Dragon Ball Super: TV Ratings Discussion Thread

[Bigivel]

You're free to call us "biased", but perhaps use the correct word when doing so.

I welcome your alternate interpretation based on the same public data we reference there.

What other word can you use when your mind is already made and you use evidence that is saying the opposite our something different to your believe but you still use it as prove of yours believes? I think bias is pretty accurate word.


I will with pleasure explain.

It is quite evident that many fans were simply enjoying the free HD broadcasts of the series while not buying any of its merchandise. Unfortunately, no show can survive in Japan without decent merchandise sales, which ultimately funds the show’s production.

What is this, other than the showing of your believe! It shows that right from the beginning you think that the merchandise sales aren't decent. Did you at least took a look at the numbers? Domestic -> 343 Million yen, Overseas -> 379 Million yen. Domestic is the 3rd best, Overseas is the best.

In almost every fiscal presentation during the course of Dragon Ball Kai‘s run, Toei Animation would note the “strong performance of character merchandise, DVDs/Blu-rays of One Piece and Pretty Cure“. Not once was Dragon Ball ever mentioned in a similar fashion.

So them talking of the 2 best series of the company, specially One Piece that at the time was having a huge boom in sales, but not of Dragon Ball that at the time was the third best obviously means that Dragon Ball isn't doing decently. This is in the same level of people here saying that because Dragon Ball Super is in 7th place in the top 10 means that is doing horrible and is in risk of being cancelled.
Let's also totally forget that the same IR report says this

Dragon Ball = Evergreen Brand

because Evergreen Brand obviously means flop!
Also is important to note that in those reports Toei always only shows focus the Top 2 series. Right now they only are really focusing on Dragon Ball and One Piece. Does this mean that Precure is doing horrible in merchandise and is at risk of being cancelled? Think again.

This truly became evident in Q2 Fiscal 2011 when Toei Animation noted in its presentation that “under [a] continuous severe business environment, our goal is to aim to create [the] ‘next hit title’ by securing stable income from the multi-use of the current TV lineups and library titles”.

The amazing thing about editing stuff out to fill your narrative. If you read the entire report you understand that they are talking of the entire anime environment and of their business position in general. And this have been talked in other reports, even if not exactly in the same words.
Focus their base in the already successful library series includes Dragon Ball. In fact includes One Piece, Precure, Dragon Ball, Sailor Moon, Saint Seiya, Digimon and others(at that time also Harlock and Gaiking). And that is the reason from 2011 and behind we have seen Toei focusing in library series(even Tiger Mask, Captain Harlock, Mazinger Z, ...) and keeping investing into products of those 6 series.
And while guaranteeing that base they are able to take risk to try and find the next hit series.

I don't understand how "multi-use of the current TV lineup and library titles" was taken to mean, Precure and One Piece but leaving Dragon Ball aside. This is literally reaching!

In the same presentation, they noted a need to “strengthen the lineup” and even went so far as to say a “new TV lineup was in preparation for the 2011 year”. It was most likely at this point that Toei Animation had fully decided to move on from Dragon Ball Kai.

Yep, because is normal for companies to stagnate and is not like they show new lineups and new things in certain periods, like yearly or semester or seasonal or something like that. Obviously they are talking about fully move on from Dragon Ball Kai, because it is a flop.

I don't see how those affirmation prove anything really. More, is funny that the "strengthen the lineup" means removing the 3rd most profitable series but leaving all the rest of their series. That totally makes sense, or you assuming that the people of Toei Animation is stupid? and that just show prejudice.


This totally shows bias because everything that the report says, even the most general stuff, you take in the context of Dragon Ball Kai. Why? Do you think Toei Animation has always its eyes on Dragon Ball and so when they talk in general they obviously are presenting hints about the series situation? If they wanted to tell something about Dragon Ball in specific they would explicitly say it.

Presumably using the profits from One Piece and Pretty Cure, they began the process of turning the popular manga series Toriko into their “next hit anime title” and giving it Dragon Ball Kai‘s time slot.

