Super Episode 125 (28 January 2018)

[Super_Divine_Genki]

I was definitely sold on this new Toppo look. Freeza got completely wrecked, and #17 was running for his life. The entire staff put out a very strong outing this week, and Yamaguchi once again comes through on the script, which looks to end this Super run. He has been solid since his Episode #96 debut.

[Gt91]

Didn't notice this:
[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

Fixed for ya.

Thanks, i was busy

[Miracles]

I'm assuming 17 has found that weakness. That Toppo has to charge his destruction before use.
Maybe he will let Vegeta know about this before his battle against the future Hakaishin.

[Doctor.]

I can't believe nobody's criticizing the fact that Toppo is spamming Hakais even though the attack should instantly kill anyone it hits. He's not using them strategically, as a way to bait them into dodging so they get caught by his next attack, he's legitimately trying to hit them with the attack. He was even surprised Freeza survived, which means he's going for the kill. How can he be this dumb?

[JazzMazz]

Eh, what he means by that still seems pretty vague to me, and even then, it pretty much demonstrates what I've been saying about the anime staff having a bit of creative freedom.

There is nothing Vague about a direct statement of Toriyama stating he hasn't checked the script YET.

Even if Toriyama did check the final script for each episode extensively, then there would still be two levels of corrections that the script could go through before the episode aired, namely storyboarding and the final direction, both stages can choose to cut out scenes they believe are unnecessary, or add scenes they believe that are needed, even if he is as heavily involved as your implying, he still wouldn't get the final say how everything is presented.

[Miracles]

I can't believe nobody's criticizing the fact that Toppo is spamming Hakais even though the attack should instantly kill anyone it hits. He's not using them strategically, as a way to bait them into dodging so they get caught by his next attack, he's legitimately trying to hit them with the attack. He was even surprised Freeza survived, which means he's going for the kill. How can he be this dumb?

Toppo stated later he was not trying to kill Freeza due to disqualification. So obviously he had this mindset while firing destruction before.
Toppo can hold back or characters can still be stronger as we've seen with Freeza overcoming Sidra's little destruction energy.

[Pannaliciour]

I can't believe nobody's criticizing the fact that Toppo is spamming Hakais even though the attack should instantly kill anyone it hits. He's not using them strategically, as a way to bait them into dodging so they get caught by his next attack, he's legitimately trying to hit them with the attack. He was even surprised Freeza survived, which means he's going for the kill. How can he be this dumb?

Toppo stated later he was not trying to kill Freeza due to disqualification. So obviously he had this mindset while firing destruction before.
Toppo can hold back or characters can still be stronger as we've seen with Freeza overcoming Sidra's little destruction energy.

This sounds weird but erasing somebody is not killing him? Maybe its allowed.

[mAcChaos]

During this episode all I can think was this

'freeza has learned nothing from his time on Namek about going out of his way to antagonize a fighter who can give him a hard time.'

If Freeza couldn't use his power to bully people then he wouldn't see the point of having the power in the first place.

[JazzMazz]

Well, excuse me if my opinions are "shit". I could say the same for a bunch of people which I disagree, like those people who exaggerate everyweek saying "this is the greatest episode of the franchise lmao". I did find the episode to be boring as hell, though. Last episode, despite having almost no new animation, was much more entertaining. Perhaps because I don't give a shit to Toppo or Jiren, but episodes foccused on them can't fail to bore me.

I'm not calling your opinions shit, I'm saying that to make a big deal (or any kind of deal at all) about something as minor as Freeza's eye being open in one scene and closed in the other is pretty dumb.

Oh, sorry then.
Sure, but that wansn't what I said. The whole scene where he tries to stop the Hakai is exactly like when he tried to stop the Genki Dama at Namek. To his facial expressions, to his quotes and to the storyboard. And, like I said to Artorias, this is just a culmination of all the annoyance that those callbacks since RoF arc have given me. It isn't about this particular episode. Dragon Ball doesn't need this fanservice galore to be successful, and that's what saddens me. Sorry again if that wasn't made clear enough.

To put it simply, though it does share a lot of similarities with the spirit bomb scene, it more than stands on its own as its own scene and exists more for just the purpose of a neat callback, thats what seperates say the callbacks in this episode to say what happened in the ROF arc, which simply existed for shock factor and didn't have the direction to make it anything other than that. The callbacks in this episode at least served the purpose of furthering the plot and there were big discrepancies between the reference and the original.

