DBZ portion of Manga to be in full color?!

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Re: DBZ portion of Manga to be in full color?!

Post by Makaioshin » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:21 pm

Cold Skin wrote: Well then, I have to admit they could be green or blue alike - although green appears most often, which might have played a part in their choice
Ginyu Goku had a yellowish orange scouter. It will probably just be green in this version.
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Re: DBZ portion of Manga to be in full color?!

Post by Kuwabara » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:49 pm

Cold Skin wrote:
Kuwabara wrote:Those 'motion comics' are complete garbage! :clap:

Based off that trailer, I was excited for something akin to what was done with Watchmen: The Complete Motion Comic. Instead, the chapters are poorly composed, poorly timed slide shows accompanied by stock music. This could have been a unique new take on the series, but it just turns out to be like most everything else that's come out in the last decade or so in the realm of Dragon Ball... Cheap or incomplete (or both).
With a one-week delay for four chapters (one for each part), you can't expect the same quality than on the general trailer.
As far as I'm concerned, I'd say those videos save the day, they were just what I needed!
I really don't know why I keep falling into this trap. :lol:
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Re: DBZ portion of Manga to be in full color?!

Post by Cold Skin » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:48 pm

Makaioshin wrote:
Cold Skin wrote: Well then, I have to admit they could be green or blue alike - although green appears most often, which might have played a part in their choice
Ginyu Goku had a yellowish orange scouter. It will probably just be green in this version.
Image
I think so too, because it's green when he arrives with the rest of the team.
And you know how this full-color edition works: when the color scheme isn't consistant, the color considered as "weird compared to what we're used to" ("what we're used to" sometimes meaning the anime version) is discarded.

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Re: DBZ portion of Manga to be in full color?!

Post by Xagani » Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:27 pm

Even though it was stated that new videos on MANGAPOLO would be uploaded next Tuesday, a new one was uploaded yesterday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJfT6X0DrOY
and now an new one today:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyNrE3aYarQ

I guess they are uploading 1 new video everyday?
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Re: DBZ portion of Manga to be in full color?!

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:26 pm

Kuwabara wrote:
Cold Skin wrote:
Kuwabara wrote:Those 'motion comics' are complete garbage! :clap:

Based off that trailer, I was excited for something akin to what was done with Watchmen: The Complete Motion Comic. Instead, the chapters are poorly composed, poorly timed slide shows accompanied by stock music. This could have been a unique new take on the series, but it just turns out to be like most everything else that's come out in the last decade or so in the realm of Dragon Ball... Cheap or incomplete (or both).
With a one-week delay for four chapters (one for each part), you can't expect the same quality than on the general trailer.
As far as I'm concerned, I'd say those videos save the day, they were just what I needed!
I really don't know why I keep falling into this trap. :lol:
Then just don't buy them, since they don't seem to deserve their pric- oh, wait a minute. They are for free.
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Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: DBZ portion of Manga to be in full color?!

Post by Tyro » Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:46 pm

I hate to address the question like this given that it's somewhat taboo around here, but are these colors in the canon universe now? Or equivalently (I guess), how seriously should we take this? Do we scrap the idea that the Kame house is blue like in the Kanzenban in place of its new, white counterpart? I'm torn; I have a love for the full-color chapters but if it doesn't retain or contradicts the author's original artwork, I can't accept it as true to the series.

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Re: DBZ portion of Manga to be in full color?!

Post by MagicBox » Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:48 am

Nobody officially involved with the series is ever going to come out and say "these are the colors that count, so ignore the other ones." So you'd probably be able to pick which colors you prefer to accept just fine. You need only take this (or any) release as seriously as you'd like to.
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Re: DBZ portion of Manga to be in full color?!

Post by JeffJarrett » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:21 am

I don't think Toriyama's colors can be considered canon because they are too inconsistent. I don't know why some people are so obsessed with the official/original "manga colors" chosen by Toriyama, while in fact Toriyama doesn't chose fixed colors for his characters/locations. He usually changes the colors from time to time. About the famous Bulma's orginal purple hair: she debuted with blue hair in the very first chapter, and Toriyama later drew her with blonde hair in a power level list for V-Jump.

Image

Image

Also, if it's indeed Radiz's modified scouter that Bulma is wearing on the last image, it is once again blue.

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Re: DBZ portion of Manga to be in full color?!

