The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Kaboom]

Three of them at 3000 or so versus Nappa at around 4000... I think they'd be able to wear him down after a while.

[Super Vegetto]

Three of them at 3000 or so versus Nappa at around 4000... I think they'd be able to wear him down after a while.

I was on pojo thread arguing about Goku beeing 8,000 > Nappa 4,000,,,they say most of them Nappa and Goku were closer in gap and that there is no way Goku is 2x stronger than Nappa,,,since i heard Daizenshuu is not original source like manga but its only guid book it seams then that how can any power level be right if daizenshuu is wrong,,,so only manga power levels are one that everyone looks at ?,,is it wrong or right and is there also any power level that is in daizenshuu but its somehow pretty wrong ? explanation ? grammar bad i know...

[Kaboom]

Well, while most of DBZ may boil down to "the stronger person wins," there's no real rules for how strong one has to be in order to still put up a fight. Heck, Kuririn put up a better fight against Nappa than Nappa did against Goku, and he was at just as much, if not more, of a power disadvantage (almost 1800, less than half of Nappa's 4000).

There's always other things that factor into a fight besides raw power. Kuririn did well because he was much smaller and faster than Nappa, able to land quick hits and dodge easily. As for Nappa against Goku, there's a lot to say that Nappa is simply extremely durable. He kept easily bouncing back from not only Goku's blows, but everything the others threw at him before that. He brushed off Chaozu's self-destruction and Tenshinhan's Kikoho like they were nothing. At one point Goku even compliments Nappa on how "tough" he is.

In the end, though, Nappa really didn't do that well against Goku. Once he calmed down, he was able to see him move well enough to dodge once or twice, but that's about it. He never managed to land a single blow on Goku, and even his ultimate attack was easily countered.

[Super Vegetto]

Well, while most of DBZ may boil down to "the stronger person wins," there's no real rules for how strong one has to be in order to still put up a fight. Heck, Kuririn put up a better fight against Nappa than Nappa did against Goku, and he was at just as much, if not more, of a power disadvantage (almost 1800, less than half of Nappa's 4000).

There's always other things that factor into a fight besides raw power. Kuririn did well because he was much smaller and faster than Nappa, able to land quick hits and dodge easily. As for Nappa against Goku, there's a lot to say that Nappa is simply extremely durable. He kept easily bouncing back from not only Goku's blows, but everything the others threw at him before that. He brushed off Chaozu's self-destruction and Tenshinhan's Kikoho like they were nothing. At one point Goku even compliments Nappa on how "tough" he is.

In the end, though, Nappa really didn't do that well against Goku. Once he calmed down, he was able to see him move well enough to dodge once or twice, but that's about it. He never managed to land a single blow on Goku, and even his ultimate attack was easily countered.

Same here, if Gohan not even enraged managed to kick him once so hard that he started bleading means he cant be close to Goku... only statment they have is by Gokus words: "this may take whole day" and how Goku couldn't outspeed Nappa so that by their words is close gap, one guy even says Piccolo is not 3500 which doesnt make sence since he trained hard for saiyans and most important he is Namek not Human...but still they deny the Daizenshuu with just saying Nappa is close to Goku...and they are suposed to be veterans xD nothing but a joke..

[dario03]

Personally I always thought it would of made more sense for Nappa to have been more like 6,000 or 7,000 or maybe even 8,000 (Even with only a slight advantage Goku being faster and a more calm skilled fighter could allow him to win easily) . 4,000 can work because Goku without Kaio-Ken was less than half as strong as Vegeta (8,xxx vs ~18,000) and that went about as well as Napa vs Goku. However to me it just doesn't make sense for Nappa to be weaker than Goku was while supressed. When Vegeta tells Napa that Kakarot is coming he says his power is 5,000 which shocks Napa but yet when Goku arrives Napa still acts like he will win easily. And then when Goku powers up (which I guess maybe Napa forgot about that being a possibility even though all the others had done it) it's over 8,000. Being over 8,000 is enough to anger Napa but even then he still thinks he can win and Vegeta allows him to fight. So to me it just doesn't make sense. If Napa was only at 4,000 then I think he should of been worried from the start and Vegeta should of just fought Goku from the start and told Napa to take care of Gohan and Krillin.

