The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Piccolo Daimao]

At equal powers, Vegeta tanks the worst the Z fighters can throw at him. The other GT characters get stomped, though.

I can't tell if this is a running joke or if you're serious, but there's no indication that Vegeta's durability is abnormally high. He's tougher than some of the others, but not exponentially so.

Well, Vegeta survived Goku's Kaio-ken x4 Kamehameha and a portion of a Genki-Dama. Then later, he was piledriven into the ground by Zarbon, had the same thing done to him by Reacoom and had his guts blasted out by Kuririn. He is one durable motherfucker. I'm not necessarily agreeing with Rocketman's opinion that Vegeta could tank the worst the Z-Warriors could throw at him, since I'm not sure about that myself, but I agree that he's extremely durable.

[CatouttaHell]

How would Giran from the Piccolo Daimao Arc fare against the following opponents in one-on-one matches?

1. Son Goku (21st Tenkaichi Budokai)
2. Panputto
3. Cymbal
4. Chapa-o (22nd Tenkaichi Budokai)
5. Chaozu (22nd Tenkaichi Budokai)
6. Kuririn (22nd Tenkaichi Budokai)

Personally I think Anime-wise he'd defeat everyone on this list as he seemed to do better than even Kuririn did against Tambourine. Tambourine played around with both of them but Giran took WAY more punishment and just kept bouncing back from it until Tambourine used his Ki to pierce his chest.

Manga-wise I think he'd beat everyone but Chaozu and Kuririn. Cymbal was stated to be many times weaker than Tambourine in the Daizenshuu (and by Piccolo) and I just don't see someone many times weaker than Tambourine tanking a kick to the head from him.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Well, we don't know how much stronger Giran had become since the 21st TB, so there's not much to base his power on. I think that he'd be able to defeat Goku (21st TB), Panput and Chapa, especially with his Guru-Guru-Gum. But I don't think he could defeat Cymbal (who I believe is stronger than Kuririn, and I ignore the "many times stronger" statement), Chaozu (22nd TB) or Kuririn (22nd TB).

[Kirby456]

How would Giran from the Piccolo Daimao Arc fare against the following opponents in one-on-one matches?

1. Son Goku (21st Tenkaichi Budokai)
2. Panputto
3. Cymbal
4. Chapa-o (22nd Tenkaichi Budokai)
5. Chaozu (22nd Tenkaichi Budokai)
6. Kuririn (22nd Tenkaichi Budokai)

Personally I think Anime-wise he'd defeat everyone on this list as he seemed to do better than even Kuririn did against Tambourine. Tambourine played around with both of them but Giran took WAY more punishment and just kept bouncing back from it until Tambourine used his Ki to pierce his chest.

Manga-wise I think he'd beat everyone but Chaozu and Kuririn. Cymbal was stated to be many times weaker than Tambourine in the Daizenshuu (and by Piccolo) and I just don't see someone many times weaker than Tambourine tanking a kick to the head from him.

I agree. I think Giran will win all of these battles except for against Cymbal who i have close to Tambourine, plus he got a hit on Tambourine and took several hard hits from Tambourine and got up with minmal damage. I go by the anime though.

[Kirby456]

How about.

1. Goku SSJ Buu Saga Vs Perfect Cell
2. Piccolo Buu Saga Vs Perfect Cell
3. Piccolo End of Z Vs Bojack Final Form
4. Pan GT Vs Perfect Cell
5. Yamcha Pilaf Saga Vs Videl

My opinions

1. Goku stomps
2. Piccolo puts up a good fight but losses
3. Piccolo stomps
4. Pan stomps
5. Yamcha stomps

[CatouttaHell]

How about.

1. Goku SSJ Buu Saga Vs Perfect Cell
2. Piccolo Buu Saga Vs Perfect Cell

FP Perfect Cell - 3,730,000,000

Son Gokū (Boo Arc)
~ SSjin 2 - 8,800,000,000
~ SSjin - 4,400,000,000
~ Base - 88,000,000

Piccolo (Boo Arc) - 3,750,000,000

Cell most likely loses both battles IMO.

