The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Angelus]

So Base Black was a stronger SSJ2 tier than SSJ2 Trunks?

[TheUltimateNinja]

So Base Black was a stronger SSJ2 tier than SSJ2 Trunks?

He was low-end SSJ3 in the future, dropped down to SSJ2 level in the past. When Goku fought Trunks with SSJ3 Trunks said Black was just as strong, so we know Black = Suppressed SSJ3 Goku, but when he comes to the past Trunks says he's become weaker.

[dragon boss z]

Black gets wrecked, in his first trip to our timeline he's high SSJ2-tier at best, whereas Buuccolo w/ 10 SSJ3 Gotenks would be stronger than Super Vegetto. Even regular Buuccolo would thrash Black easily.

But if Black was jus SSJ2 tier then SSJ2 Future Trunks should have been able to stand a chance

Trunks said Black was stronger in the future.

Goku wasn't even trying, he was just delaying them and conserving his energy so his time on earth wouldn't run out, he later confirms that if he wanted to he could waste Buu easily.

I'm pretty sure what Goku actually said later was that he most likely could of killed Buu if he wanted to. I don't think he ever said he could of easily won.

Regardless, on your scale I'd put Buu at 6 billion, twice as strong as SSJ2, half as strong as SSJ3. Plus 1 SSJ2 is enough to fill up half his energy meter, so his full strength is equal to 2 SSJ2s.

You don't necessarily need all the energy of Buu to revive Buu. Dabura said he thought the three of the z fighters would be enough to fill the rest of the tank and he didn't even know about ssj yet. But you may be right.

[Bullza]

Super Saiyan Rose Black at his strongest and Future Zamasu without immortality

Vs

Hit, Super Saiyan Cabba, Magetta, Final Form Frost and Botamo only as we saw them as of the Tournament.

Black and Zamasu can't fuse and Hit can't use killing techniques.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Super Saiyan Rose Black at his strongest and Future Zamasu without immortality

Vs

Hit, Super Saiyan Cabba, Magetta, Final Form Frost and Botamo only as we saw them as of the Tournament.

Black and Zamasu can't fuse and Hit can't use killing techniques.

Hit solos easily. The rest are irrelevant, the gap between Hit and the rest of U6 is absolutely massive.

[Angelus]

So Base Black was a stronger SSJ2 tier than SSJ2 Trunks?

He was low-end SSJ3 in the future, dropped down to SSJ2 level in the past. When Goku fought Trunks with SSJ3 Trunks said Black was just as strong, so we know Black = Suppressed SSJ3 Goku, but when he comes to the past Trunks says he's become weaker.

He got weaker from time travelling?

[Bullza]

Super Saiyan Rose Black at his strongest and Future Zamasu without immortality

Vs

Hit, Super Saiyan Cabba, Magetta, Final Form Frost and Botamo only as we saw them as of the Tournament.

Black and Zamasu can't fuse and Hit can't use killing techniques.

Hit solos easily. The rest are irrelevant, the gap between Hit and the rest of U6 is absolutely massive.

What gap? Hit is significantly below Black which makes the rest relevant.

[Anime Kitten]

He got weaker from time travelling?

Indeed he did. In Episode 50, after Black returns to the future, Goku asks Future Trunks how strong Black was in the present compared to the future. Trunks tells him he was just a bit weaker.

[kinisking]

Super Saiyan Rose Black at his strongest and Future Zamasu without immortality

Vs

Hit, Super Saiyan Cabba, Magetta, Final Form Frost and Botamo only as we saw them as of the Tournament.

Black and Zamasu can't fuse and Hit can't use killing techniques.

Hit solos easily. The rest are irrelevant, the gap between Hit and the rest of U6 is absolutely massive.

What gap? Hit is significantly below Black which makes the rest relevant.

Hit is not significantly below Black. He wasn't doing that bad against ssb kaioken times 10 Goku while being handicapped.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Super Saiyan Rose Black at his strongest and Future Zamasu without immortality

Vs

Hit, Super Saiyan Cabba, Magetta, Final Form Frost and Botamo only as we saw them as of the Tournament.