The only real statement that I don't see how you can back up is how last episode was better or at least more entertaining than this episode, since this episode is literally better in every single respect; overall narrative content, character writing, music placement, atmosphere and overall memorability and execution. Its literally better in every conceivable way.

During this episode all I can think was this

'freeza has learned nothing from his time on Namek about going out of his way to antagonize a fighter who can give him a hard time.'

If Freeza couldn't use his power to bully people then he wouldn't see the point of having the power in the first place.

No truer words were ever spoken about Freeza.

[Amir]

I can't believe nobody's criticizing the fact that Toppo is spamming Hakais even though the attack should instantly kill anyone it hits. He's not using them strategically, as a way to bait them into dodging so they get caught by his next attack, he's legitimately trying to hit them with the attack. He was even surprised Freeza survived, which means he's going for the kill. How can he be this dumb?

Agreed. The writers dropped the ball on that one, I have no idea what went through their head when they did that.
I can't think of any legit reason to ignore that point.

[JazzMazz]

I can't believe nobody's criticizing the fact that Toppo is spamming Hakais even though the attack should instantly kill anyone it hits. He's not using them strategically, as a way to bait them into dodging so they get caught by his next attack, he's legitimately trying to hit them with the attack. He was even surprised Freeza survived, which means he's going for the kill. How can he be this dumb?

Agreed. The writers dropped the ball on that one, I have no idea what went through their head when they did that.
I can't think of any legit reason to ignore that point.

But they didn't ignore it, in fact, Toppo makes it very clear he knows the rules of the tournament, and that blast wouldn't kill Freeza.

[Amir]

I can't believe nobody's criticizing the fact that Toppo is spamming Hakais even though the attack should instantly kill anyone it hits. He's not using them strategically, as a way to bait them into dodging so they get caught by his next attack, he's legitimately trying to hit them with the attack. He was even surprised Freeza survived, which means he's going for the kill. How can he be this dumb?

Agreed. The writers dropped the ball on that one, I have no idea what went through their head when they did that.
I can't think of any legit reason to ignore that point.

But they didn't ignore it, in fact, Toppo makes it very clear he knows the rules of the tournament, and that blast wouldn't kill Freeza.

Not buying that. Toppo clearly was surprised Frieza was even alive, he was going for the kill with that hakai.
Hakai is an attack that erases people from existence and Frieza was lucky to survive.

[JazzMazz]

Agreed. The writers dropped the ball on that one, I have no idea what went through their head when they did that.
I can't think of any legit reason to ignore that point.

But they didn't ignore it, in fact, Toppo makes it very clear he knows the rules of the tournament, and that blast wouldn't kill Freeza.

Not buying that. Toppo clearly was surprised Frieza was even alive, he was going for the kill with that hakai.
Hakai is an attack that erases people from existence and Frieza was lucky to survive.

He wasn't surprised he was alive, he was surprised that he wasn't completely overwhelmed and was able to resist the attack, its a pretty normal thing for another character to say after taking such a big attack.

[ernesth100]

Either way the episode, while amazing in terms of action and art has a large plot hole that I'm sure the writers are gonna ignore. If Hakai erases people, how come Toppo is even allowed to use it. Toppo should've been disqualified the moment he used it against Frieza, it's a highly unfair advantage to U11. Jiren's already stronger than a GoD. Now we have a GoD running around the tournament stage splitting the arena in half, I'm pretty sure he was flying too at some point. Toppo is a walking list of broken rules and the Omni-Kings are probably gonna allow it cause it's cool and it's the last few minutes. But still, can't wait to see what they pull out their ass to get Toppo out of the way.

[JazzMazz]

Either way the episode, while amazing in terms of action and art has a large plot hole that I'm sure the writers are gonna ignore. If Hakai erases people, how come Toppo is even allowed to use it. Toppo should've been disqualified the moment he used it against Frieza, it's a highly unfair advantage to U11. Jiren's already stronger than a GoD. Now we have a GoD running around the tournament stage splitting the arena in half, I'm pretty sure he was flying too at some point. Toppo is a walking list of broken rules and the Omni-Kings are probably gonna allow it cause it's cool and it's the last few minutes. But still, can't wait to see what they pull out their ass to get Toppo out of the way.