3. Piccolo End of Z Vs Bojack Final Form

Bojack - 2,900,000,000

Piccolo - 6,800,000,000

Piccolo kills Bojack by yawning at him.

4. Pan GT Vs Perfect Cell

I haven't gotten to redoing my GT levels yet but I always have Pan way, way higher than Cell. GT Trunks is >>> GT Goten, whose SSjin is equal to GT Base Gohan, who is implied to be a good deal above Mr. Boo. The scene with General Rild implies Pan > Trunks so IMO Pan would absolutely godstomp Cell.

5. Yamcha Pilaf Saga Vs Videl

Videl - 9

Yamucha - 13

Yamucha stomps due to the huge power advantage and his superior skill IMO.

[Piccolo Daimao]

1. Goku SSJ Buu Saga Vs Perfect Cell

Having trained for 7 years in the afterlife, Goku eventually overpowers Perfect Cell at full power. But if we're talking about the level at which he fought Goku, then Goku absoutely stomps him.

2. Piccolo Buu Saga Vs Perfect Cell

As I believe Piccolo's not yet on Boo arc SSj Gohan's level, and as I believe Boo arc SSj Gohan has gone from somewhat above Perfect Cell's level when he fought Goku to around Cell Games SSj Gohan, I think that Piccolo would get trashed.

3. Piccolo End of Z Vs Bojack Final Form

This is a difficult one. I'm not exactly in the battle power list fan community, so I haven't placed characters at specific, baseless stages like this yet. Bojack at full power would be around Perfect Cell's level, right? I guess Piccolo may've reached or surpassed that level after 10 years of training. So Piccolo would probably win.

4. Pan GT Vs Perfect Cell

Not sure about this one. I haven't watched GT in full, nor do I know enough about Pan's feats, however little or large they are, to base an opinion on her. But seeing as she's not a Super Saiyan, I think Cell would spank her all the way to the afterlife.

5. Yamcha Pilaf Saga Vs Videl

Well, I think, at the beginning of the series, I think Yamcha was somewhat stronger than Kuririn, because while Yamcha was at least able to hold his own to a degree against Goku, Kuririn got trashed in a scuffle and was forced to say "uncle". And, while it was a gag scene, Kuririn survived a scene, meaning that I think, if Yamcha did better than Kuririn against Goku, then his body should be resilient enough to take a bullet too.

I don't think that Videl's strong enough to take a bullet. Gohan had to intervene when one of the robbers she was apprehending was about to shoot her, and there's nothing that contradicts the notion that it wouldn't hurt her or, worse, kill her. Apart from maybe, Gohan's previous panic about Videl flying off to do a job that she must be good at and her friends aren't worried about her doing (albeit his only real source of comparison was "stronger than Shapner" and "rival Mr. Satan", the latter of which being the bumbling underwhelming idiot who was flicked away like a bug by Cell). But a gun being fired at the back of your unknowing head is a completely different thing. Nor do I think Videl can do anything as strong or as fast as Yamcha's Rouga Fuu-Fuu-Ken to hurt bullet-withstanding Goku, who later, at the 21st TB, commended him to Kuririn, saying that "he was so fast I couldn't see him" and that he was "super-duper strong".

So Yamcha rapes Videl.

[Kirby456]

How about.

1. Piccolo Saiyan Saga Vs King Yemma
2. Fangs the Vampire Vs Hercule (Fangs cant use blood sucking)
3. Piano Vs Videl

Id say Piccolo, King Yemma defeated Raditz with ease but was stated to be under King Kai who was at 3500. So id put Yemma at 2700, ignoring the issue of V Jump id put Piccolo at 2800 so i think he wins in a close fight. for 2 and 3 I'm going with Fangs and Piano.

[CatouttaHell]

1. Piccolo Saiyan Saga Vs King Yemma

Piccolo rips him apart. Raditz struggled against Enma Daio-sama, which implies they aren't that far apart IMO. Raditz is at 1,500 while Piccolo is anywhere from 2,400 to 3,500. So IMO Piccolo would have his head.

2. Fangs the Vampire Vs (the H-word) (Fangs cant use blood sucking)

Dracula Man is hard to judge. He defeated Kuririn easily but got stomped by Pu-erh and Oopa. Though the latter defeated him by outsmarting him and figuring out all of his non-strength related weaknesses, so I'll give this to Dracula Man since he managed to defeat Kuririn.

