The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Zamasu55]

1. Kid Buu toyed all the time with everyone.
2. Mr. Buu lasted more than Vegeta ONLY because he could regenerate.

I have SSJ2 Vegeta above Buu as well, 10 billion, the same as Tournament Arc SSJ Goku.

Allow me to think you are wrong my friend.

[Hugo Boss]

Hit (no timeskip) vs. Golden Freeza (no stamina limit)

Hit obliterates him in one blow, he's capable of trading blows with SSBlue Kaioken x10 Goku who is worlds above Frieza.

Actually Hit was trading blows with SSBlue Goku. He was using tokitobashi against Goku's kaioken.

Even so, I think Goku got much stronger after fighting Freeza, so Hit could probably beat Freeza at his peak too.

[TheUltimateNinja]

1. Kid Buu toyed all the time with everyone.
2. Mr. Buu lasted more than Vegeta ONLY because he could regenerate.

I have SSJ2 Vegeta above Buu as well, 10 billion, the same as Tournament Arc SSJ Goku.

Allow me to think you are wrong my friend.

There's not much to suggest they actually got massively stronger between the Buu Arc and the Tournament Arc. Their powers did not change much in the time until BoG, and Vegeta said they didn't improve all that much in the time chamber, so the only time they'd have to make major gains is in the time they spent with Whis.

[Zamasu55]

I have SSJ2 Vegeta above Buu as well, 10 billion, the same as Tournament Arc SSJ Goku.

Allow me to think you are wrong my friend.

There's not much to suggest they actually got massively stronger between the Buu Arc and the Tournament Arc. Their powers did not change much in the time until BoG, and Vegeta said they didn't improve all that much in the time chamber, so the only time they'd have to make major gains is in the time they spent with Whis.

Ssj2 Future Trunks impressed Beerus, who literally called Ssj3 Goku (BOG) trash. So, since that Ssj2 Future Trunks was even with Ssj2 Goku, it means that yes, they got massively stronger.

Hit (no timeskip) vs. Golden Freeza (no stamina limit)

No Time-skip? Then Golden Frieza dominates. He was stronger than a Ssj Blue, especially in Super where Goku was completely destroyed (whereas in the movie the difference wasn't that big). Hit without Time-skip is nothing special.

[Polyphase Avatron]

SMPOM won't stand a chance against Beerus, let alone Zeno.

He would beat Beerus but lose to Zeno.

[dragon boss z]

Hit (no timeskip) vs. Golden Freeza (no stamina limit)

If you go by the manga Frieza could probably win even with Hit's time skip.

If you go by the anime Hit seems to be stronger than Frieza even without time skip.

[dragonball0900]

Hey guys, what if Lord Slug (the Movie 4 villian) vs Salza (from Movie 5, the strongest of Cooler's Armored Squadron) if we assume the Goku who fought Lord Slug is the Goku from Ginyu Saga?

[TheUltimateNinja]

Hey guys, what if Lord Slug (the Movie 4 villian) vs Salza (from Movie 5, the strongest of Cooler's Armored Squadron) if we assume the Goku who fought Lord Slug is the Goku from Ginyu Saga?

Slug should win easily, Salza's power level should be over 2 million since he is able to challenge Piccolo and Pre-Zenkai Goku, however this is nothing compared to Lord Slug as King Kai says even Frieza would be no match for him, so Slug's power level is most likely 125 million or so.

Even if you ignore that statement, Goku had to go SSJ to gain the upper hand, so with Goku's base being 90,000, his SSJ would be 4.5 million, which would place Slug's base at 4 million or so. However, Slug later surpasses even this and Goku has to take Piccolo's energy and use the Kaioken x100, which would place his power level around 10 million and Slug's giant form at 8 million, double that of his normal state. So basically Slug wrecks effortlessly.

[dragonball0900]

Hey guys, what if Lord Slug (the Movie 4 villian) vs Salza (from Movie 5, the strongest of Cooler's Armored Squadron) if we assume the Goku who fought Lord Slug is the Goku from Ginyu Saga?

Slug should win easily, Salza's power level should be over 2 million since he is able to challenge Piccolo and Pre-Zenkai Goku, however this is nothing compared to Lord Slug as King Kai says even Frieza would be no match for him, so Slug's power level is most likely 125 million or so.

