Doctor. wrote:Woah woah woah, hold up there.
This is [i}not[/i] how story-telling works. The author gives the explanation, not the audience.
There are things now with no answers that only the audience could create some explanation (or we should hope Dragon Ball S answers at least some of them).dbzfan7 wrote:You could apply this to soooo many Dragon Ball concepts and ideas right nowDoctor. wrote:This is [i}not[/i] how story-telling works. The author gives the explanation, not the audience.
You could apply that concepts and idea stemming from manga, as well.dbzfan7 wrote:You could apply this to soooo many Dragon Ball concepts and ideas right nowDoctor. wrote:This is [i}not[/i] how story-telling works. The author gives the explanation, not the audience.
No the issue is people jump to defend everything he does whether consistent or not, but for pretty everything he doesn't do people are fine with just bashing it. Just look at GT. I don't see many people giving GT much theory treatment or explaining away all it's issues. Big or small.Lord Beerus wrote:People are calling out Toriyama for this inconsistency/plothole. It's just that's it's so insignificant in the grand scheme of things, there's no point in really ragging on him for it. Dragon Ball has always been consistently inconsistent. Why are you acting as if people have never pointed out the inconsistencies ever since Toriyama started writing and drawing Dragon Ball all those years ago?dbzfan7 wrote:So then pretty much every other person who writes Dragon Ball can be as consistent or inconsistent too since they were given rights to do pretty much whatever they want. Such as GT, Toei Movies, Specials, etc. Though of course Toriyama doesn't have to be consistent as it's his work....even though people will go to drastic length's to pretend he totally is being consistent.
Your point? We don't give the manga free passes either. Maybe you do.Lord Beerus wrote:You could apply that concepts and idea stemming from manga, as well.dbzfan7 wrote:You could apply this to soooo many Dragon Ball concepts and ideas right nowDoctor. wrote:This is [i}not[/i] how story-telling works. The author gives the explanation, not the audience.
I don't think Dragon Ball is the kind of open to interpretation kind of story. Pretty much everything is spelled out and kept simple. I mean Toriyama is all about simple.Dyno wrote:Doctor. wrote:Woah woah woah, hold up there.
This is [i}not[/i] how story-telling works. The author gives the explanation, not the audience.There are things now with no answers that only the audience could create some explanation (or we should hope Dragon Ball S answers at least some of them).dbzfan7 wrote:You could apply this to soooo many Dragon Ball concepts and ideas right nowDoctor. wrote:This is [i}not[/i] how story-telling works. The author gives the explanation, not the audience.
I'm aware, that's why Dragon Ball isn't a brilliantly written story.Lord Beerus wrote:You could apply that concepts and idea stemming from manga, as well.dbzfan7 wrote:You could apply this to soooo many Dragon Ball concepts and ideas right nowDoctor. wrote:This is [i}not[/i] how story-telling works. The author gives the explanation, not the audience.
Yes, I believe the creator of Dragon Ball can make a claim like that, since he's, you know, the creator of Dragon Ball.Flame Dragon wrote:Toriyama can do everything cuz he's the author?
Wow, can't believe he actually said that.
It is simply property law. Something people always fail to realize. Both Akira Toriyama and Toei are allowed to make official stories of Dragon Ball so of course they can do such things. As for fanfictions, yes, it can also be used to compare and say that you don't need to take it that serious. But that's about it.Flame Dragon wrote:Toriyama can do everything cuz he's the author?
Wow, can't believe he actually said that.
Very well then, however, this means that everybody else can do whatever the fuck they want too.
So there's no longer any reason to critize fanfictions, GT, Toei Movies, Funimation dub etc.
Can we stop with the utterly ridiculous lapses in logic. That's not how things work, and it's exceptionally tiring to read.Flame Dragon wrote:Very well then, however, this means that everybody else can do whatever the fuck they want too.
So there's no longer any reason to critize fanfictions, GT, Toei Movies, Funimation dub etc.
This is Toriyama's work; everything he has ever penned is freely alterable at his discretion. That's a very different scenario from unsanctioned changes made by third parties.It’s really embarrassing to have this called a “screenplay”. It’d probably be more accurate to say it’s just a memo. It’s simply something I idly dashed off for the staff, just to help explain the flow of the story and the dialogue! Never in a million years did I think it would get published. If any of you are trying to become scriptwriters, please don’t use this as an example!!
I guess you could say that some things are difficult for anyone but the original author to write, because only the original author can freely mess around with what’s already been established. A scriptwriter would get tied up trying not to screw with the original story, so in that respect they’d probably have a harder time messing around with things.
Then there’s the dialogue. The original author knows each character’s personality and backstory, so they can naturally think up dialogue that suits them.
Yes but if he can mess with what is ESTABLISHED by him 20 years ago and he doesn't follow the continuity then officially he stated that there isn't a continuity.AjayLikesGaming wrote:Can we stop with the utterly ridiculous lapses in logic. That's not how things work, and it's exceptionally tiring to read.Flame Dragon wrote:Very well then, however, this means that everybody else can do whatever the fuck they want too.
So there's no longer any reason to critize fanfictions, GT, Toei Movies, Funimation dub etc.
Here's what Toriyama said, with the key elements highlighted:
This is Toriyama's work; everything he has ever penned is freely alterable at his discretion. That's a very different scenario from unsanctioned changes made by third parties.It’s really embarrassing to have this called a “screenplay”. It’d probably be more accurate to say it’s just a memo. It’s simply something I idly dashed off for the staff, just to help explain the flow of the story and the dialogue! Never in a million years did I think it would get published. If any of you are trying to become scriptwriters, please don’t use this as an example!!