3. Piano Vs Videl

Well we pretty much know nothing about Piano's power so it's hard to say. He's a Mazoku but he seems to have no real purpose beyond being a yesman and a "secretary" of sorts. However, there's this:

Chapter: 139, P13.2
Piccolo: “Impo…impossible. Does this mean that there are people in this world capable of defeating our Demon Clan warriors…!”
Piano: “”Un-unbelievable!”

Piano doesn't really seem like a warrior, but defeating any of the Mazoku seems to be a feat that Piccolo Daimao didn't expect any Earthling to have. Videl is an average piece of crap and is far, far, far below even guys like Chapa-o IMO so I'll give this to Piano just because of that.


What about
1. Perfect Cell (GT) vs. Fat Boo
2. Freeza (GT) vs. USSjin Vegeta
3. Giran (21st Tenkaichi Budokai) vs. Kuririn & Yamucha (21st Tenkaichi Budokai)

I personally think the following:

1. Perfect Cell claimed he powered up as well when he faced Goku and was confident he could defeat him. Thus I believe Cell is at least strong enough to put up a fight against Boo Arc SSjin 3 Goku (he saw him from Hell in Anime filler) and would stomp Boo. He had 22 years to train after all, and likely has ridiculous potential due to having Goku and Piccolo's cells.

2. Freeza stomps too. After 25 years of training in Hell I'd peg him above his brother's fifth form who I have on par with SSjin 2 Gohan due to the Toei Hax in Movie 5.

3. Giran wins easily IMO. Yamucha is a total non-factor due to barely training, if at all and being far below guys like Kuririn and Giran and is one-shotted. Kuririn puts up a good fight but ultimately loses, possibly due to Giran's Guru-Guru Gum which even Tailless Goku couldn't break out of.

[Kirby456]

I agree with 1 and 2. I also think Giran would beat Krillin with out to much trouble the same with Yamcha based on his short fight with Yamcha. I lold when Cauotta Hell said "Videls just the average peace of crap" nice one!.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Raditz struggled against Enma Daio-sama, which implies they aren't that far apart IMO.

No offence, but I don't understand how "struggle" implies "not that far apart in power". And besides, although the purpose of that was to demonstrate Enma's power, we later learn that Raditz would've just been a puffy little soul cloud who would've put up about as much of a struggle as a misbehaving toddler.

1. Piccolo Saiyan Saga Vs King Yemma

If we're talking about before the training for the Saiyans, Enma Daio would win easily, because he was said to have defeated Raditz, which, at that point in the series (apparently before Toriyama had ironed out the afterlife rules of dead guys losing their bodies, as stated by Goku in the Cell arc), was a demonstration of Enma's great power, as both Goku and Piccolo couldn't defeat Raditz together without the Makankosappo. If we're talking about after the training for the Saiyans, Piccolo would win without much trouble, having superior power and a variety of techniques on his side.

Fangs the Vampire Vs (the H-word) (Fangs cant use blood sucking)

I think the correct name is "Dracula Man". Anyway, I think Dracula Man wins this easily. He's one of Baba's champions and a vampire, which, IMO, automatically makes him stronger the average Earthling martial arts champion, in this case being Mr. Satan.

Piano Vs Videl

Piano's a member of the Demon Clan, but he was designed as Piccolo's aide rather than a warrior, so I think Videl, who broke Spopovich's neck with a kick, would win, being an actual martial artist with power and skill.

[dbgtFO]

Raditz struggled against Enma Daio-sama, which implies they aren't that far apart IMO.

No offence, but I don't understand how "struggle" implies "not that far apart in power". And besides, although the purpose of that was to demonstrate Enma's power, we later learn that Raditz would've just been a puffy little soul cloud who would've put up about as much of a struggle as a misbehaving toddler.

I think it's only in the Viz adaption the wording implies it was a fight or something. I'm pretty sure Herms said once that it was basically just Raditz, who we know was just a soul cloud, complaining and yelling. He said nothing about actually fighting Raditz, as Goku and a bunch of fans assumed.