Using the profits of One Piece and Pretty Cure? Toei Animation by that time earned 26 Billion yen in sales, One Piece accounted for 4.1 Billion, Precure for 1.4 Billion and Dragon Ball for 2 Billion. Yep, more than Precure(though the IR report focus more on Domestic sales where Precure was above Dragon Ball by 0.9 Billion yen). Still all the other series together provided 18.5 Billion yen, so I don't know why they are just using the profits of One Piece and Precure. Ah, you were just thinking of those series so you forgot that Toei Animation had more series actual running and even old series still earn money.

Where did in the report was ever said that they were in the process of turning Toriko into their "next hit anime title". There is nothing remotely close to that in that report nor in any other report they have shown. They shown their interest into developing the franchise, but they weren't optimist enough to call it the "next hit" or the fact they were expecting it to be.



Obviously they gave Dragon Ball Kai's timeslot. But that doesn't mean that it was because Dragon Ball Kai was a flop. And giving how they do things in the past you can very well be sure that something like that was already planned. That same thing happened with One Piece. They did a remake of Dr. Slump for 2 years and than gave the timeslot to One Piece. Are you saying that they only got One Piece because Dr. Slump remake was a flop? Are you saying that didn't secured the series right at the beginning of its serialization, and they waited and risked other companies to get the rights?
And Is not like Toei only that year had their eyes in Toriko, in fact one year before they had made Toriko OVA, knowing that it takes time to do such a thing you know very well that before the end of the first year(or at that exact time) of Dragon Ball Kai they already had their eyes on Toriko as their new series. but that year Dragon Ball Kai was Toei Animation most profitable series, One Piece was only doing 0.79 Billion Yen(Precure 0.9 Billion) and Dragon Ball 2.8 Billion. Are you saying that they were in fact planning to remove One Piece while that year spent a lot of money doing the Strong World Movie and its merchandise?
Also note how before the anime started they already had a Toriko mini movie Toriko 3D, that came bundled together with One Piece 3D Mugiwara chase. And knowing that the proposals to a series in Weekly Shonen Jump Magazine(at least that magazine) is made really early in its serialization(Toriko started in 2008, before Dragon Ball Kai started) and than the company waits for chapters to pile up before announcing the adaptation and then airing the anime, is obvious that the decision wasn't just made because Dragon Ball Kai was a flop.
The idea that a series that takes only 2 years is substituted by a promising new title that is promoted accordingly, because that series is a flop is really underestimating the work of the Planning team of a company.

To end, the report just says that they plan is to guarantee the base income(security), keep using the library series(renovation) and only then risk in new series in an aggressively manner(active risk). And that by 2011 they are strengthening the base and also have a new line-up.
Simple as that, it says nothing about specific series, really.

[LuckyCat]

There's actually much more to Kanzenshuu's conclusion if you looked at their article I linked.

I mean, just looking at the slump in sales from Kai's release in 2009 alone backs their conclusion:
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

So, yes, DBKai helped earn almost 3 billion yen in toy sales like you mentioned above, but that's actually a decrease from the Pre-Kai numbers of 5.5 billion yen. The same goes for licensing and games. 3 billion yen may still sound like good money to the average person, but in the context of a decrease in over 2 billion in sales, it's not difficult to see that Toei wasn't reaching its goal of increasing sales with Kai (because, in fact, sales went down across the board and with Dragon Ball specifically).

[Bigivel]

There's actually much more to Kanzenshuu's conclusion if you looked at their article I linked.

I mean, just looking at the slump in sales from Kai's release in 2009 alone backs their conclusion:
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

So, yes, DBKai helped earn almost 3 billion yen in toy sales like you mentioned above, but that's actually a decrease from the Pre-Kai numbers of 5.5 billion yen. The same goes for licensing and games. 3 billion yen may still sound like good money to the average person, but in the context of a decrease in over 2 billion in sales, it's not difficult to see that Toei wasn't reaching its goal of increasing sales with Kai (because, in fact, sales went down across the board and with Dragon Ball specifically).

So decrease of a franchise means cancellation. What about One Piece and Precure then?