Post by Raykugen » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:42 am

JeffJarrett wrote:---
About the original blue hair of Bulma you're right, but that list of V-jump isn't coloured by Toriyama, is something like a poor and bad done colouring with ridiculous colours as the first colours for Vegeta on the anime
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Re: DBZ portion of Manga to be in full color?!

Post by Cold Skin » Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:01 pm

Yeah, that list is not worth anything, you can even see that "radioactive" feel for black areas recolored like Kame Sennin or Tsuru Sennin's glasses and hat!
Some random, poorly done job that has nothing to do with Toriyama's original vision!

The full-color edition still has more new color schemes to reaveal for characters, as we could expect with little Gohan and Gyumao: it seems the Wereman facing Jackie Chun has a color scheme that is totally different in the newly-colored pages than in the anime version (judging by the "Character Project" render). I wonder how many alternative color schemes we'll find out about every week, it's quite exciting! 8)

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Re: DBZ portion of Manga to be in full color?!

Post by Cold Skin » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:48 pm

Tyro wrote:Do we scrap the idea that the Kame house is blue like in the Kanzenban in place of its new, white counterpart?
Well, if the one who drew the picture showing the structure of Kame House is Toriyama, then it's sure he didn't envision it as blue constantly anyway, and Kame House becomes one of those numerous elements for which you could not define a "real", definitive "Toriyama version" in the first place, along with Gohan's baby outfit and High School Gohan's training clothes. 8)

Then, to answer your more general question, it's up to you to decide what colors are the best for you.
Note that the following description is only about colors, not judging the products' quality overall, only talking about color choices:

- The anime version has made many changes to the author's vision, most of the time probably because they thought it would be good (better) that way. It has the advantage of being constant, save for an emergency change for Vegeta in Z.
It is the media taking the least the author's vision into account, transforming the product to what they see fit for their market. (which is normal since the media itself and market associated change, don't forget that it's an adaptation in the end)
- The original manga version keeps color pages just like the author envisionned and painted himself back then. You can't get any closer to the author's vision. However, you have to deal with sudden changes for a same outfit, and most pages are black and white.
It is totally the author's vision, but many pages are left without any color, since there were limits back then in terms of what the man could - and perhaps was willing to - do and what the manga staff could afford to do too.
- The new full-color manga version tries to magnify at best the author's vision by completing what they could not afford to do at the time (all pages in full colors), while taking some liberties when they think it's best precisely because now color pages are not just random surprises, but form a complete story. Also because the original author cannot be involved, so they try to imagine what he would make it like sometimes. It is somewhere between the original manga's "pure author vision" and the anime's "deciding those colors are better in this case", and are the official colors for the manga now, but not the author's original design.
It tries to build on the author's vision to improve his work, doing tasks he/they could not do at the time, but paradoxically has to take a few liberties to complete this mission.

One version doesn't overwrite the others, it depends on your own tastes (whether you think the author's vision will always be best, whether you think it is allowed to completely change it to improve it, whether you think that it is allowed if you don't change too many things, whether you think they've done good choices or poor choices...) and now you simply have three co-existing general color schemes:
- The "anime version".
- The "original manga version" or "Toriyama version".
- The "manga version" or "new manga version".

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Re: DBZ portion of Manga to be in full color?!

Post by AgitoZ » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:02 pm

Cold Skin wrote:- The new full-color manga version tries to magnify at best the author's vision by completing what they could not afford to do at the time (all pages in full colors), while taking some liberties when they think it's best precisely because now color pages are not just random surprises, but form a complete story.
The original comic is not incomplete.
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Re: DBZ portion of Manga to be in full color?!

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:15 pm

I don't know about you guys, but the colors from this re-re-re-re-release of the manga will be the canon ones for me.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: DBZ portion of Manga to be in full color?!

Post by JeffJarrett » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:47 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:I don't know about you guys, but the colors from this re-re-re-re-release of the manga will be the canon ones for me.
The full color manga Goku Arc starts with Goku's gi colored blue and Bulma's hair blue/green and then it suddenly changes to Goku's gi colored orange and Bulma's hair purple when they help Turtle and meet Roshi on the beach. The anime is way more consitant than any other media concerning the colors.

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Re: DBZ portion of Manga to be in full color?!