[Super Vegetto]

Personally I always thought it would of made more sense for Nappa to have been more like 6,000 or 7,000 or maybe even 8,000 (Even with only a slight advantage Goku being faster and a more calm skilled fighter could allow him to win easily) . 4,000 can work because Goku without Kaio-Ken was less than half as strong as Vegeta (8,xxx vs ~18,000) and that went about as well as Napa vs Goku. However to me it just doesn't make sense for Nappa to be weaker than Goku was while supressed. When Vegeta tells Napa that Kakarot is coming he says his power is 5,000 which shocks Napa but yet when Goku arrives Napa still acts like he will win easily. And then when Goku powers up (which I guess maybe Napa forgot about that being a possibility even though all the others had done it) it's over 8,000. Being over 8,000 is enough to anger Napa but even then he still thinks he can win and Vegeta allows him to fight. So to me it just doesn't make sense. If Napa was only at 4,000 then I think he should of been worried from the start and Vegeta should of just fought Goku from the start and told Napa to take care of Gohan and Krillin.

Nappa was worried about Gokus 5,000 and he says to Vegeta that scouter is probably broken,,,When Goku arrived Nappa is like typical elite saiyan that still think low calls cant surpass elite,,same goes for Vegeta in Saiyan saga…Nappa and Vegeta probably didnt knowd that Gokus level is supressed at time he was coming to them since he is more skilld when he rise his power level against Raditz without getting angry like Krillin or Gohan but Vegeta though it could be trouble if he can raise his power level so rest of z fighters > Nappa and Vegeta,,it is clear to anyone with eyes that Nappa was giving it all he has while Goku wasn't even trying,, Nappa's full powered mouth blast the worst Goku got was sweaty armpits.,,and yea Goku thought he probably isnt in full power so he says "it can take some time",,and Nappa reply with "that was my ultimate technique"… and Vegeta alowing Nappa to fight is because he whants to see Gokus strenght and after Nappas blast from mouth I'm pretty sure Nappa discrased Vegeta with his performans so he call him out,,,i would put Nappa highest on 5000 but even that seams to much…i go with Daizenshuu over everyone word,,its like Frieza 50 % vs Goku 20x Kamehameha,,,Frieza alsmot died and he says that in manga but everyone think he power up to 60 or 70 % to prevent blast which is realy stupid cuz of scene where Freeza stops it with one hand,,Manga,,Daizenshuu,,> the fans power levels….

[Mystic Gohan]

I have nappa at 6,500. The reason he did moderately not terrible was because of his ridiculous durability. For all you guys that take the daishenzuu by law, you better damn take every thing the guidebook says and not cherry pick.

[Fox666]

I have Cui at 11,500. Vegeta killed him with a Kiai attack, there is no way Cui is at 18,000.

[CatouttaHell]

I have nappa at 6,500. The reason he did moderately not terrible was because of his ridiculous durability. For all you guys that take the daishenzuu by law, you better damn take every thing the guidebook says and not cherry pick.

Agreed. Most people who bitch and moan about others not following the guidebooks don't even follow them entirely themselves.

The guidebooks say that SSjin Goten (Pre) = SSjin Gohan and that Base Chibi Trunks > No. 18 (which are both true) yet I do not recall anybody but Gojirason and dbgtFO following those statements.

[Kaboom]

To keep things back on topic, here's a sorta-kinda versus match.

Vegeta shows up to help during Movie 10.

Let's assume it happens right after Gohan and Broly both transform. Vegeta had been observing from some distance away, but once he sensed Broly's full power, he decides to step in. So it basically becomes a 2-vs-1 fight, with Mr. Musclehead taking on both Gohan and Vegeta at the same time.

Personally, I think Broly's advantage over Gohan wasn't too large, and so at Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta is already just about even with him. Vegeta still might not be able to take out Broly on his own, but with Gohan as backup they could most likely pull it off.

[Super Vegetto]

I have Cui at 11,500. Vegeta killed him with a Kiai attack, there is no way Cui is at 18,000.

Well didnt Freeza sad in manga that Cui is much stronger than Vegeta when he was on earth ? Dodoria states Vegeta was never above 18,000 which means Frieza knowd Vegeta max was 18,000 and he says Cui is much stronger,,,i dont get that part but Daizenshuu clearly correct that yust like Cuis words,,,meaninig Vegeta equal to Cui and Vegeta 24,000 owns Cui who was 18,000....