Black and Zamasu can't fuse and Hit can't use killing techniques.

Hit solos easily. The rest are irrelevant, the gap between Hit and the rest of U6 is absolutely massive.

What gap? Hit is significantly below Black which makes the rest relevant.

Hit is far above Black, Black was getting jobbed by SSBlue Goku who had a hole in chest despite the fact that he had Zamasu to back him up, Hit was going toe to toe with Kaioken x10 Goku despite having to hold back.

So Base Black was a stronger SSJ2 tier than SSJ2 Trunks?

He was low-end SSJ3 in the future, dropped down to SSJ2 level in the past. When Goku fought Trunks with SSJ3 Trunks said Black was just as strong, so we know Black = Suppressed SSJ3 Goku, but when he comes to the past Trunks says he's become weaker.

He got weaker from time travelling?

Yeah, it seems something about the time ring caused Black to become weak.

[Bullza]

Hit is far above Black, Black was getting jobbed by SSBlue Goku who had a hole in chest despite the fact that he had Zamasu to back him up, Hit was going toe to toe with Kaioken x10 Goku despite having to hold back

Hit had less power than U6 SSJB Goku. He only did as well as he did because of the timeskip and Gokus body breaking down.

He was able to hurt Goku but one punch in return did far more damage.

SSJR Black was making easy work if Goku, Vegeta and Trunks and he powered up twice after that. He's vastly more powerful than Hit.

[apex_pretador]

Piccolo (Super) Vs SSJ3 Vegetto.

Piccolo gets trashed pretty easily.
Piccolo was a lot weaker than frost. He is weaker than base saiyans, who are weraker than SS3 vegetto.

Super Saiyan Rose Black at his strongest and Future Zamasu without immortality

Vs

Hit, Super Saiyan Cabba, Magetta, Final Form Frost and Botamo only as we saw them as of the Tournament.

Black and Zamasu can't fuse and Hit can't use killing techniques.

Rose Black is stronger than hit, who was having issues with SSB Goku before he increased his time-skip and improved himself.
Even after he used his full power, Hit was put down in one hit by heavily tired SSBKK Goku. A much stronger goku , even with rage boost, got beaten by Black. So, Black beats hit.


Zamasu (even in present) was able to give a sronger SS2 goku a better fight than anyone else gave SS1 vegeta. SS2 >> several SS1's. Zamasu puts his ki blade through cabba, frost and Magetta gets knocked out by insult.
Botamo is tricky but he is too weak.

[nickzambuto]

I think it's obvious for Vegito to stomp Piccolo. I have Piccolo at Fat Buu level maybe.

What if...

Tenshinhan (after training in King Kai's planet for 260 days) vs Goku (Ginyu Saga, no Kaioken allowed)
Chiaotzu (after training in King Kai's planet for 260 days) vs Zarbon (normal and transformed)

Just remember that they trained more days than Goku, who got stronger 20 times stronger and was only training alone, and even if they are not saiyans they still trained together at the planet which could make them even stronger. Who wins?

Your logic is sound. I always liked to assume that the gap between the humans and base Goku remained the same as it was at the 22nd Budokai, maybe closer to the gap during the 23ed Budokai at worst. But at best, Ten might even be stronger than base Goku, unless we assume that the Kikoho is literally a 100,000x multiplier. If we look at the whole franchise, there's plenty of evidence to support the idea that the humans never lost pace with the base saiyans.

-Defeating the Ginyu Force after only six days of training
-Krillin held his own against Imperfect Cell
-Tenshinhan fought Trunks in the Bojack movie and forced him to transform
-Yamcha overpowered Olibu much easier than Pikkon did

[Angelus]

SSJ2 Goku (during his first fight against Black) VS SSJ Goku (Post-SSJG Ritual; after SSJG time ran out, during his second DBS fight against Beerus)

SSJ3 Goku (during his sparring match against SSJ2 Future Trunks; but this time at full power) VS Black (minutes before turning SSJ Rose)

U6-U7 Tournament Base Goku VS Base Goku (against resurrected Frieza)

[Zamasu55]

That is definitely possible. They should be somewhere close to each other.

