Zamasu55 wrote:Beyond God Copy-Vegeta one-shots him.
Could you please expand on your reasoning? One-liners like this don't answer the matches. We'd all like to know why you believe what you say.TheUltimateNinja wrote:Copy Vegeta and Frieza can both one-shot him.
Zamasu55 already explained the two base theory which we follow on the previous page, but basically the belief is Enhanced Base > All SSJ forms, and since Present Zamasu is inferior to SSJ2 Goku, he would be easily annihilated by either Frieza or Copy Vegeta.Anime Kitten wrote:Zamasu55 wrote:Beyond God Copy-Vegeta one-shots him.Could you please expand on your reasoning? One-liners like this don't answer the matches. We'd all like to know why you believe what you say.TheUltimateNinja wrote:Copy Vegeta and Frieza can both one-shot him.
Frieza one shots him.Nekis13 wrote:Super Saiyan Cabba vs Post-Training Frieza (no Golden Form)?
Angelus wrote:Present Zamasu (not immortal, no insulting allowed) VS Botamo, SSJ Cabba, Final Form Frost (no poison sting), Base Copy-Vegeta, RoF Final Form Frieza (not golden), DBS Tournament Piccolo and Auta Magetta (Auta can only use it's steam/heat tactics if ever SSJ Cabba, Botamo, and Piccolo gets killed first)
SSJ Cabba should take this. Vegeta and Goku trained for the tournament. Base Vegeta said that base Cabba was equal with him. Base Goku during the RoF arc was also roughly equal with resurrected Final Form Frieza. Based off that, SSJ Cabba should easily win against RoF Final Form Frieza.Nekis13 wrote:Super Saiyan Cabba vs Post-Training Frieza (no Golden Form)?
Around the level of a Buu Arc SSJ2, I have Vegeta's base at 80,000,000 and Cabba's base at 192,000,000, so his SSJ would be about as strong as a Buu Arc SSJ2.dragon boss z wrote:Frieza one shots him.Nekis13 wrote:Super Saiyan Cabba vs Post-Training Frieza (no Golden Form)?
ssj Cabba is roubly buu saga ssj tier.
Angelus wrote:Present Zamasu (not immortal, no insulting allowed) VS Botamo, SSJ Cabba, Final Form Frost (no poison sting), Base Copy-Vegeta, RoF Final Form Frieza (not golden), DBS Tournament Piccolo and Auta Magetta (Auta can only use it's steam/heat tactics if ever SSJ Cabba, Botamo, and Piccolo gets killed first)
SSJ Cabba should take this. Vegeta and Goku trained for the tournament. Base Vegeta said that base Cabba was equal with him. Base Goku during the RoF arc was also roughly equal with resurrected Final Form Frieza. Based off that, SSJ Cabba should easily win against RoF Final Form Frieza.Nekis13 wrote:Super Saiyan Cabba vs Post-Training Frieza (no Golden Form)?
That's just the anime messing up power scaling. Cabba is supposed to be equal to pre god base Vegeta and pre god ssj Vegeta. He should be buu saga tier.
It's been said plenty of times, Beyond God Goku and Vegeta are leagues above every Z character, Vegito included. Their power is only slightly weaker than SsjG Goku's. We have many hints that confirm this:Anime Kitten wrote:Zamasu55 wrote:Beyond God Copy-Vegeta one-shots him.Could you please expand on your reasoning? One-liners like this don't answer the matches. We'd all like to know why you believe what you say.TheUltimateNinja wrote:Copy Vegeta and Frieza can both one-shot him.
In terms of power Vegetto should still be superior, but he may need to turn SSJ2 to counter Janemba's abilities if Buu can use them.RedShift wrote:Super Buu absorbs Ultimate Gohan, SS3 Gotenks, Piccolo, and Janemba.... Does Vegito need to transform to SS2 to win? No time limits for either fusion to wear off.
I don't know about this one, personally I have Zamasu falling comfortably into SSJ2 tier, Goku is just a very powerful SSJ2.Zamasu55 wrote: So, since Present Zamasu is not even Ssj2 tier, I guess he'd get his ass kicked in by Copy-Vegeta and Final form Frieza (ROF).