And again, just seeing a decline as a reason to cancel is stupid. Here are the sales of the Top 10 Animation Studios in 2009:
2009
20,181,000,000 - Toei Animation
*9,500,000,000 - Sunrise
*9,320,000,000 - TMS Entertainment
*4,946,000,000 - Studio Pierrot
*4,220,000,000 - Production I.G
*4,000,000,000 - Madhouse
*3,300,000,000 - Gainax
*3,127,000,000 - OLM
*2,320,000,000 - Gonzo
*2,040,000,000 - Nippon Animation

5.5 Billion is more than the 4th place Studio Pierrot, and more than half of the 2nd and 3rd Animation studios. This means they are exceptional sales. 3 Billion is more than the 10th and 9th best studio, and in the same bracket as the 8th and 7th best studios. But of course earning the same as OLM the guys that make Pokemon, Inuzuma Eleven and a lot of other popular series, Gainax, Gonzo and Nippon Animation is totally reason why a series is cancelled. If we count all the other studios that are below the Top 10, like Bones and Kyoto Animation and A1-Pictures and JC.Staff, P.A Works and many but really many more. It totally shows that 3 Billion is good money to the average person. I guess all those studios are average persons or even lower than them.

If suddenly a series is able to sell 20 Billion yen year after year, and than gets a big decline of 14.5 Billion and starts selling 5.5 Billion. Are you going to defend the assumption that is reason for cancelling the series?

[SaiyanGod117]

The way people go to convince themselves that Super is some sort of failure is astonishing. It's a success plain as day and you have to get over it. You don't like the show fine but let's not go bending facts to meet your agenda.

Plenty of anime never or hardly make the top 10 yet are successes.

Bending what facts? As a money maker it's a success, as a story it's not.

[LuckyCat]

So decrease of a franchise means cancellation. What about One Piece and Precure then?

Okay, I mean this question on its own shows that you didn't read the article or earnings graphs I posted. Anyway, since we're not disagreeing on the Kai/Super comparison, I don't have much else to add to my original point.

[Bigivel]

So decrease of a franchise means cancellation. What about One Piece and Precure then?

Okay, I mean this question on its own shows that you didn't read the article or earnings graphs I posted. Anyway, since we're not disagreeing on the Kai/Super comparison, I don't have much else to add to my original point.

Nope, I didn't read it now. In the past I already had read it, and is the same exact thing as the previous excerpt. Is pure reaching.
They pick the overall growth plan of the company, that worked beautifully, from 10 Billion sales and 1 Billion net income to 40 Billion sales and 7 Billion net income. In a span of 17 years. 4 times increase in sales, and 7 times increase in net income. They use that and use in the specific case of Dragon Ball.

They pick the warning and precautions Toei Animation was taking in consideration with the bubble burst of the industry. Bubble that Toei Animation wasn't affected by, but was treating the case carefully to not fall for it. They also pick that and used in the specific case of Dragon Ball.

They pick the rejuvenate the Library, and think meaning making Dragon Ball a Mega Hit again. Is the obvious case of 8 or 80. If is a mega success is success if not is a failure. So GT and Kai are failures. Even though none of them in fact were.

Again decrease of sales of a series doesn't in any way makes a cause for the series cancellation or for the series to be unsuccessful. Success is an absolute measure, not relative. So it doesn't matter what the series did before and what the series did after. What matters is the value the series is getting. And it was still a lot!

[Bullza]

Bending what facts? As a money maker it's a success, as a story it's not.

Nobody is talking about the story or its quality. This thread is about the ratings which also translates over to conversations about its financial success quite often because they're partly related.

For some reason you're randomly trying to bait people with irrelevant remarks about the show not being any good.

[Freeza9000]

The way people go to convince themselves that Super is some sort of failure is astonishing. It's a success plain as day and you have to get over it. You don't like the show fine but let's not go bending facts to meet your agenda.

Plenty of anime never or hardly make the top 10 yet are successes.

Bending what facts? As a money maker it's a success, as a story it's not.

This is about TV ratings, not story. Hence the name of the thread.

