The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Piccolo Daimao]

*post*

I had a really good post lined up, but my stupid fucking human fingers ended up pasting over something that I'd coped over instead of copying the post I'd written when I was trying to post it.

*sigh*

So I'll just write this in short form.

-Boo can be arrogant as well as intelligent at the same time.
-I compared it to Vegetto vs. Boo because Gotenks was one-sidedly beating Boo towards the tail end of the fight and Boo seemed to recieve just as much damage as he did vs. Vegetto. Again, that's what the story heavily implies: Gotenks was on the verge of killing Boo, but defused before he could do so.
-Gotenks' Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack blew Boo's body to pieces, and the story heavily implied that Gotenks and Piccolo could've defeated him if they'd destroyed the ashes. Gokuu's Kamehameha against Pure Boo didn't work because he mentioned himself that he needed time to gather up enough ki for a final attack that could wipe out Boo for good. In the midst of a battle like that, Gokuu wouldn't have time to charge up and fire a full-power Kamehameha, and then rush in to destroy all the ashes before Boo regenerated.

Also, read Super Saiyan Turlast x4's posts, explaining my points better than me.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Well if you focus in manga Bulma says this: Gohan probably cant even go ssj2 after Vegeta sad he and Gohan had huge gamp before but now I'm trained while your leaved easy life,,btw you should know Vegetas confidence until he starts loosing,,he always critizis someone and when he starts fighting with him he got beat to he ground...and yea his base and Gokus base isnt the same which means majin gives him boost that gives him little more strenght than Goku but still they fight almost equal yust like Gotenks ssj3 and Super buu...

Vegeta was still assessing Gohan's power by that point. He mentioned how he looked outta shape, and reminded Gohan that he kept up with his training. Vegeta has his arrogant moments, definitely, but when he actually saw Super Saiyan 2 Gohan for the first time in a good while at the Budokai, he was quite disappointed with his decrease in power.

He's smart enough to realize when he's outmatched or when he has a decent advantage in power. Vegeta was able to understand that Goku surpassed him (and that was with a quick burst of power), which was accurate, so I believe his opinion of being stronger than Gohan is also valid.

[dario03]

How powerful do you think South Kaioshin was? We only see him a tiny bit and only see him fight in the anime but he is stated to be the strongest Kaioshin and Buu used absorbtion on him instead of killing him. Do you think he could beat somebody like SS2 Goku or living body SS3 Goku? Does "strongest of us all" mean South Kaioshin>Dai Kaioshin or was KibitoKai's statement meant to exclude Dai Kaioshin since he was on a higher level in the hierarchy?

[hleV]

How powerful do you think South Kaioshin was? We only see him a tiny bit and only see him fight in the anime but he is stated to be the strongest Kaioshin and Buu used absorbtion on him instead of killing him. Do you think he could beat somebody like SS2 Goku or living body SS3 Goku? Does "strongest of us all" mean South Kaioshin>Dai Kaioshin or was KibitoKai's statement meant to exclude Dai Kaioshin since he was on a higher level in the hierarchy?

"South Kaioshin, the burliest and strongest one"
"fat but kind and gentle Dai-Kaioshin"

That's how those were described by East Kaioshin. I think it's save to say that Dai Kaioshin was weaker than South Kaioshin.

---

Anyway, my problem is that Gotenks at the very minimum should be like 4 times stronger than Goku, if we assume that Goku wasn't going all out against Fat Boo, and going by SEG multipliers. If Evil Boo is as strong as Gotenks, then

• Evil Boo ~ 4 SSJ3 Goku ~ 4 Pure Boo

And Bulky Boo is even stronger than that! How in the world can Evil Boo be 4x stronger than Pure Boo, when all he has absorbed are South and Dai Kaioshins?

So either Boo's absorbtions work a bit like fusion, rather than adding absorbees' power to what he already has (which doesn't look like the case in any other instances), OR Gotenks was fairly stronger than Evil Boo (more likely, if you ask me).

