The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Roronoa-pt]

Answering ZombieVito & Doctor

Super!Tagoma vs Perfect Cell - Thanks to his OP defense, Tagoma wins after a hard battle
Manga!Frost vs Perfect Cell - Is this Frost Final Form ? He's superior to Piccolo who was seen to fighting on par with a Gohan who regained most of his Mystic powers. Frost Final Form wins with low difficulty.
Super!Tagoma vs Manga!Frost - Frost wins with mid difficutly.

- Future Dabura vs Dabura. No spit.
- SSJ3 Gotenks [No time limit] and Ultimate Gohan [Boo arc] vs Final form Freeza [RoF arc; Can't use Golden form].
- All Future Babarians vs Radditz.
- Shisami [RoF arc] vs Zarbon [Monster form].
- Future Trunks [Super form and Genki Sword] and Vegetto [Super Saiyan Blue; No time limit] vs Beerus.

- Could go either way. They seem to have the same power level.
- Final Form Freeza wins after a hard battle
- Raditz turns into Oozaru and stomps
- Shishami one shots
- Beerus powers up until he reaches 85% of his power, one shots Trunks and manages to defeat Vegetto Blue.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Future 18 vs final form Cooler, 100% Frieza, and King Cold

Cooler solos. Even if you ignore his stated 470 million BP, he still has to be around 250-300 million at minimum. Goku becomes a lot stronger after he recovers in that cave and displays enough power using only Kaioken to make Cooler think that that was the power Goku used to defeat Frieza, so assuming Goku used Kaioken x20, it'd be fair to say his base is around 7 million which would put his SSJ at 350 million. Cooler is able to completely tank and thrash Kaioken Goku and was also able to push SSJ Goku to his limits with that Supernova, so I'd estimate his BP to be 280 million, 2x stronger than Kkx20 Goku and with SSJ Goku having a 1.25x advantage over him.

Trunks is already capable of matching the future androids by the time he comes back from the future and at that time he was a good deal weaker than SSJ Vegeta and Goku, so he can't be all that strong. I'd say his BP around that time was 5 million or so with his SSJ being 250 million, so Future 18 would be slightly weaker at 225-240 million giving Cooler a clear advantage over her.

The Cooler movie is supposed to take place before the androids show up so Goku should be considered weaker than then. Goku didn't show anything to prove he was strong as you are saying he is.

Here are my numbers

Namek saga
base Goku: 3 m
ssj Goku: 150 m
Frieza: 120 m

Mecha Frieza arives
King Cold: 100 m (said to be slightly inferior to Frieza in the Daizenshuu)
Mecha Freeza: 130 m (he said he got slighty stronger)
ssj Trunks: 160 m
Yadrat ssj Goku: 170 m

Cooler movie
base Goku: 3.5 m
ssj Goku: 175 m
Cooler: 140 m

future 18: 180
present 18: 200

The Frieza family are pretty much supposed to be inferior to ssj while the androids are portrayed as stronger than ssj. However the Frieza family is still extremely powerful and together I do think they could pull a win, but Cooler definitely shouldn't solo.

The movies mostly ignore canon logic. Also, Goku did have the feats to show him being that powerful. When he fights Cooler with Kaioken Cooler says he sees how his brother was defeated, this implies Goku became strong enough to beat Frieza using only Kaioken. Also, he got a huge Zenkai after recovering in that cave as in the beginning he was having trouble with Cooler's armored squadron but now he's able to effortlessly tank Salza's punch without even noticing it.

Present Zamasu (not immortal) VS DBS SSJ2 Future Trunks (hypothetical Post-SSJG Ritual)

Present Zamasu gets beaten unless he can pull clever Kaioshin tricks like materializing Katchin and paralysis and whatnot.

My fights:

- Future Dabura vs Dabura. No spit.
- SSJ3 Gotenks [No time limit] and Ultimate Gohan [Boo arc] vs Final form Freeza [RoF arc; Can't use Golden form].
- All Future Babarians vs Radditz.
- Shisami [RoF arc] vs Zarbon [Monster form].
- Future Trunks [Super form and Genki Sword] and Vegetto [Super Saiyan Blue; No time limit] vs Beerus.

- Probably a tie, I doubt Dabura trains.

- Frieza oneshots both without even trying, he's able to put up a fight against Base Goku who far outclasses both Gotenks and Gohan.

- The Future Barbarians, assuming there's at least a few thousand of them they could just wear him down until he dies of exhaustion.

- Shisami oneshots Zarbon, he's on a completely different level.

- Beerus erases both using a fraction of his power.