They're not close, Vegeta literally made a fool of Good Buu when he was inside Super Buu. The one that's close to Ssj2 Vegeta (who's as strong as Majin Vegeta btw) is Evil Buu, not his good side.

I'm pretty sure that scene's anime filler.

No, it wasn't.

Super Saiyan Rose Black at his strongest and Future Zamasu without immortality

Vs

Hit, Super Saiyan Cabba, Magetta, Final Form Frost and Botamo only as we saw them as of the Tournament.

Black and Zamasu can't fuse and Hit can't use killing techniques.

Black easily solos.

SSJ2 Goku (during his first fight against Black) VS SSJ Goku (Post-SSJG Ritual; after SSJG time ran out, during his second DBS fight against Beerus)

SSJ3 Goku (during his sparring match against SSJ2 Future Trunks; but this time at full power) VS Black (minutes before turning SSJ Rose)

U6-U7 Tournament Base Goku VS Base Goku (against resurrected Frieza)

1. Ssj Goku of course, he was as strong as his SsjG self as stated by Beerus.
2. You mean Base Black? The one who trashed SsjB Vegeta? If so, he absolutely smashes Ssj3 Goku into pieces.
3. Beyond God Goku (Universal tournament saga) is much stronger than his ROF self, the reason is pretty obvious: He trained for three years with Vegeta.

[Ajay]

<snip>

Please don't make multiple posts one after the other. You can quote multiple people in a single post (see my edit above).

If you decide you have more to add and nobody else has responded, please use the edit button. Posts can be edited up to two hours after the initial submission.

Thanks!

[TheUltimateNinja]

SSJ2 Goku (during his first fight against Black) VS SSJ Goku (Post-SSJG Ritual; after SSJG time ran out, during his second DBS fight against Beerus)

SSJ3 Goku (during his sparring match against SSJ2 Future Trunks; but this time at full power) VS Black (minutes before turning SSJ Rose)

U6-U7 Tournament Base Goku VS Base Goku (against resurrected Frieza)

SSJ2 Goku gets wasted, SSJ Goku still retained most of SSG's power even after the time limit ran out, so this is basically SSJ2 Goku vs SSG Goku.

SSJ3 Goku gets destroyed, Black was tanking hits from SSBlue Vegeta who is far above SSJ3.

Goku (Tournament) wins easily, he became a lot stronger from his training in the time chamber.

Super Saiyan Rose Black at his strongest and Future Zamasu without immortality

Vs

Hit, Super Saiyan Cabba, Magetta, Final Form Frost and Botamo only as we saw them as of the Tournament.

Black and Zamasu can't fuse and Hit can't use killing techniques.

Black easily solos.

Are you sure Black can beat Hit so easily? Goku needed Kaioken x10 to fight Hit whereas he only needed a rage boost to start wrecking Black even though he was just stabbed and was on the verge of collapsing.

[Angelus]

U6 Final Form Frost (No poison sting) VS Final Form Frieza (DBS, Resurrected)
[Not the usual Final Form Frieza, but the resurrected one from DBS, who ended up fighting Base Goku... before turning Golden Frieza, and the latter turning SSJB as a response]

[TheUltimateNinja]

U6 Final Form Frost (No poison sting) VS Final Form Frieza (DBS, Resurrected)
[Not the usual Final Form Frieza, but the resurrected one from DBS, who ended up fighting Base Goku... before turning Golden Frieza, and the latter turning SSJB as a response]

Frost gets killed by First Form Frieza, even Piccolo is capable of putting up a fight against Frost (exhausted).

[Anime Kitten]

U6 Final Form Frost (No poison sting) VS Final Form Frieza (DBS, Resurrected)

This is kind of a tough one when you consider the Two Base Theory. Frost fought a Super Saiyan Goku after his 3-year Time Chamber/ROSAT training, whereas Freeza fought a Base Goku before said training, albeit more than likely against a Goku using his God Ki Base. I'll go with Freeza, if only because Frost can't use his poison.