There's also the Z Sword issue, and if South Kaioshin wasn't stupid and did try to pull it out but failed, we can only set him below SSJ Gohan.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I'm not sure how strong he is. I don't think he's as strong as Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

[Piccolo Daimao]

How powerful do you think South Kaioshin was? We only see him a tiny bit and only see him fight in the anime but he is stated to be the strongest Kaioshin and Buu used absorbtion on him instead of killing him. Do you think he could beat somebody like SS2 Goku or living body SS3 Goku? Does "strongest of us all" mean South Kaioshin>Dai Kaioshin or was KibitoKai's statement meant to exclude Dai Kaioshin since he was on a higher level in the hierarchy?

Probably stronger than Pure Boo (and, by default, SS3 Gokuu, since he's slightly stronger than Pure Boo), since he absorbed him, and Boo only ever absorbed opponents that were a threat to him (in contrast to the North and West Kaioushin, who he flat-out killed). Unless the South Kaioushin had some kind of strange ability like psychic powers that had nothing to do with strength, but that's not really suggested and what we're told about him is that he's the strongest Kaioushin.

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P4.3-4
Context: East Kaioshin explains Boo's history
Kaioshin: “…First, two [Kaioshins] were killed…the North Kaioshin and the West Kaioshin….And then the South Kaioshin, the burliest and strongest one, was…somehow absorbed by Boo…..”
Elder Kaioshin: …And he become that huge Boo from before? “
Kaioshin: “…Yes……”

I do think that "the strongest one" means that the South Kaioushin was stronger than the Dai Kaioushin. Just because the Dai Kaioushin's of a higher position than him doesn't automatically mean that he must be stronger than him. On the flip-side, you could argue that Enma Daiou's practically invincible in his role as the Judge of the Dead, since he can remove even Gokuu's body or, depending on the rules of the afterlife or whatnot (excluding DBZ Movie #9 from this, which I don't want to get into now but will briefly; perhaps, after being in the living world for a period of time, Gokuu would either be ripped from the living world back into the afterlife, flat-out disappear or Baba would have to come down and get him).

Perhaps Dai Kaioushin has, as I speculated with the South Kaioshin, strange abilities like psychic powers or something. What we know is that, in contrast to the South Kaioushin, his innate purity actually tamed him and weakened his power, rather than increasing it. Take that as you will.

[Mystic Gohan]

Ughh. AT was okay with anime and filler, therefore it is canon. Kid buu was stated by kibito kai and goku to be on a whole nother level from the other buus. Chaotic boohan when he snapped the multiverses was just kid buu's suppressed powers obviously. Kid buu>ssj3 goku>ssj vegito>gohan-buu.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Ughh. AT was okay with anime and filler, therefore it is canon. Kid buu was stated by kibito kai and goku to be on a whole nother level from the other buus. Chaotic boohan when he snapped the multiverses was just kid buu's suppressed powers obviously. Kid buu>ssj3 goku>ssj vegito>gohan-buu.

Haven't people told about this before? I'm just not even going to bother dignifying you with a response and just leave it to the professionals.

"Chaotic Boohan" is just something you made up or stole from CatouttaHell (whose opinions follow an equally warped logic as yours).

Not to mention that the anime flat-out contradicts the manga in this scenario, because Gokuu and Kaioushin never claim that Kid Boo was the strongest Boo in the original manga, which is what we're dealing with here. SS3 Gokuu > SS Vegetto makes 0% fucking sense because anime SS3 Gokuu could barely defend himself against Gotenks-Boo, while SS Vegetto was whipping Gohan-Boo's ass.

Don't bring in the non-manga-canon anime, which adds its own plotholes and inconsistencies (which even the manga, the primary source, itself has enough of) into the equation, because it just makes everything much more of a clusterfuck to handle.

[Fox666]

Again, that's what the story heavily implies: Gotenks was on the verge of killing Boo, but defused before he could do so.