[DanielSSJ]

Okay new fights!
-Tao Pai Pai (Organic) VS Oozaru Goku (Beginning Of Series)
-Chiaotzu (22nd Budokai) VS Grandpa Son Gohan
-Yamcha (23rd Budokai) VS Tenshinhan (22nd Budokai)
-Tenshinhan (23rd Budokai) VS Goku (Piccolo Daimao Arc, Post Choshinsui)
-Chiaotzu (23rd Budokai) VS Kame-sennin (22nd Budokai)

- I suspect that Tao Pai Pai is close to the level that Great Ape Goku was at, in terms of Ki, but Ki wasn't the main deciding factor in fights back then. Great Ape Goku has a massive advantage in regards to physical strength and durability, so unless Tao Pai Pai miraculously discovers Goku's tail weakness, he get's stomped. Literally.
- I suspect that Grandpa Gohan is roughly as strong as Kuririn was during the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai, and would be Chiaotzu's superior in terms of raw power. While he would be susceptible to Chiaotzu's psychic powers, Chiaotzu is an idiot and Gohan has much more practice with the Kamehameha than Kuririn did, so overall, I'd give it to Gohan.
- Yamcha's usually the one lagging behind the other Earthling fighters and his official battle power is inferior to Tenshinhan's. Odds are that Tenshinhan wins, but it won't be easy.
- Again, official numbers say that Goku is superior, but I bet that this Goku would succumb to the new-and-improved Tenshinhan's superior speed and battle tactics, specifically that four eye beams attack that he used at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai.
- I'm not 100% sure, but I think Muten Roshi said that all of the younger guys have surpassed him by that point. If the old timer could pull off a Max Power Kamehameha, I'd bet that it would be enough to finish Chiaotzu off, but there isn't a 100% guarantee that it'd even land.

My fights:

- Future Dabura vs Dabura. No spit.
- SSJ3 Gotenks [No time limit] and Ultimate Gohan [Boo arc] vs Final form Freeza [RoF arc; Can't use Golden form].
- All Future Babarians vs Radditz.
- Shisami [RoF arc] vs Zarbon [Monster form].
- Future Trunks [Super form and Genki Sword] and Vegetto [Super Saiyan Blue; No time limit] vs Beerus.

- The two are dead even in strength and skill. Coin-flip says Present Dabra wins.
- I don't have conclusive evidence, but I suspect that even the newly improved Freeza would have difficulties against both Gohan and Gotenks at their peak without his Golden form. I suspect that there was a reason why Gohan wasn't Ultimate and why Gotenks wasn't present in Resurrection F.
- No real way to tell, but I would put my money on Raditz.
- If it's Film Shisami, he's nearing Piccolo's level of power and crushes Zarbon into paste. If it's TV Shisami, there's no way to tell. Coin flip says Zarbon wins.
- Again, no real way to tell, but if any one of the heroes can beat Beerus, it would be Vegetto, especially with Gary Stu Saiyan Trunks backing him up.

[TheUltimateNinja]

- I don't have conclusive evidence, but I suspect that even the newly improved Freeza would have difficulties against both Gohan and Gotenks at their peak without his Golden form. I suspect that there was a reason why Gohan wasn't Ultimate and why Gotenks wasn't present in Resurrection F.

- Gohan did retain some of his Ultimate power in the F arc, even in his base form he was already stronger than Piccolo. Anyway, neither of them stand a chance against Final Form Frieza. Frieza could put up a fight against Base Goku who completely outclasses Ultimate Gohan.

[apex_pretador]

Super!Tagoma vs Perfect Cell
Manga!Frost vs Perfect Cell
Super!Tagoma vs Manga!Frost

Tagoma. Perfect cell would never own CG Goku like tagoma did to piccolo.

Frost. Perfect cell may have been a worthy opponent for SSgoku before training with whis, but after that, he is insanely powerful and his base already rivals cell. Frost is far more powerful compared to base goku.

My fights:

- Future Dabura vs Dabura. No spit.
- SSJ3 Gotenks [No time limit] and Ultimate Gohan [Boo arc] vs Final form Freeza [RoF arc; Can't use Golden form].
- All Future Babarians vs Radditz.
- Shisami [RoF arc] vs Zarbon [Monster form].
- Future Trunks [Super form and Genki Sword] and Vegetto [Super Saiyan Blue; No time limit] vs Beerus.

The pink demon king with magic wins.

Is freeza restricted to the power he used against Base goku? If so, then duo wins. If freeza is allowed to use full power of his white form, then he kills them both with a fingerpoke.

Raditz

Shisame for me. He was implied to be powerful.