Around the level of a Buu Arc SSJ2, I have Vegeta's base at 80,000,000 and Cabba's base at 192,000,000, so his SSJ would be about as strong as a Buu Arc SSJ2.[/quote]TheUltimateNinja wrote:
That's just the anime messing up power scaling. Cabba is supposed to be equal to pre god base Vegeta and pre god ssj Vegeta. He should be buu saga tier.
[/spoiler] I was talking about Buu Arc Vegeta, I have Tournament Vegeta at 196,000,000.dragon boss z wrote:Why do you think Cabba's base is stronger than Vegeta's? It was stated to be about equal and if anything it's slightly weaker.TheUltimateNinja wrote:
That's just the anime messing up power scaling. Cabba is supposed to be equal to pre god base Vegeta and pre god ssj Vegeta. He should be buu saga tier.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:I was talking about Buu Arc Vegeta, I have Tournament Vegeta at 196,000,000.dragon boss z wrote:Why do you think Cabba's base is stronger than Vegeta's? It was stated to be about equal and if anything it's slightly weaker.TheUltimateNinja wrote:
That's just the anime messing up power scaling. Cabba is supposed to be equal to pre god base Vegeta and pre god ssj Vegeta. He should be buu saga tier.
Goku should tank it fairly easily, I have both of them at 80 and Max Power Roshi at 200, so Goku shouldn't have any trouble at all given that even severely weakened his Oozaru should be at least 400-500.DanielSSJ wrote:Here's a match that I'm curious about.
Great Ape Son Goku vs Muten Roshi!
Both are from the 21st Tenka'ichi Budokai. No interference from Yamcha or the others (including telling him about the tail weakness).
Basically, had Muten Roshi aimed that moon-destroying Kamehameha at Great Ape Goku, would the blast have actually killed him, or would the Great Ape form be too much for the old-timer to overcome?
Only 30 million? Yikes, talk about lowballing.dragon boss z wrote:TheUltimateNinja wrote:I was talking about Buu Arc Vegeta, I have Tournament Vegeta at 196,000,000.dragon boss z wrote:Why do you think Cabba's base is stronger than Vegeta's? It was stated to be about equal and if anything it's slightly weaker.
Oh I see. I still find it hard to believe he's that strong. Imo base buu saga saiyans are about 30 mil and base Cabba should be around there too.
I don't see how that's low balling. Here are my rough estimates.TheUltimateNinja wrote:Only 30 million? Yikes, talk about lowballing.dragon boss z wrote:TheUltimateNinja wrote: I was talking about Buu Arc Vegeta, I have Tournament Vegeta at 196,000,000.
Oh I see. I still find it hard to believe he's that strong. Imo base buu saga saiyans are about 30 mil and base Cabba should be around there too.
The gap between Imperfect Cell and 17/Piccolo is way too small, as is the gap between Semi Perfect Cell and Super Vegeta. Also, half of MSSJ Goku's power is stronger than Grade 2 Vegeta so he has to be over twice as strong.dragon boss z wrote:I don't see how that's low balling. Here are my rough estimates.TheUltimateNinja wrote:Only 30 million? Yikes, talk about lowballing.dragon boss z wrote:
Oh I see. I still find it hard to believe he's that strong. Imo base buu saga saiyans are about 30 mil and base Cabba should be around there too.
Frieza: 120 mil
ssj Trunks: 160 mil
android saga ssj Goku/Vegeta: 200 mil
androids 17/18: 250 mil
Kamiccolo: 250 mil
android 16: 300 mil
imperfect Cell: 300 mil
semi perfect Cell: 550 mil
super Vegeta: 600 mil
mssj Goku: 900 mil
perfect Cell: 1 bil
super perfect Cell: 1.5 bil
ssj2 Gohan: 2 bil
buu saga ssj Goku: 1.5 bil
buu saga ssj2 Goku: 3 bil
buu saga ssj3 Goku: 12 bil
I don't really how you can say these are crazy lowballs or anything. It was confirmed that ssj Goku/Vegeta were still weaker than ssj2 teen Gohan so that means they really didn't get that much stronger over the 8 year time gap. They only place I may be lowballing is the 3 year time gap when they trained for the androids, but I really don't think they got that much stronger considering Trunks said he could almost 1v1 future 17/18 even though they are weaker than the present androids I don't think it would be by a crazy amount.
