The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[dragonball0900]

Really? Yamcha was able to follow Goku vs Tien going at young piccolo daimao (full power) , able to hurt Kami, who finger-flicked post daimao goku.
Yamcha finger-flicks goku.

Yeah I know, and I agree. It's just that some people believe in the 180 number of Goku and instantly say he would beat Yamcha, when basing on the manga, that's not true.

Yeah, I agree that Yamcha would beat 22nd Budokai Goku, but not King Piccolo though.

[ryan1227]

Many people will fall into this. I don't know why, but I'm sure.

Goku from the 22nd Budokai vs Yamcha from the 23rd Budokai

Tenshinhan, who was nearly on par with 22nd Budokai Goku, was completely unable to follow a suppressed Piccolo Daimao and Post-Water Goku. (Heck, he couldn't even follow Drum) Yamcha was able to follow Weighted Goku, who was just as fast as his speed against Full Power Piccolo Daimao. Goku wouldn't be able to even harm Yamcha.

[nickzambuto]

Really? Yamcha was able to follow Goku vs Tien going at young piccolo daimao (full power) , able to hurt Kami, who finger-flicked post daimao goku.
Yamcha finger-flicks goku.

Yeah I know, and I agree. It's just that some people believe in the 180 number of Goku and instantly say he would beat Yamcha, when basing on the manga, that's not true.

Yeah, I agree that Yamcha would beat 22nd Budokai Goku, but not King Piccolo though.

Kami finger-flicked the Goku who beat the Daimao yet Yamcha actually had a fight with Kami. Well, it wasn't a good fight, but Kami was actually moving around and dodging and throwing strikes, and the Spirit Ball gave him a genuine spook. By the end, he was very impressed with Yamcha.

Yamcha doesn't finger flick the Daimao, but he should be stronger by then. He does finger flick 22nd Goku though.

[dragonball0900]

Really? Yamcha was able to follow Goku vs Tien going at young piccolo daimao (full power) , able to hurt Kami, who finger-flicked post daimao goku.
Yamcha finger-flicks goku.

Yeah I know, and I agree. It's just that some people believe in the 180 number of Goku and instantly say he would beat Yamcha, when basing on the manga, that's not true.

Yeah, I agree that Yamcha would beat 22nd Budokai Goku, but not King Piccolo though.

Kami finger-flicked the Goku who beat the Daimao yet Yamcha actually had a fight with Kami. Well, it wasn't a good fight, but Kami was actually moving around and dodging and throwing strikes, and the Spirit Ball gave him a genuine spook. By the end, he was very impressed with Yamcha.

Yamcha doesn't finger flick the Daimao, but he should be stronger by then. He does finger flick 22nd Goku though.

Kami wasn't taking the fight seriously at all. I'll admit, however, that the spirit ball is something that can make Yamcha to have the advantage against Daimao, but I don't see him or Krillin surpassing Daimao, they might be finger flicked by Kami too. I mean, both of them were amazed to see Tien and Goku's incredible speed and strenght, they were capable of seeing them, but it seems like they also struggled a bit. I would say is more like

22nd Budokai Goku < Old King Piccolo < Yamcha < Krillin < King Piccolo = Goku post-water < Tien < Goku with weights (strenght, not speed)

Krillin would probably give King Piccolo a great fight, but I see him as losing. Keep in mind that in the beggining of the Raditz saga, Yamcha was 177 and Krillin 206. I don't believe the 260 number of King Piccolo because of Tien's 250 number, manga > guide books after all. If I would give a number to King Piccolo, it would probably be 220 or so. For King Piccolo to be below 177 it would seem really weak.

That's just my opinion though.

[nickzambuto]

Gohan's Willpower vs Vegeta's Willpower.

One was an innocent child suddenly thrust into a war, not understanding what was happening, frightened, and with a responsibility that would completely crush most men dropped onto him, alone. Yet he burdened it. He trained under a demon every waking minute of his life for an entire year, he stood up to the saiyans, the most evil beings in the universe, even choosing to return to the battle of his own accord for the sake of his father, even while everyone was telling him to run away. He braved the trip into deep space, attacked Dodoria without a care for his own well being, and even stood up against Recoome all on his own. Finally, in the ultimate battle against the super perfect being, whose power rivaled his own, but left with only a single arm effectively halving his power, an utterly hopeless situation, somehow, he went beyond his limits and generated the power to push through, through just the power of his will.

One was a natural born warrior bred to believe he was the best, too single-minded and stubborn to realize when he was beaten. He could take any damage, any pain, and his rage would only make his conviction stronger. Through nothing but sheer willpower, he went against nature, went against destiny, and achieved the legendary Super Saiyan form that was meant for Goku. An actual freak of nature. And his will to protect his family pushed him so vastly beyond his limits on numerous occasions, doing the impossible, a mortal briefly overpowering the God of Destruction, and even becoming a god himself through nothing but sheer, simple effort.