Even if you ignore that statement, Goku had to go SSJ to gain the upper hand, so with Goku's base being 90,000, his SSJ would be 4.5 million, which would place Slug's base at 4 million or so. However, Slug later surpasses even this and Goku has to take Piccolo's energy and use the Kaioken x100, which would place his power level around 10 million and Slug's giant form at 8 million, double that of his normal state. So basically Slug wrecks effortlessly.

Well, we don't really know which form of Frieza King Kai was talking about, this movie was released at the time when Piccolo was still fighting 2nd Form Frieza, Lord Slug should at least be above that Frieza, or maybe third. Also, I know it may not be official, but I don't know if the multiplier of X50 works for this false SSJ like how it does for normal SSJ, I always thought it was a X25 multiplier, but then again, that's just for anybody's interpretation. He never used Kaioken X100 when he took Piccolo's energy, it was never stated, but it was probably a X10 or X20 (I'll have to check that part of the movie).
I have Base Goku a 90K, false SSJ a 2.25M (90K x25), Young Slug a 1M-1.5M (enough to resist a X10 kaioken Goku), and as for Giant Slug a 2.3M maybe, that's also enough to surpass the False SSJ.
I have the characters of Movie 5 at their Mecha Frieza saga selves, so Piccolo after training would probably be at 2M, with Salza a bit below him.

I have to agree on the result that Salza would be beaten up by Slug, although with some more effort I believe.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Hey guys, what if Lord Slug (the Movie 4 villian) vs Salza (from Movie 5, the strongest of Cooler's Armored Squadron) if we assume the Goku who fought Lord Slug is the Goku from Ginyu Saga?

Slug should win easily, Salza's power level should be over 2 million since he is able to challenge Piccolo and Pre-Zenkai Goku, however this is nothing compared to Lord Slug as King Kai says even Frieza would be no match for him, so Slug's power level is most likely 125 million or so.

Even if you ignore that statement, Goku had to go SSJ to gain the upper hand, so with Goku's base being 90,000, his SSJ would be 4.5 million, which would place Slug's base at 4 million or so. However, Slug later surpasses even this and Goku has to take Piccolo's energy and use the Kaioken x100, which would place his power level around 10 million and Slug's giant form at 8 million, double that of his normal state. So basically Slug wrecks effortlessly.

Well, we don't really know which form of Frieza King Kai was talking about, this movie was released at the time when Piccolo was still fighting 2nd Form Frieza, Lord Slug should at least be above that Frieza, or maybe third. Also, I know it may not be official, but I don't know if the multiplier of X50 works for this false SSJ like how it does for normal SSJ, I always thought it was a X25 multiplier, but then again, that's just for anybody's interpretation. He never used Kaioken X100 when he took Piccolo's energy, it was never stated, but it was probably a X10 or X20 (I'll have to check that part of the movie).
I have Base Goku a 90K, false SSJ a 2.25M (90K x25), Young Slug a 1M-1.5M (enough to resist a X10 kaioken Goku), and as for Giant Slug a 2.3M maybe, that's also enough to surpass the False SSJ.
I have the characters of Movie 5 at their Mecha Frieza saga selves, so Piccolo after training would probably be at 2M, with Salza a bit below him.

I have to agree on the result that Salza would be beaten up by Slug, although with some more effort I believe.

In the original version of the movie Goku did become a Super Saiyan, Toriyama just hadn't given them the design at that time so they didn't know what it looked like. Despite the difference in appearance, it is indeed SSJ. The False SSJ thing was something they came up with later on to explain why it looked different. Also, the 100x Kaioken is stated in a guide, and I'm using that.

[dragonball0900]

Slug should win easily, Salza's power level should be over 2 million since he is able to challenge Piccolo and Pre-Zenkai Goku, however this is nothing compared to Lord Slug as King Kai says even Frieza would be no match for him, so Slug's power level is most likely 125 million or so.

Even if you ignore that statement, Goku had to go SSJ to gain the upper hand, so with Goku's base being 90,000, his SSJ would be 4.5 million, which would place Slug's base at 4 million or so. However, Slug later surpasses even this and Goku has to take Piccolo's energy and use the Kaioken x100, which would place his power level around 10 million and Slug's giant form at 8 million, double that of his normal state. So basically Slug wrecks effortlessly.