50% stronger is a large gap. Vegeta's power level was 24,000 when he one shotted Qui (18,000) and Dadoria (22,000). I don't see why imperfect Cell should be more than 50% stronger than Piccolo. He was only absorbing humans, to go from being quite a bit weaker than Piccolo to multiple times stronger seems like a stretch.TheUltimateNinja wrote:
The gap between Imperfect Cell and 17/Piccolo is way too small, as is the gap between Semi Perfect Cell and Super Vegeta. Also, half of MSSJ Goku's power is stronger than Grade 2 Vegeta so he has to be over twice as strong.
250-300 isn't a 50% difference, it's 20%. And 550-600 is even smaller, it's only a 9% difference.dragon boss z wrote:50% stronger is a large gap. Vegeta's power level was 24,000 when he one shotted Qui (18,000) and Dadoria (22,000). I don't see why imperfect Cell should be more than 50% stronger than Piccolo. He was only absorbing humans, to go from being quite a bit weaker than Piccolo to multiple times stronger seems like a stretch.TheUltimateNinja wrote:
The gap between Imperfect Cell and 17/Piccolo is way too small, as is the gap between Semi Perfect Cell and Super Vegeta. Also, half of MSSJ Goku's power is stronger than Grade 2 Vegeta so he has to be over twice as strong.
Same thing with semi perfect Cell and Super Vegeta.
As for half of mmsj goku's power being higher than grade 2 Vegeta you might be right about that. I'm just not sure about that though because grade 2 is a form with a lot of power but less speed. So I was thinking Goku might be double the effective power of grade 2 Vegeta, but not overall power. for example ssj Goku's half power would of definitely been over double Vegeta's regular ssj form. Though you may be right and it might be double grade 2 Vegeta too.
So basically if I were to change anything it would be to increase Goku's and Cell's power levels. but it really wouldn't change how strong buu saga Goku is. maybe it would be
grade 2 Vegeta: 600
mssj Goku: 1.3 bil
perfect Cell: 1.5 bil
super perfect Cell: 2 bil
ssj2 Gohan: 3 bil
buu saga ssj Goku: 2 bil
which would make Goku's base 40 mil instead of 30 mil. That's fine too. I just think Goku's somewhere around there. Also if you go by the kili to power level conversion v-jump gives, Yakon has a power level of 40 mil and base Goku seemed to be somewhere around Yakon in terms of power.
Ya it's not 50% lol I brain farted sorry about that. 250 to 300 is still close to a 20% diffrence, maybe the gap should be a bit bigger. As for the 550-600 Vegeta didn't one shot Cell so it really shouldn't be a huge gap in the first place. Maybe you can drop semi perfect Cell to 500.TheUltimateNinja wrote: 250-300 isn't a 50% difference, it's 20%. And 550-600 is even smaller, it's only a 9% difference.
Nah, he should be Cell + 17 so your numbers are accurate there, though I'd place him higher since I believe Impefect Cell should be stronger. And Vegeta was holding back against Cell, he later reveals his true power against Perfect Cell.dragon boss z wrote:Ya it's not 50% lol I brain farted sorry about that. 250 to 300 is still close to a 20% diffrence, maybe the gap should be a bit bigger. As for the 550-600 Vegeta didn't one shot Cell so it really shouldn't be a huge gap in the first place. Maybe you can drop semi perfect Cell to 500.TheUltimateNinja wrote: 250-300 isn't a 50% difference, it's 20%. And 550-600 is even smaller, it's only a 9% difference.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:Nah, he should be Cell + 17 so your numbers are accurate there, though I'd place him higher since I believe Impefect Cell should be stronger. And Vegeta was holding back against Cell, he later reveals his true power against Perfect Cell.dragon boss z wrote:Ya it's not 50% lol I brain farted sorry about that. 250 to 300 is still close to a 20% diffrence, maybe the gap should be a bit bigger. As for the 550-600 Vegeta didn't one shot Cell so it really shouldn't be a huge gap in the first place. Maybe you can drop semi perfect Cell to 500.TheUltimateNinja wrote: 250-300 isn't a 50% difference, it's 20%. And 550-600 is even smaller, it's only a 9% difference.