[Nineteen]

1. Goku SSJ Buu Saga Vs Perfect Cell

Goku - ~950,000,000
Cell - ~1,200,000,000

Cell wins.

2. Piccolo Buu Saga Vs Perfect Cell

Piccolo - ~750,000,000
Cell - ~1,200,000,000

Cell rapes.

3. Piccolo End of Z Vs Bojack Final Form

Piccolo - ~800,000,000
Bojack - ~1,150,000,000

Bojack wins.

4. Pan GT Vs Perfect Cell

Pan - ~20,000
Cell - 1,200,000,000

Cell doesn't notice she exists.

5. Yamcha Pilaf Saga Vs Videl

Yamcha - ~15
Videl - ~45

Videl wins.

[Nineteen]

Oh yeah, I forgot to add one of my own:

End-of-Z Base form Goku vs. 100% Freeza, non-battle-damaged

Goku is limited to his base form and the first four levels of Kaio-ken, those used in the first battle against Vegeta. Can he succeed?

[CatouttaHell]

100% Freeza - 120,000,000

Son Gokū (End of Z)
~ Kaio-ken x4 - 192,000,000
~ Kaio-ken x3 - 144,000,000
~ Kaio-ken x2 - 96,000,000
~ Kaio-ken - 72,000,000
~ Base - 48,000,000

He gets stomped with and without the regular Kaio-ken. With Kaio-ken x2 and x3 he rivals Freeza and wins after a long fight due to Freeza's dropping Ki. With Kaio-ken x4 he just roflstomps him.

[Nineteen]

My own line of thinking:

Base Goku (End-of-Z) ~ 19,000,000
+ Kaio-ken ~ 28,500,000
+ Kaio-ken x2 ~ 57,000,000
+ Kaio-ken x3 ~ 76,000,000
+ Kaio-ken x4 ~ 95,000,000

vs. Freeza 100% non-battle-damaged ~ 120,000,000

I think Goku has to hit Kaio-ken x4 as soon as the fight begins and has to exert himself as hard as possible as soon as the bell rings to have a chance. But I think he can win despite the power disparity by virtue of being a better fighter.

[hleV]

~ Kaio-ken x2 - 96,000,000
~ Kaio-ken - 72,000,000

+ Kaio-ken ~ 28,500,000
+ Kaio-ken x2 ~ 57,000,000

Kaio-ken <multiplier not said> is Kaio-ken x2. Multiplier wasn't said at first because there was no need since further Kaio-ken levels weren't present yet. You're gonna definitely fail at these things if you look at it differently.

[CatouttaHell]

Kaio-ken <multiplier not said> is Kaio-ken x2. Multiplier wasn't said at first because there was no need since further Kaio-ken levels weren't present yet. You're gonna definitely fail at these things if you look at it differently.

No it isn't. The manga makes the distinction between them and the Daizenshuu lists Kaio-ken and Kaio-ken x2 as different things.

Chapter: 229 (DBZ 35), P13.5-6/P14.2
Goku: “Shit…!! His power and speed… [ ] I can’t keep up, even with the Kaio-Ken x2. [ ] I don’t care if my body breaks or I die! I’ve gotta up the Kaio-Ken to x3!!”

Why would he so surprised that he can't keep up with the Kaio-ken x2 if he already couldn't keep up with a suppressed Vegeta using it?

[Kaboom]

Narrator: "Vegeta's strength far surpassed Goku's expectations! Not even doubling his strength through the Kaio-Ken was enough to stop the Saiyan... Now what will he do?!"

The manga itself also goes back-and-forth, with even the narrator stating that the regular Kaio-Ken doubles one's power. Which is why most folks, myself included, simply write it off as a minor goof-up and treat it and the "Kaio-Ken x2" as the same thing.

[CatouttaHell]

Well that makes no sense to me personally.

FP Vegeta >>> Suppressed Vegeta > Kaio-ken Goku is what is implied.

Kaio-ken x2 Goku = 16,000
Suppressed Vegeta = 18,000

Unless you think that Vegeta's huge power up was from like 17,500 to 18,000 or something I don't see how that makes any sense but that's just me.