Well, we don't really know which form of Frieza King Kai was talking about, this movie was released at the time when Piccolo was still fighting 2nd Form Frieza, Lord Slug should at least be above that Frieza, or maybe third. Also, I know it may not be official, but I don't know if the multiplier of X50 works for this false SSJ like how it does for normal SSJ, I always thought it was a X25 multiplier, but then again, that's just for anybody's interpretation. He never used Kaioken X100 when he took Piccolo's energy, it was never stated, but it was probably a X10 or X20 (I'll have to check that part of the movie).
I have Base Goku a 90K, false SSJ a 2.25M (90K x25), Young Slug a 1M-1.5M (enough to resist a X10 kaioken Goku), and as for Giant Slug a 2.3M maybe, that's also enough to surpass the False SSJ.
I have the characters of Movie 5 at their Mecha Frieza saga selves, so Piccolo after training would probably be at 2M, with Salza a bit below him.

I have to agree on the result that Salza would be beaten up by Slug, although with some more effort I believe.

In the original version of the movie Goku did become a Super Saiyan, Toriyama just hadn't given them the design at that time so they didn't know what it looked like. Despite the difference in appearance, it is indeed SSJ. The False SSJ thing was something they came up with later on to explain why it looked different. Also, the 100x Kaioken is stated in a guide, and I'm using that.

Although I do wonder why Goku didn't stay with the transformation up until the end of the movie, it seems like a limited one in comparison to the SSJ (in which Goku can transform to his base every time he wants).
I still don't know about the Kaioken X100, it can't be possible if a Kaioken X20 weakened Goku a lot in the Frieza battle, just like how the Kaioken X3 did the same to him in the Saiyan Saga. It would just seem weird if Goku uses a Kaioken X100 if he barely resists a Kaioken X20, no matter if he has Piccolo's energy.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Well, we don't really know which form of Frieza King Kai was talking about, this movie was released at the time when Piccolo was still fighting 2nd Form Frieza, Lord Slug should at least be above that Frieza, or maybe third. Also, I know it may not be official, but I don't know if the multiplier of X50 works for this false SSJ like how it does for normal SSJ, I always thought it was a X25 multiplier, but then again, that's just for anybody's interpretation. He never used Kaioken X100 when he took Piccolo's energy, it was never stated, but it was probably a X10 or X20 (I'll have to check that part of the movie).
I have Base Goku a 90K, false SSJ a 2.25M (90K x25), Young Slug a 1M-1.5M (enough to resist a X10 kaioken Goku), and as for Giant Slug a 2.3M maybe, that's also enough to surpass the False SSJ.
I have the characters of Movie 5 at their Mecha Frieza saga selves, so Piccolo after training would probably be at 2M, with Salza a bit below him.

I have to agree on the result that Salza would be beaten up by Slug, although with some more effort I believe.

In the original version of the movie Goku did become a Super Saiyan, Toriyama just hadn't given them the design at that time so they didn't know what it looked like. Despite the difference in appearance, it is indeed SSJ. The False SSJ thing was something they came up with later on to explain why it looked different. Also, the 100x Kaioken is stated in a guide, and I'm using that.

Although I do wonder why Goku didn't stay with the transformation up until the end of the movie, it seems like a limited one in comparison to the SSJ (in which Goku can transform to his base every time he wants).
I still don't know about the Kaioken X100, it can't be possible if a Kaioken X20 weakened Goku a lot in the Frieza battle, just like how the Kaioken X3 did the same to him in the Saiyan Saga. It would just seem weird if Goku uses a Kaioken X100 if he barely resists a Kaioken X20, no matter if he has Piccolo's energy.

He also uses the Kaioken x10 (x20 in the English dub) in Tree Of Might even though he couldn't do that until he got to Namek, so movie logic and canon logic are not the same.

[DBZ Macky]

My attempt at making sense out of the Kaioken x100 thing is that it wasn't actually a 100 fold Kaioken.
Instead, it was actually something like Kaioken x20 of Goku's maximum battle power.

It was just that he became 100x of his current level (Which would be lower than his maximum, since he was tired from the fight), so it felt like a 100x Kaioken.

But that's just a desperate theory to explain why he didn't use Kaioken x100 when he was being beaten by other opponents. That multiplier is the same as a SSJ2.

[Saiyan007]

SMPOM won't stand a chance against Beerus, let alone Zeno.

He would beat Beerus.

Based on what exactly I don't even see anything that allows him to beat SSJG Goku

[TheUltimateNinja]

My attempt at making sense out of the Kaioken x100 thing is that it wasn't actually a 100 fold Kaioken.
Instead, it was actually something like Kaioken x20 of Goku's maximum battle power.