[nickzambuto]

Yeah I know, and I agree. It's just that some people believe in the 180 number of Goku and instantly say he would beat Yamcha, when basing on the manga, that's not true.

Yeah, I agree that Yamcha would beat 22nd Budokai Goku, but not King Piccolo though.

Kami finger-flicked the Goku who beat the Daimao yet Yamcha actually had a fight with Kami. Well, it wasn't a good fight, but Kami was actually moving around and dodging and throwing strikes, and the Spirit Ball gave him a genuine spook. By the end, he was very impressed with Yamcha.

Yamcha doesn't finger flick the Daimao, but he should be stronger by then. He does finger flick 22nd Goku though.

Kami wasn't taking the fight seriously at all. I'll admit, however, that the spirit ball is something that can make Yamcha to have the advantage against Daimao, but I don't see him or Krillin surpassing Daimao, they might be finger flicked by Kami too. I mean, both of them were amazed to see Tien and Goku's incredible speed and strenght, they were capable of seeing them, but it seems like they also struggled a bit. I would say is more like

22nd Budokai Goku < Old King Piccolo < Yamcha < Krillin < King Piccolo = Goku post-water < Tien < Goku with weights (strenght, not speed)

Krillin would probably give King Piccolo a great fight, but I see him as losing. Keep in mind that in the beggining of the Raditz saga, Yamcha was 177 and Krillin 206. I don't believe the 260 number of King Piccolo because of Tien's 250 number, manga > guide books after all. If I would give a number to King Piccolo, it would probably be 220 or so. For King Piccolo to be below 177 it would seem really weak.

That's just my opinion though.

He was obviously taking the fight more seriously than a literally-effortless flick. You say that Yamcha might be flicked by Kami too... but he wasn't. Kami was actively moving and fighting and dodging and throwing actual strikes. Yes Yamcha was weaker than Tenshinhan... so what? Tenshinhan was much stronger than Daimao by that point. He was speedblitzing Goku when Goku's speed was on par with the speed that defeated Daimao. If Yamcha could perceive Tenshinhan's movements, even if it was a struggle, when the Goku who beat Daimao wouldn't be able to, that confirms Yamcha is stronger than Daimao.

Krillin would do more than give Daimao a great fight because he gave Ma Junior a great fight. Even withholding the majority of his power, Ma Junior was levels above his father. Evidence by him already being slightly stronger than Kami without powering up. This confirms that Krillin was much stronger than Daimao.

[ryan1227]

Tenshinhan was much stronger than Daimao by that point. He was speedblitzing Goku when Goku's speed was on par with the speed that defeated Daimao. If Yamcha could perceive Tenshinhan's movements, even if it was a struggle, when the Goku who beat Daimao wouldn't be able to, that confirms Yamcha is stronger than Daimao.

Yamcha was actually struggling to follow Tenshinhan's suppressed speed, which is on par with Post Water Goku's speed. Neither Yamcha nor Kuririn could follow Ten's full speed.

Even withholding the majority of his power, Ma Junior was levels above his father. Evidence by him already being slightly stronger than Kami without powering up. This confirms that Krillin was much stronger than Daimao.

Piccolo (and by extension, Kami) must've had an effort increase in between his fight with Kuririn and his fight with Kami, as it is only at Piccolo vs. Kami that Tenshinhan admits their power is inconceivable.

Chapter: 181, P1.5-6
Context: as Shen and Piccolo fight
Kame-sennin: “Th…they’re too strong…”
Bulma: “H…how can these two exist…?”
Yamcha: “Da…dammit…So that’s why we couldn’t win.”
Tenshinhan: “There’s no helping it…They far surpass any level ordinarily conceivable.”

[dragonball0900]

He was obviously taking the fight more seriously than a literally-effortless flick. You say that Yamcha might be flicked by Kami too... but he wasn't. Kami was actively moving and fighting and dodging and throwing actual strikes. Yes Yamcha was weaker than Tenshinhan... so what? Tenshinhan was much stronger than Daimao by that point. He was speedblitzing Goku when Goku's speed was on par with the speed that defeated Daimao. If Yamcha could perceive Tenshinhan's movements, even if it was a struggle, when the Goku who beat Daimao wouldn't be able to, that confirms Yamcha is stronger than Daimao.

Krillin would do more than give Daimao a great fight because he gave Ma Junior a great fight. Even withholding the majority of his power, Ma Junior was levels above his father. Evidence by him already being slightly stronger than Kami without powering up. This confirms that Krillin was much stronger than Daimao.

Yes, Kami was moving and dodging, but judging by his expression, he was really holding back a lot. It was only by the spirit ball when he took the fight a bit more seriously.