Post by Cold Skin » Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:20 pm

AgitoZ wrote:
Cold Skin wrote:- The new full-color manga version tries to magnify at best the author's vision by completing what they could not afford to do at the time (all pages in full colors), while taking some liberties when they think it's best precisely because now color pages are not just random surprises, but form a complete story.
The original comic is not incomplete.
I know. That's why I started by saying I was talking about colors only.
Color-wise, the original is not completely colored, the new version is color-complete, encompassing the complete story this time.

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Re: DBZ portion of Manga to be in full color?!

Post by Xagani » Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:46 pm

Another video is up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhyN3GVnphI

Edit: What are the chances of King Cold having a closer colour scheme to Freeza in the manga?
Like this:
Image
Last edited by Xagani on Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DBZ portion of Manga to be in full color?!

Post by JeffJarrett » Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:50 pm

Xagani wrote:Another video is up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhyN3GVnphI
Bulma looks like Colonel Violet

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Re: DBZ portion of Manga to be in full color?!

Post by AgitoZ » Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:53 pm

Cold Skin wrote:I know. That's why I started by saying I was talking about colors only.
Color-wise, the original is not completely colored, the new version is color-complete, encompassing the complete story this time.
It's an addition if anything. This might be a language thing, but calling it "color-complete" just rubs me the wrong way. Toriyama worked with the limitations he was given. The original did not have it nor did it need it.

I'd liken it to something like the Special Editions to Star Wars but I'm sure that's over exaggerating.
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Re: DBZ portion of Manga to be in full color?!

Post by Cold Skin » Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:57 am

AgitoZ wrote:
Cold Skin wrote:I know. That's why I started by saying I was talking about colors only.
Color-wise, the original is not completely colored, the new version is color-complete, encompassing the complete story this time.
It's an addition if anything. This might be a language thing, but calling it "color-complete" just rubs me the wrong way. Toriyama worked with the limitations he was given. The original did not have it nor did it need it.

I'd liken it to something like the Special Editions to Star Wars but I'm sure that's over exaggerating.
I know what you mean, and I understand your point of view, in the end it's really all a matter of point of view. 8)

As far as I'm concerned, I'm more into the Final Fantasy VII Advent Children point of view: to me, just like for this movie's staff, the fact of adding things retroactively makes the previous version incomplete.
For example, with that CGI movie, they released the movie. Then they went back to it, and added details to the graphics, half an hour of new scenes, changes in dialog... And they re-released it as Final Fantasy VII Advent Children COMPLETE.
And yet, initially, the base movie was a complete work in itself, they had put everything they wanted on it. But adding more things after a while, and since a new version that comes after the "complete" one cannot be "more than complete", it's the new version that is considered "complete" and the previous version retroactively becomes "incomplete".

But as I said, it's all a matter of point of view: for example, if you focus on the author's vision of things, it's the new version that is incomplete - showing some of his choices but masking some other choices with alternative coloring, or even just coloring his original black and white -, while the original version is the "complete Author's Vision".
It's like the difference between an Extended version and a Director's Cut, one doesn't involve the other. Some will consider the extended version as the complete work and the regular version as becoming a version that lacks scenes, while others will consider that the original is the complete version while the extended one is just a "bonus version" with more added material than needed, potentially messing with the author's actual vision.
It's also like a game's story with a game's DLC expanding on this story afterwards: some will consider the story is complete only with those story DLC added, while others will consider the story was complete to start with and that the DLC expansion of the story is just an extra.

So I choose to consider this new edition "complete" color-wise, but I keep considering the Kanzenban as generally the true, unaltered author's vision.
I like - and want - both versions, the one fully handled by the author, and the one having an external staff doing their best to magnify the experience.
I don't believe one is more legitimate than the other, they are both the official manga version, just available in two variations. 8)

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Re: DBZ portion of Manga to be in full color?!

Post by Tyro » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:42 pm

Cold Skin wrote:snip
Thanks for the response. That makes a lot of sense and it doesn't leave the in-universe universe in any worse shape than it was before, which is to say, the fans pick and choose the continuity. I've always kept my definition of canon pretty strict: kanzenban manga, non-contradicting information provided in the guidebooks, non-contradicting information in the interviews with Toriyama, you get the drift. So you can imagine the build-up and disappointment when I thought we were getting the DragonBox of the manga, only to find that they're picking and choosing some of the colors. So while I can't say that the colors are officially in my canon universe, the new coloring is beautiful and I intend to support this product. :)

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