Vegetto vs beerus can't be compared by any means because we have no indication.
Trunks can't do anything to beerus.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Galactus fought oblivion? When?

I think it was in a Thor annual or so I recall hearing.

Galan is not strong enough to destroy multiverse, or even universe. Top Abstracts (eternity, infinity, Oblivion and Death) operate on multiversal level but galactus doesn't. He has been given troubles by Thanos, Odin, Inbetweener etc.

The fact is he's theoretically equal to all of those abstracts you mentioned but he is often weaker than them because of his hunger.

[apex_pretador]

Galactus fought oblivion? When?

I think it was in a Thor annual or so I recall hearing.

Galan is not strong enough to destroy multiverse, or even universe. Top Abstracts (eternity, infinity, Oblivion and Death) operate on multiversal level but galactus doesn't. He has been given troubles by Thanos, Odin, Inbetweener etc.

The fact is he's theoretically equal to all of those abstracts you mentioned but he is often weaker than them because of his hunger.

He is not theoritically equal to eternity & co. He acts as a force of nature, a third force after eternity and death. They consider galan their brother because just like them, he was created before the birth of the universe itself.

Marvel has over and over again shown that they treat Abstracts as well above galactus
Like this:



Or Infinity gauntlet, where Galactus and Stranger and 2 celestials and Chaos and Order and Love and Hate and Kronos had a combined attack on Thanos while Eternity had an actual solo fight with him later after all of them were defeated.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Galactus and Eternity regard each other as equals as you can see here:

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/ba ... tus-26027/

He, Eternity, and Death are all siblings and forces of nature. Galactus is just weaker most of the time because he becomes weaker with hunger. If he could be fully satiated he would equal them.

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/or ... ings02.jpg

[dragon boss z]

The movies mostly ignore canon logic. Also, Goku did have the feats to show him being that powerful. When he fights Cooler with Kaioken Cooler says he sees how his brother was defeated, this implies Goku became strong enough to beat Frieza using only Kaioken. Also, he got a huge Zenkai after recovering in that cave as in the beginning he was having trouble with Cooler's armored squadron but now he's able to effortlessly tank Salza's punch without even noticing it.

That doesn't mean Goku kaioken is stronger than Frieza 100%. Cooler might of thought Goku killed Frieza before transforming to his final form or before he went full power.
As for the Salza punch, Salza should of been able to phase Goku in the first place because Goku's power level should of been at least 3m at the start of the movie and Salza should of been under 530,000.

[dragon boss z]

Super!Tagoma vs Perfect Cell
Manga!Frost vs Perfect Cell
Super!Tagoma vs Manga!Frost

Tagoma. Perfect cell would never own CG Goku like tagoma did to piccolo.

Frost. Perfect cell may have been a worthy opponent for SSgoku before training with whis, but after that, he is insanely powerful and his base already rivals cell. Frost is far more powerful compared to base goku.

Manga Frost probably isn't stronger than Perfect Cell. If he is it's not by much. In the manga Goku never absorbs god ki into his base and ssj form and he is only slightly stronger than his Buu saga self.

[TheUltimateNinja]

The movies mostly ignore canon logic. Also, Goku did have the feats to show him being that powerful. When he fights Cooler with Kaioken Cooler says he sees how his brother was defeated, this implies Goku became strong enough to beat Frieza using only Kaioken. Also, he got a huge Zenkai after recovering in that cave as in the beginning he was having trouble with Cooler's armored squadron but now he's able to effortlessly tank Salza's punch without even noticing it.

That doesn't mean Goku kaioken is stronger than Frieza 100%. Cooler might of thought Goku killed Frieza before transforming to his final form or before he went full power.
As for the Salza punch, Salza should of been able to phase Goku in the first place because Goku's power level should of been at least 3m at the start of the movie and Salza should of been under 530,000.

But Cooler's lackeys were probably around 2-3 million in terms of power. Salza was able to give Piccolo some trouble on his own and the three of them teaming up against Goku actually made things very difficult for him.

[ryan1227]

And last episode stated Whis > SsjB Vegito btw, but that was obvious.

What? When?