[alakazam^]

Bigivel, I don't know why you're being that aggressive but you still haven't explained why it's normal for them to stop at Cell. Even if the kids don't properly know Dragon Ball's story, they are aware Boo and SS3 exist so, if Toei decided to air a new "Z" portion of the manga, common sense would dictate that they would do it till the end, right? They weren't testing waters to see if those stories of the franchise were going to be well-accepted, all of that material already proved its worth once.

I've never heard about that two years "rule" but I accept it might be a Toei practice to test things or whatever their goal is but One Piece and Super aren't following it. Precure is annual so that also doesn't count. Digimon, as far as I know, is/was also annual, so that one doesn't count as well. Toriko went over two years so that doesn't count as well. Kai Boo was barely over a year so that one is also out (so, Toriko can go over two years but Kai couldn't? Yeah, I don't think so)... There's an awful lot of exceptions to that pratice, don't you think? Even if your point was just for old titles, everyone knew Kai still had one more story to tell and, not only they didn't air it at the time, all things pointed to them not intending to air the Boo arc in Japan at all. Explain to me why this is.

Besides, we know Super is an afterthought so they don't have everything planned out from the beginning. Did they really need to wait for F's numbers before deciding to make a new series?

[Bigivel]

Bigivel, I don't know why you're being that aggressive but you still haven't explained why it's normal for them to stop at Cell. Even if the kids don't properly know Dragon Ball's story, they are aware Boo and SS3 exist so, if Toei decided to air a new "Z" portion of the manga, common sense would dictate that they would do it till the end, right? They weren't testing waters to see if those stories of the franchise were going to be well-accepted, all of that material already proved its worth once.

I've never heard about that two years "rule" but I accept it might be a Toei practice to test things or whatever their goal is but One Piece and Super aren't following it. Precure is annual so that also doesn't count. Digimon, as far as I know, is/was also annual, so that one doesn't count as well. Toriko went over two years so that doesn't count as well. Kai Boo was barely over a year so that one is also out (so, Toriko can go over two years but Kai couldn't? Yeah, I don't think so)... There's an awful lot of exceptions to that pratice, don't you think? Even if your point was just for old titles, everyone knew Kai still had one more story to tell and, not only they didn't air it at the time, all things pointed to them not intending to air the Boo arc in Japan at all. Explain to me why this is.

Besides, we know Super is an afterthought so they don't have everything planned out from the beginning. Did they really need to wait for F's numbers before deciding to make a new series?

common sense would dictate that they would do it till the end, right? They weren't testing waters to see if those stories of the franchise were going to be well-accepted, all of that material already proved its worth once.

Common sense is many times wrong, because it doesn't take in account for many things. Like, the cost of doing such a thing, the effort, and what was their objective.
Yep, They weren't testing the waters, but they weren't also making a full round trip around the world. Their objective was never to complete the remake of Dragon Ball Z, like it was explicitly said by the company when they ended Dragon Ball Kai. But it seems is better to believe the series is a flop than the words of the company.
The material proved its worth once, yes. But what has that to do with a complete remake? Example: 10 episodes proved their worth by each being worth 1 Million dollars. I know that a remake will do half of the first time. I know I will get a lot of money again, but why does that mean I have to remake the 10 episodes? Can't I just adapt 5, earn 2.5 Million dollars and than do a new series? Why doesn't that make sense?




Lol, you failed the most important part of what I'm being saying. 2 years for "REMAKES/EXTENSIONS".

Since when is One Piece a remake or extension?
Super can still stop around the 2 years period. Though I believe will continue due to the mega popularity it has.
Precure is also not a remake nor extension, Digimon isn't either(Both Precure and Digimon are in fact original series made by Toei Animation), Still Digimon Xros Wars(also known as Fusion) was in that timeframe from June 2010 to March 2012 with (79 episodes), Digimon Appli Monsters is right now also with a placeholder of 2 years.
Toriko isn't a remake nor extension either.
Kai Boo was just ending the content left from Dragon Ball Kai. I'm saying around 2 years, doesn't mean they will extend stuff just to reach around that mark, only that they will not try to surpass that mark.