This is something I am going to disagree with you. The damage Evil Boo received until then was nothing and he was just fine before fighting Gohan. And a Kamehameha alone won't decide a battle, multiples special techniques have been used and Evil Boo can fire a Kamehameha too.

either Boo's absorbtions work a bit like fusion, rather than adding absorbees' power to what he already has (which doesn't look like the case in any other instances)

Isn't that implied when Boo said that Gohan merging with Goku wouldn't do any good? Since he absorbed Gotenks and Piccolo, he should well know how the metamorian fusion works.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Again, that's what the story heavily implies: Gotenks was on the verge of killing Boo, but defused before he could do so.

This is something I am going to disagree with you. The damage Evil Boo received until then was nothing and he was just fine before fighting Gohan. And a Kamehameha alone won't decide a battle, multiples special techniques have been used and Evil Boo can fire a Kamehameha too.

I think he needed time to "regenerate" from Gotenks' assault. If Gotenks had fired off that Kamehameha before Boo had time to and subsequently destroyed the ashes, Boo would be done for. Just like with Gotenks' Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack.

[Mystic Gohan]

Ughh. AT was okay with anime and filler, therefore it is canon. Kid buu was stated by kibito kai and goku to be on a whole nother level from the other buus. Chaotic boohan when he snapped the multiverses was just kid buu's suppressed powers obviously. Kid buu>ssj3 goku>ssj vegito>gohan-buu.

Haven't people told about this before? I'm just not even going to bother dignifying you with a response and just leave it to the professionals.

"Chaotic Boohan" is just something you made up or stole from CatouttaHell (whose opinions follow an equally warped logic as yours).
Whatever you want to call it, chaotic boohan tapped into kid buu's suppressed power

Not to mention that the anime flat-out contradicts the manga in this scenario, because Gokuu and Kaioushin never claim that Kid Boo was the strongest Boo in the original manga, which is what we're dealing with here. SS3 Gokuu > SS Vegetto makes 0% fucking sense because anime SS3 Gokuu could barely defend himself against Gotenks-Boo, while SS Vegetto was whipping Gohan-Boo's ass.
I am glad you brought this up. Goku didn't want to use ssj3, because he knew how bad it was.

Don't bring in the non-manga-canon anime, which adds its own plotholes and inconsistencies (which even the manga, the primary source, itself has enough of) into the equation, because it just makes everything much more of a clusterfuck to handle.

[CatouttaHell]

I agree with Mystic Gohan. Anime-wise it's heavily implied that Pure Boo > SSjin 3 Goku > Super Vegetto > SSjin 2 Goku > Pure Boo (Initial) > Gohan-Boo > SSjin Goku > Ultimate Gohan > Base Goku

Gohan-Boo can't even beat Base Vegetto yet when he gets furious enough he loses his mind and overpowers Super Vegetto. There's really no logical explanation for where he got all that power from besides him dipping into part of Pure Boo's suppressed power.

Base Goku holding his own against Ultimate Gohan and one-shotting him with SSjin inside Boo's head suggests he's that powerful as well.

Manga-wise of course SSjin 3 Goku isn't even anywhere near Base Gotenks (Post) but that's another story.

I think the most logical explanation for the Anime hax is that Toei thinks characters get insane increases from fighting. You'll notice DB Movie 4, GT, and the Anoyoichi Budoukai follow the same idea.

GT has Base Goku going from somewhere around Base Gotenks (Post) to above Gohan-Boo to rivaling or surpassing Super Vegetto just from traveling in space and fighting random villains.

[Mystic Gohan]

Ya see atleast someone with logic comes here.

[Saiga]

I agree with Mystic Gohan. Anime-wise it's heavily implied that Pure Boo > SSjin 3 Goku > Super Vegetto > SSjin 2 Goku > Pure Boo (Initial) > Gohan-Boo > SSjin Goku > Ultimate Gohan > Base Goku

That doesn't make any sense, even in the anime. If Goku was stronger than Gohan as a Super Saiyan, why would he even send Gohan to fight Super Boo? And if he was stronger than Gohan-Boo in SS2, why did he fuse with Vegeta?