It was just that he became 100x of his current level (Which would be lower than his maximum, since he was tired from the fight), so it felt like a 100x Kaioken.

But that's just a desperate theory to explain why he didn't use Kaioken x100 when he was being beaten by other opponents. That multiplier is the same as a SSJ2.

There's no need for that, we already know the explanation which is that the movies make no sense when you consider canon and therefore we should not use canon power level logic when discussing them.

[apex_pretador]

Hey man . Sup ??


Ok .

Freeza Saga Base Vegito [Post SSj Base Goku and Final Zenkai Vegeta] vs Perfect Cell [Full Power] .... and then the same Vegito as SSj vs Super Perfect Cell

I see, you got your way here.

There are different ways to look at vegetto's power level. As of now, I believe that vegetto's power depends on the highest form unlocked. So, this base vegetto would have little chance against perfect cell, cell wins.

Super vegetto on the other hand, turns out to be around majin vegeta level and can beat cell with his bare hands.

Next

SSG Vegeta vs Beerus [Super anime fight]
Would Vegeta fare better than Goku did ?

Vegeta dies because beerus can't tolerate his arrogance. One of the reasons goku survived was because he's goku. It is noted by king kai that goku even befriended beerus. Characters like golden freeza, SSG vegeta would get killed by beerus.

Supreme Kai vs Final Form Freeza 100% [Freeza Saga]

I don't buy kaioshin being definitely stronger than piccolo, but he did say that he can one-shot freeza.

SMPOM won't stand a chance against Beerus, let alone Zeno.

He would beat Beerus but lose to Zeno.

Not really. Beerus is a universe-ender. Superman p1m needed a GL ring to beat a weakened solaris. 15,000 years into sun can only take you so far.

Hey guys, what if Lord Slug (the Movie 4 villian) vs Salza (from Movie 5, the strongest of Cooler's Armored Squadron) if we assume the Goku who fought Lord Slug is the Goku from Ginyu Saga?

Slug wins because you are assuming that this goku = ginyu arc goku.

[DSB]

Hey man . Sup ??


Ok .

Freeza Saga Base Vegito [Post SSj Base Goku and Final Zenkai Vegeta] vs Perfect Cell [Full Power] .... and then the same Vegito as SSj vs Super Perfect Cell

I see, you got your way here.

ya .. Hows everything there at CV ?

Supreme Kai vs Final Form Freeza 100% [Freeza Saga]

I don't buy kaioshin being definitely stronger than piccolo, but he did say that he can one-shot freeza.

Wait ... when did Kaioshin say he can one shot Freeza ???


New battles ........................

Pui Pui vs #18 [no 10x gravity planet]

Perfect Cell vs Zamasu [Equal stats , Cell can regen but at the cost of ki ]

Champa Arc Hit vs Post Zamasu Arc SSB Vegeta [Vegeta can counter Time Skip like Goku did]

[TheUltimateNinja]

Wait ... when did Kaioshin say he can one shot Freeza ???

It was when they were heading to Babidi's hideout, he states any Kaioshin could beat Frieza in one blow.

New battles ........................

Pui Pui vs #18 [no 10x gravity planet]

Perfect Cell vs Zamasu [Equal stats , Cell can regen but at the cost of ki ]

Champa Arc Hit vs Post Zamasu Arc SSB Vegeta [Vegeta can counter Time Skip like Goku did]

-#18 one-shots, she's much stronger than Buu Arc Base Vegeta who is in turn much stronger than Pui Pui.

-Cell has the greater skillset, with the addition of regeneration Zamasu doesn't stand a chance.

-Vegeta gets wrecked, Hit improved massively in that fight and was even able to go toe to toe with Kaioken Goku who's still far above Vegeta.

[dragonball0900]

I have the Base Saiyans in the Buu arc stronger than Piccolo, with the reasons stated thorughout the manga.
In order to make it sense it's that I have the SSJ multipliers get smaller, for example in the Frieza saga it was a X50, but after all the training they had through the series, with the new transformations and getting used to them, I found it hard to believe the SSJ multiplier stated at X50 all the time, maybe it's now a X5, or even a X2.5 or X3.
I still believe that A18 can defeat Pui Pui.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Not really. Beerus is a universe-ender. Superman p1m needed a GL ring to beat a weakened solaris. 15,000 years into sun can only take you so far.

He can stop universes from collapsing as shown when he rescued the Atom.