I will repeat what pattern I'm talking about. I'm saying that when Toei Animation thinks of extending or remaking an adaptation, they don't go more than around 2 years. In fact it normally the series starts with a placeholder of 2 years/100 episodes, and it ends up having less episodes and being less than 2 years.
I'm not saying that they always go for 2 years, I'm saying around 2 years is their upper limit.

I never talked about new series that the studio is adapting. Gegege no Kitaro got 1 year, Dr. Slump got 5 years, Dragon Ball 11 years, One Piece has right now 18 years. Saint Seiya 2 years, Digimon got 4 years, Gash Bell 3 years, Toriko 3 years. Sailor Moon 5 years, Nadja 1 year, Doremi 4 years, Precure has right now 14 years.

But when looking at remakes and extensions you get, Gegege no Kitaro has 5 remakes and they all with 2 years, with the exception of the 1st that got 1 year.
Dr. Slump remake got 2 years(more specifically 1.5 years), Dragon Ball GT 2 years, Dragon Ball Kai 2 years, Saint Seiya Omega 2 years, Digimon Xros/Fusion 2 years. And now Dragon Ball Super got a 2 years placeholder and the same for Digimon Appli Monsters.

While you have the case by saying they have some extensions/remakes that go way below the "around 2 years"(Tiger mask W goes for around 3/4 of a year, for example) , I am still to see 1 of them that surpasses the 2 years. Dragon Ball Super seems to be the first case.
Are we to assume that all the extensions/remakes were flops until Super case? And if that is the case why did the company kept doing more and more of them? And why is the company growing and growing in revenue when they keep doing flop extensions/remakes?(and adaptations for people thinking that series like Toriko are flops)

[Fearless]

Update the ratings this week please.

[Bigivel]

Update the ratings this week please.

Still no info released

Seems like it will be released tomorrow.

[Theophrastus]

https://www.videor.co.jp/tvrating/


1. Sazae-san - 9.6%
2. Chibi Maruko-chan - 6.6%
3. One Piece - 6.2%
4. Detective Conan - 4.5%
5. Dragon Ball Super - 4.3%
6. Curious George - 3.8%
7. Shaun the Sheep - 3.3%
8. Kirakira PreCure A la Mode - 3.1%
9. My Hero Academia - 3.0%
10. Go! Go! Chuggington - 3.0%

[Chuquita]

4.3 is lower than last week, but 5th place is two ranks higher. I guess it evens out.

[Bullza]

That's not good at all.

That's the lowest rated episode to date. Not just that but it's also the first time we've had back to back 4% ratings (which only happened a few times as it is).

The ratings for the actual Tournament have been worse than the preparation for it and people weren't too impressed by those ratings and were saying they'd pick up when the Tournament started.

On top of all that this saga now has the lowest ratings on average.

Battle of Gods - 5.89%
Resurrection F - 5.61%
Universe 6 - 6.0%
Future Trunks - 6.28%
Universe Survival - 5.56%

[perucho1990]

BNHA is back in the Top 10(because of Shigaraki/Stain meeting and Deku using Full Cowl)

Detective Connan rating is also shockingly low.

If DBS plans to continue for 2018 I think they will be screwed

OPM Season 2
BNHA Season 3
SNK Season 3
JJBA Vento Aureo
NNT Season 2

Tokyo Ghoul, Bleach might return, and OP might animate the Wano Arc by that time too.

[Theophrastus]

Everything is two places higher than they would normally be due to Doraemon and Crayon Shin-chan not airing, though overall viewership is down across the board (Detective Conan got hit especially hard, for some reason).

[BlueBasilisk]

Compared to last week, everyone is down significantly except for Chibi Maruko-chan, which was up .4%. Is there some kind of big holiday going on over there? It's kinda strange seeing overall viewership be down so much for two weeks straight.

[perucho1990]

Is it time for DBS to go full Boruto mode and focus on the U6 Saiyan kids? Or go beyond EoZ and focus on Uub and Pan?

[Yedis]

Is it time for DBS to go full Boruto mode and focus on the U6 Saiyan kids? Or go beyond EoZ and focus on Uub and Pan?

Ratings would be even lower.