Also I checked the manga and Krillin and Yamcha weren't able to see Tien's full speed, they couldn't see him, and they were only able to see Goku (who's speed is equal to 3 years earlier). So if they were only able to see just Goku, and not Tien, then that shows that they are not stronger than King Piccolo.

Piccolo obviously would be surprised to Krillin's big strenght because he only fought with simple tournament fighters previously. He thought Krillin was a normal human opponent, and it turns out he was much stronger than what he thought. That's why he had problems at first. I think Krillin is much closer to King Piccolo, but not that much.

[Angelus]

Android #13, #14, #15 VS SSJ Vegeta, Piccolo (no weighted clothes on), SSJ Future Trunks (with sword)
[All pre-ROSAT; Androids Saga, specifically, all healed from eating senzu beans right after being beat up by Android #18 and #17]

[dragonball0900]

Androids #13, #14, #15 VS SSJ Vegeta, Piccolo (no weighted clothes on), SSJ Goku (healthy)
[All pre-ROSAT, Androids Saga]

Vegeta was slightly stronger than A15, A14 was a bit inferior to Trunks, who's weaker than Vegeta. A13 was equal to Goku, who is also around Vegeta's level. Piccolo might have the same strenght of A14 or maybe below, but he would still be a good help along with the saiyans.

I guess is a: Piccolo <= A14 < SSJ Trunks < A15 < SSJ Vegeta = SSJ Goku = 13

I suppose this is without A13 transforming, so I give the team of the saiyans and Piccolo a win after a very tough battle, specially since we put Piccolo instead of Trunks.

[Angelus]

Ah darn. I wasn't able to edit the versus earlier. I changed it up a bit XD

[DanielSSJ]

Android #13, #14, #15 VS SSJ Vegeta, Piccolo (no weighted clothes on), SSJ Future Trunks (with sword)
[All pre-ROSAT; Androids Saga, specifically, all healed from eating senzu beans right after being beat up by Android #18 and #17]

Vegeta and Trunks were already stronger than the movie Androids and Piccolo stalemates them at the very least. Assuming that Vegeta and Trunks don't goof off in their base forms, they should sweep the 'droids with mild difficulty.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Grade 3 MSSJ Goku (No speed loss) vs Perfect Cell.

[Angelus]

alright, time to have a gag versus:

Dick size contest! Ox King VS USSJ Future Trunks VS Bacterian VS Wild Tiger/MoKekko VS Antoine the Great VS Majin Spopovich VS Strong King's Guard

[nickzambuto]

alright, time to have a gag versus:

Dick size contest! Ox King VS USSJ Future Trunks VS Bacterian VS Wild Tiger/MoKekko VS Antoine the Great VS Majin Spopovich VS Strong King's Guard

Trunks is the only one who can control his ki. Therefore, even though he's a bit smaller than everyone else here, he can pump all of that USSJ energy straight into his penis and it would grow equivocal to how much the form increased his muscle mass.

[dragonball0900]

Grade 3 MSSJ Goku (No speed loss) vs Perfect Cell.

I'll probably give Goku the win after a tough battle, considering how much of a boost the transformation was when Trunks transformed before.

[Ki Breaker]

alright, time to have a gag versus:

Dick size contest! Ox King VS USSJ Future Trunks VS Bacterian VS Wild Tiger/MoKekko VS Antoine the Great VS Majin Spopovich VS Strong King's Guard

Well junk is a muscle and seeing how much increase ussj had on trunks it's safe to say he can grow it at least bigger than a horse if he tried

[DanielSSJ]

Grade 3 MSSJ Goku (No speed loss) vs Perfect Cell.

Saying "Mastered Super Saiyan Grade 3" or "Grade 3 without speed loss" is basically the same as saying Super Saiyan 2. Goku becomes quite a bit stronger than regular Perfect Cell (not as much as Gohan, obviously) and is more-or-less a match for Bulky Perfect Cell in raw power. Barring any near-death power-ups, Goku should have this in the bag.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Grade 3 MSSJ Goku (No speed loss) vs Perfect Cell.

Saying "Mastered Super Saiyan Grade 3" or "Grade 3 without speed loss" is basically the same as saying Super Saiyan 2. Goku becomes quite a bit stronger than regular Perfect Cell (not as much as Gohan, obviously) and is more-or-less a match for Bulky Perfect Cell in raw power. Barring any near-death power-ups, Goku should have this in the bag.

By my numbers Grade 3's multiplier is lower than SSJ2's by a decent amount.

[DanielSSJ]

By my numbers Grade 3's multiplier is lower than SSJ2's by a decent amount.

Since I sorta see Grade 2 and Grade 3 as inefficient versions of Super Saiyan 2, I treat Grade 3 as having roughly the same power boost.