That's just completely warped reasoning that's lacking logic.

[Kaboom]

Well, that's the warped and self-contradictory way the anime did things in order to shamelessly add extra hype to Goku. Which is why the manga is typically used instead for in-depth debates and discussions. It doesn't messily contradict itself like the anime does.

Anyway, let's try to get back on-topic.


Android 19 and Android 20 VS Freeza (100%) and Coola (transformed).


I think this would be a pretty close one. The two Androids would start out lagging behind the alien broskis in power, but I think they'd manage to absorb some energy from them before they figured out what's going on, and the battle would end up being evened out. After that it could go either way.

[Saiga]

Android 19 and Android 20 VS Freeza (100%) and Coola (transformed).


I think this would be a pretty close one. The two Androids would start out lagging behind the alien broskis in power, but I think they'd manage to absorb some energy from them before they figured out what's going on, and the battle would end up being evened out. After that it could go either way.

While I think that 19 or 20 could beat Freeza in a one on one fight (though not without their absorption abilities), I don't really know where to put Coola. "Above Freeza" would be good, but... I don't know how far above him. Given that he has a whole 'nother transformation above Freeza, I'd say he's a 'lot' stronger. So I'd think the Androids wouldn't get the chance to absorb enough of Freeza's ki with Coola outclassing them so badly.

[Mystic Gohan]

I agree with Mystic Gohan. Anime-wise it's heavily implied that Pure Boo > SSjin 3 Goku > Super Vegetto > SSjin 2 Goku > Pure Boo (Initial) > Gohan-Boo > SSjin Goku > Ultimate Gohan > Base Goku

That doesn't make any sense, even in the anime. If Goku was stronger than Gohan as a Super Saiyan, why would he even send Gohan to fight Super Boo? And if he was stronger than Gohan-Boo in SS2, why did he fuse with Vegeta?

That's just completely warped reasoning that's lacking logic.

Goku wasn't as strong as Gohan before he fused to make SSj Vegito imo. Once he fused, I think he tapped into some of the fusion's power to become so strong to take on the mightiest Buu being kid Buu.

[Mario]

Goku wasn't as strong as Gohan before he fused to make SSj Vegito imo. Once he fused, I think he tapped into some of the fusion's power to become so strong to take on the mightiest Buu being kid Buu.[/quote]


lol man who told you that he tapped in fusion powers? thats like saying Goten and Trunks know ssj2 and ssj3 cuz of fusion,,where is your proof,,Kid buu is not mightiest yust most dangerous of them all,,,btw in manga Goku ssj1 never fights Gohan Mystic cuz Gohan would break him in 1 min..Truth is only that Kid buu > Goku ssj3 full power...

[Mario]

Android 19 and Android 20 VS Freeza (100%) and Coola (transformed).


I think this would be a pretty close one. The two Androids would start out lagging behind the alien broskis in power, but I think they'd manage to absorb some energy from them before they figured out what's going on, and the battle would end up being evened out. After that it could go either way.

I'm not sure it would be pretty close,,first Frieza in weaker than Androids which yust proves how Android 19 managed to owerpower Goku who was stronger than time against Frieza...and I'm pretty sure Androids would use absorbation abillity on him...so Androids > Frieza ..for Cooler its stated for his movie that his power level was 470.000.000 in V-jump,,,i think its litte to much or not cuz Goku trained on Yardrat so his power also get up,,since its movie you cant realy compere it with manga but i would say Cooler final form > Androids...since Goku had virus his power and stamina droped so thats why he lost...but if its 2 vs 2 battle then i would go with Frieza and Cooler...

[Fox666]

Technically it is stated for a videogame at best, so you shouldn't take Coola battle power too serious.