for dodging Grido's blaster. And Burter never said he was FTL that was a mistranslation.