[Super Vegetto]

To keep things back on topic, here's a sorta-kinda versus match.

Vegeta shows up to help during Movie 10.

Let's assume it happens right after Gohan and Broly both transform. Vegeta had been observing from dome distance away, but once he sensed Broly's full power, he decides to step in. So it basically becomes a 2-vs-1 fight, with Mr. Musclehead taking on both Gohan and Vegeta at the same time.

Personally, I think Broly's advantage over Gohan wasn't too large, and so at Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta is already just about even with him. Vegeta still might not be able to take out Broly on his own, but with Gohan as backup they could most likely pull it off.

Personally cuz its movie i go with Vegetas words in movie 8 where he states lssj is the strongest saiyan in universe and his power is always rising which you can see in movie 8,,in movie 10 he never raise his power or power up against Gohan ssj2,,its ture Gohan puts few kicks on Broly but i didnt see Broly get hurt,,,Vegeta ssj2 vs Gohan ssj2 would own Broly only if they have strategy and if they can take hits,,if Broly powers up which i sad his power is always rising i say Broly > Gohan and Vegeta...movie logic...

[Rocketman]

Vegeta puts Broly down with ease. That's the entire reason he doesn't make an appearance.

[FNF]

Piccolo doubts Prince of Destruction Vegeta's ability to beat Boo based off of Boo>Teen Gohan.
That tells us that the gap in power between them isn't that large and certainly not big enough to allow Vegeta to beat Gohan in the same fashion Broly did.

At the end of the day, there is simply no chance that Vegeta and Gohan are going to be able to do something imo.

I see it as;

LSSjin Broly (movie 10)- 1.25/1.5
SSjin2 Goku/Prince of Destruction Vegeta- 1
SSjin2 Kid Gohan- 0.95
SSjin2 Vegeta- 0.9
SSjin2 Teen Gohan- 0.75

[CatouttaHell]

Hypothetical GT SSjin 4 Pan vs. SSjin 4 Gogeta from the Evil Dragons arc. Who wins?

This is assuming that Vegeta was right about even Gohan and Goten having the potential to surpass Super Yi Xing Long, who is >>> SSjin 4 Goku (Beyond Limits,) and that the following statement from the GT Perfect Files is true:

Super Saiyan 4
The form which draws out the battle power which Saiyans posses out to the utmost limits is this, Super Saiyan 4

[Piccolo Daimao]

Hypothetical GT SSjin 4 Pan vs. SSjin 4 Gogeta from the Evil Dragons arc.

Gogeta wins easily. He's a fusion of two of the greatest warriors in existence, and has techniques like the Big Bang Kamehameha. Pan's alone and even SS4 may not have drawn out her power to its fullest, considering that what we saw with Gohan after the old Kaioushin's ritual (access to full power in base, no need for transformations that might drain his ki).

[Saiga]

The guidebooks say that SSjin Goten (Pre) = SSjin Gohan and that Base Chibi Trunks > No. 18 (which are both true) yet I do not recall anybody but Gojirason and dbgtFO following those statements.

It's definitely not explicitly stated that Base Trunks > 18, that's your interpretation of it. The same way others can interpret the comparison between Goten and Gohan differently. It's certainly not as straight forward as you put it.

SS2 Vegeta and SS2 Gohan vs LSS Broli: Broli goes down pretty easily. I think Vegeta alone could do this.

[CatouttaHell]

By virtue of being Goku's son, Goten posses battle power not the least bit inferior to even Gohan.

How the fuck is Goten = Gohan just my interpretation of that? There is no logical way to interpret that other than Goten = Gohan in BP.

[dprez]

I would think that logic tells us Gohan is stronger, and Goten is simply in the same ball park. I think it's silly to think that Goten is even equal to Gohan when they start training for the tournament.

[Saiga]

By virtue of being Goku's son, Goten posses battle power not the least bit inferior to even Gohan.

How the fuck is Goten = Gohan just my interpretation of that? There is no logical way to interpret that other than Goten = Gohan in BP.

I know this has already been explained to you, but whatever. It could be as dprez said, it could be referring to the potential they both have as others have said countless times, and it's a weirdly worded statement anyway.