But there is no problem with using OP attacks if you're the one who generates them and they don't actually do end up killing anyone. Thats like saying you can't use the Kamehameha because that shit can disintergrate people. Toppo hasn't broken any rules, he hasn't killed anyone, its not against the rules to break the stage, and its physically impossible for him to fly around.

[Dbzk1999]

Either way the episode, while amazing in terms of action and art has a large plot hole that I'm sure the writers are gonna ignore. If Hakai erases people, how come Toppo is even allowed to use it. Toppo should've been disqualified the moment he used it against Frieza, it's a highly unfair advantage to U11. Jiren's already stronger than a GoD. Now we have a GoD running around the tournament stage splitting the arena in half, I'm pretty sure he was flying too at some point. Toppo is a walking list of broken rules and the Omni-Kings are probably gonna allow it cause it's cool and it's the last few minutes. But still, can't wait to see what they pull out their ass to get Toppo out of the way.

It’s not a plot hole.

Did it kill Freeza? No? Then he’s still in. Simple as that. Those sidra episodes blatantly showed that it’s possible to withstand attacks of that nature if the person is strong enough.

[ernesth100]

But there is no problem with using OP attacks if you're the one who generates them and they don't actually do end up killing anyone. Thats like saying you can't use the Kamehameha because that shit can disintergrate people. Toppo hasn't broken any rules, he hasn't killed anyone, its not against the rules to break the stage, and its physically impossible for him to fly around.

He definately flew when he was chasing after Android 17 and Frieza. Unless he just so happens to have prolonged airtime. Then again this all happened in a minute so...yeah.

It’s not a plot hole.

Did it kill Freeza? No? Then he’s still in. Simple as that. Those sidra episodes blatantly showed that it’s possible to withstand attacks of that nature if the person is strong enough.

It doesn't have to kill him. Zeno and the Grand Priest should know first hand how deadly Hakai is, he should not at all be allowed to use such a power.

[JazzMazz]

But there is no problem with using OP attacks if you're the one who generates them and they don't actually do end up killing anyone. Thats like saying you can't use the Kamehameha because that shit can disintergrate people. Toppo hasn't broken any rules, he hasn't killed anyone, its not against the rules to break the stage, and its physically impossible for him to fly around.

He definately flew when he was chasing after Android 17 and Frieza. Unless he just so happens to have prolonged airtime. Then again this all happened in a minute so...yeah.

It’s not a plot hole.

Did it kill Freeza? No? Then he’s still in. Simple as that. Those sidra episodes blatantly showed that it’s possible to withstand attacks of that nature if the person is strong enough.

It doesn't have to kill him. Zeno and the Grand Priest should know first hand how deadly Hakai is, he should not at all be allowed to use such a power.

Prolonged jumping is a thing guys, even the original Dragonball tournaments, when the characters couldn't fly demonstrated this.

Also, again, why should he be disqualified if it doesn't end up killing anyone?

All freaking attacks in Dragonball are dangerous, its like saying that Goku should be disqualified because the Kamehameha or the kienzan could kill someone.

[ernesth100]

Prolonged jumping is a thing guys, even the original Dragonball tournaments, when the characters couldn't fly demonstrated this.

Also, again, why should he be disqualified if it doesn't end up killing anyone?

All freaking attacks in Dragonball are dangerous, its like saying that Goku should be disqualified because the Kamehameha or the kienzan could kill someone.

You're missing the point. None of those attacks are near as powerful as Hakai. Hakai is literally a force for erasure. Goku wouldn't ever deliberately try to destroy someone with that wave, and no one in their right mind would aim a Kienzan at an opponent they know it would kill. Toppo however is firing these blasts that are literally disintegrating everything in their path with an aura around his body that makes him virtually untouchable by any energy attack. Ya'll don't think that's a little unfair?

[ToshioWrites]

You can’t DQ someone for what they could do or might do. Toppo hasn’t killed/erased anyone so he’s safe.

Anyways Why is Goku the only one allowed to “control ki and energy” , Toppo knows how much energy he can use and not kill Freeza or 17. Hakai isn’t 100% gtd erasure , if you are strong enough you can survive