Okay new fights!
-Tao Pai Pai (Organic) VS Oozaru Goku (Beginning Of Series)
-Chiaotzu (22nd Budokai) VS Grandpa Son Gohan
-Yamcha (23rd Budokai) VS Tenshinhan (22nd Budokai)
-Tenshinhan (23rd Budokai) VS Goku (Piccolo Daimao Arc, Post Choshinsui)
-Chiaotzu (23rd Budokai) VS Kame-sennin (22nd Budokai)

- Gohan was stronger than Tao Pai Pai, yet he got killed by Oozaru Goku. Unless Goku killed Gohan while he was sleeping, or Gohan got stronger in the afterlife, I see no way for Tao to win this battle.
- Even before telekinesis, Chaozu fought almost on par with Kuririn, who judging by his performance against Goku, should've surpassed Gohan. Chaozu wins a fight for once.
- Yamcha flicks Ten away like a bug. Yamcha tripped Shen off his feet with a Sokidan, and also followed Tenshinhan's and Weighted Goku's fight, which was about the same speed as Goku's and Piccolo Daimao's fight.
- Tenshinhan fought on par with a Goku that was stated to be stronger than post water Goku. Tenshinhan wins without much trouble.
- There's really no way to compare the two, but I'd go with Chaozu regardless.

[dragon boss z]

But Cooler's lackeys were probably around 2-3 million in terms of power. Salza was able to give Piccolo some trouble on his own and the three of them teaming up against Goku actually made things very difficult for him.

There is no way Cooler's lackeys are that strong. They should all be weaker than Frieza's first form. V-jump put them all in the high 100 thousands, but V-jump isn't a good source so don't consider that official. For some reason they gave Dore a higher power level than Salza, lol. but anyways they should all be somewhere in the low hundred thousands.

[TheUltimateNinja]

But Cooler's lackeys were probably around 2-3 million in terms of power. Salza was able to give Piccolo some trouble on his own and the three of them teaming up against Goku actually made things very difficult for him.

There is no way Cooler's lackeys are that strong. They should all be weaker than Frieza's first form. V-jump put them all in the high 100 thousands, but V-jump isn't a good source so don't consider that official. For some reason they gave Dore a higher power level than Salza, lol. but anyways they should all be somewhere in the low hundred thousands.

In that case they would be oneshot material to Goku and Piccolo, the fact that they are able to challenge them puts them at 3rd form Frieza level at minimum.

[ZombieVito]

- I don't have conclusive evidence, but I suspect that even the newly improved Freeza would have difficulties against both Gohan and Gotenks at their peak without his Golden form. I suspect that there was a reason why Gohan wasn't Ultimate and why Gotenks wasn't present in Resurrection F.

- Gohan did retain some of his Ultimate power in the F arc, even in his base form he was already stronger than Piccolo. Anyway, neither of them stand a chance against Final Form Frieza. Frieza could put up a fight against Base Goku who completely outclasses Ultimate Gohan.

I'm not so sure about that. Copy Vegeta (Who is equal to a 3 year post RoSaT + U6 tournament Vegeta) couldn't one shot Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks.

[TheUltimateNinja]

- I don't have conclusive evidence, but I suspect that even the newly improved Freeza would have difficulties against both Gohan and Gotenks at their peak without his Golden form. I suspect that there was a reason why Gohan wasn't Ultimate and why Gotenks wasn't present in Resurrection F.

- Gohan did retain some of his Ultimate power in the F arc, even in his base form he was already stronger than Piccolo. Anyway, neither of them stand a chance against Final Form Frieza. Frieza could put up a fight against Base Goku who completely outclasses Ultimate Gohan.

I'm not so sure about that. Copy Vegeta (Who is equal to a 3 year post RoSaT + U6 tournament Vegeta) couldn't one shot Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks.

He most likely wasn't going all out.

[ekrolo2]

Super Saiyan Ultimate Gohan (So, Gohan from the Boo arc after his potential is unlocked getting an x50 boost) vs Super Vegetto.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Super Saiyan Ultimate Gohan (So, Gohan from the Boo arc after his potential is unlocked getting an x50 boost) vs Super Vegetto.

Vegetto gets stomped hard. It'd take SSJ3 Vegetto to win here.

[ekrolo2]

Super Saiyan Ultimate Gohan (So, Gohan from the Boo arc after his potential is unlocked getting an x50 boost) vs Super Vegetto.

Vegetto gets stomped hard. It'd take SSJ3 Vegetto to win here.

How would he fare against Anime Super Vegetto? Does he have a snowballs chance in hell or would he need SS2 to even match him?

[TheUltimateNinja]

Super Saiyan Ultimate Gohan (So, Gohan from the Boo arc after his potential is unlocked getting an x50 boost) vs Super Vegetto.

Vegetto gets stomped hard. It'd take SSJ3 Vegetto to win here.

How would he fare against Anime Super Vegetto? Does he have a snowballs chance in hell or would he need SS2 to even match him?

Anime Super Vegetto wrecks SSJ Gohan easily, he's as about as strong as Ultimate Buu in base. Gohan couldn't win with SSJ2 either as though he'd be close in power Vegetto is far more skilled than him.