I guess you could say that some things are difficult for anyone but the original author to write, because only the original author can freely mess around with what’s already been established. A scriptwriter would get tied up trying not to screw with the original story, so in that respect they’d probably have a harder time messing around with things.
Then there’s the dialogue. The original author knows each character’s personality and backstory, so they can naturally think up dialogue that suits them.
Regardless, nobody is saying you have to like what he does, but how on earth do you come to the conclusion that anyone can freely alter his work just because he decided to?!
Let's stop with the 'senile' implications and general badmouthing. You can criticise something without being offensive. You'll find more people listen and take you seriously that way, too.
Whoa drama queen. The only plothole there is Freeza remembering Bulma and its not that huge.Flame Dragon wrote:- 4 Months of training to reach God-levelDoctor. wrote:Besides Bulma knowing about Freeza and vice-versa and Hell getting retconned, which ones?
- God-level can be reached with training, instead of Magical means (like the Ritual)
- Goku personality. He was cocky before but never so cocky. That was Vegeta shtick.
- Freeza remembering Bulma (HUGE PLOTHOLE)
- Shenron reviving Freeza in pieces. (guess then Namek Krillin should have been revived as dust then lol)
- Vegeta being a pussy against Freeza until he was weakened by Goku. Even tho Vegeta never was scared of opponents and instead kept charging head in even when he was clearly outmatched.
- Gohan and Piccolo needing more than 3 seconds to obliterate the 1000 soldiers.
- The stupid ring of Sorbet.
- Gohan losing SSJ2 (WTF) and Ultimate in such a short time from BOG. Might as well kill him if you're going to treat the character like shit, Toriyama.
And this is not mentioning the recolor fest.
I can't believe his editor was impressed with this shit. This is just a fanfiction made movie
If this is the way the writing is gonna be from now on, my excitement for Dragon Ball Super will be nonexistant.
Might as well watch GT, it might have less plotholes even lmao.
Apparently Freeza saying he remembered Bulma has just destroyed continuity.GoldLiger wrote:Yes but if he can mess with what is ESTABLISHED by him 20 years ago and he doesn't follow the continuity then officially he stated that there isn't a continuity.AjayLikesGaming wrote:Can we stop with the utterly ridiculous lapses in logic. That's not how things work, and it's exceptionally tiring to read.Flame Dragon wrote:Very well then, however, this means that everybody else can do whatever the fuck they want too.
So there's no longer any reason to critize fanfictions, GT, Toei Movies, Funimation dub etc.
Here's what Toriyama said, with the key elements highlighted:
This is Toriyama's work; everything he has ever penned is freely alterable at his discretion. That's a very different scenario from unsanctioned changes made by third parties.It’s really embarrassing to have this called a “screenplay”. It’d probably be more accurate to say it’s just a memo. It’s simply something I idly dashed off for the staff, just to help explain the flow of the story and the dialogue! Never in a million years did I think it would get published. If any of you are trying to become scriptwriters, please don’t use this as an example!!
I guess you could say that some things are difficult for anyone but the original author to write, because only the original author can freely mess around with what’s already been established. A scriptwriter would get tied up trying not to screw with the original story, so in that respect they’d probably have a harder time messing around with things.
Then there’s the dialogue. The original author knows each character’s personality and backstory, so they can naturally think up dialogue that suits them.
Regardless, nobody is saying you have to like what he does, but how on earth do you come to the conclusion that anyone can freely alter his work just because he decided to?!
Let's stop with the 'senile' implications and general badmouthing. You can criticise something without being offensive. You'll find more people listen and take you seriously that way, too.
It makes all sense. I can retcon whatever I want or make plotholes whenever I want in a story that is mine. So can he.GoldLiger wrote:So what is Toriyama saying then. That he can mess with the timeline and facts just cause his the author? That makes little to ZERO sense. It is the other authors that have the ability to do this(like DC/Marvel comics in general) that change the continuity of their original work. So what is the deal? Does this mean that he is going to retcon his original work out of existence?
It means that people are going to be far more critical and far less receptive of anything added by a third party than anything added or altered by the author himself. Dr. Gero, for example, has a semi-shaky retcon backstory only believable because nothing before really says he couldn't have existed. We accept it because Toriyama wrote it in.GoldLiger wrote:So what is Toriyama saying then. That he can mess with the timeline and facts just cause his the author? That makes little to ZERO sense. It is the other authors that have the ability to do this(like DC/Marvel comics in general) that change the continuity of their original work. So what is the deal? Does this mean that he is going to retcon his original work out of existence?
It was already destroyed when Mai said that she was 41 in BoG!ShadowWolf87 wrote:Apparently Freeza saying he remembered Bulma has just destroyed continuity.
Good Lord.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
I always figured the one year limit only ever applied to Kami's Dragon Balls, as it's only ever mentioned with those. Dende's set have more power and fewer restrictions, so I just figured the one year limit may not apply or have a loophole somewhere now.Dyno wrote:No? You don't use your ideas to explain the end of Dragon Ball GT? You, at some point, didn't use your ideas of what could happen after end of Z, ignoring GT?
Before Kanzenshuu cover it, the "ressurection limit of one year" was pretty much up to interpretation, the way I see it now.
Was she given a concrete age before? Is it possible she's lying about her age similar to Bulma?DBZGTKOSDH wrote:It was already destroyed when Mai said that she was 41 in BoG!ShadowWolf87 wrote:Apparently Freeza saying he remembered Bulma has just destroyed continuity.
Good Lord.
