The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[apex_pretador]

Kami was able to finger flick Post-Divine Water Goku who was just as strong if not stronger than Young Piccolo, and he was already quite old by then. I doubt with just a few more years he'd suddenly tank below Piccolo.

Imagine a 75 year old man and compare him to when he was 5 years ago. A lot can possibly change to people who are old. It's certainly plausible for him to become weaker than the Daimao in several years, especially when he do nothing but hang around in his place and oversee the world.

Kami was moer like 300 years old, and goes on to live for like 5 years till anfroids without any issue. It is most certainly not old age.
Also, dropping down from a level to where he can literally knock out a post daimao zenkai goku with a mere flick of his finger without even paying attention, to where Piccolo would one-shot him , with no indication in manga about it, is pretty far feteched.

Not to mention he uses himself as a measuring stick against earthlings "You have all surpassed ME now" not mr popo. He also mentions he can't teach them anything else, so they must go down and train by sparring. If popo was indeed as strong as or stronger than them, then Kami wouldn't have sent them down because being on lookout was useless.

As for popo being stronger, why doesn't he improve a bit while training goku, when Popo trained goku for a majority of the time, and becomes stronger with humans despite Kami taking over the training?

[Khin]

Kami did said that he’s old and his end his near. (I think he said it somewhere in the Saiyan arc, but I haven’t watched a big part of the series for a long time so correct me if I’m wrong.) He also didn’t get much role in the Z-era, so naturally, it’s hard to get any indication on where he stands power-wise.

As for Kami’s statement about him and the earthlings, naturally, he won’t say “You have all surpassed me and Mr. Popo now”, since Popo was still stronger than Chaozu and Yajirobe.

Him sending the earthlings back down doesn’t necessarily mean that it is only because him and Popo has become far weaker than them. Likewise, them being far weaker than the earthlings doesn’t mean that training with them would be worthless, look at Goku who still constantly trains with Kaio. Like what Kami himself said, its just that he and Popo no longer has anything to teach them so it is better off if he send them back down and hone their skills on their own.

Mister Popo probably also got stronger by training Goku, there’s no indication that he didn’t, no? He didn’t reach the same level he reached in the Saiyan arc for probably the same reason why Goku also did not reach that level.

[dragonball0900]

Did he say that in the manga?

It wasn't necessarily stated outright, but Vegeta does insinuate that Kuririn and Gohan haven't done away with Ginyu yet because he looks like Goku. It's actually in the scan you put up above.

Well it was a 2v1 and both of them were close to 20k and Krillin had moves like the kienzan. Not to mention Ginyu didn't know any of his moves or how his body works so even if he was at 23k he might of been fighting like he was weaker than that. Also Vegeta just likes to be a dick, lol.

But it was stated, Goku also said that Krillin and Gohan could've finished Ginyu easily, but they didn't because of what Vegeta said.

I don't think Vegeta was telling nonsense at that moment, remember that he knows to sense ki, he knew how strong Gohan and Krillin actually are, and he downright stated that they were holding back because Ginyu looked like Goku, he knew that they are much stronger than what they are showing, specially Gohan, who had recieved a zenkai from Recoome, as well as his potential from Guru. Let's also not forget what Vegeta said, that their powers were incresing during time.

Also, if Krillin wasn't 23K, and was still 13K, do you think he could've managed to fight Ginyu like what's shown in the manga? Specially considering the difference between a 18K and 24K fight.

Kami did said that he’s old and his end his near. (I think he said it somewhere in the Saiyan arc, but I haven’t watched a big part of the series for a long time so correct me if I’m wrong.) He also didn’t get much role in the Z-era, so naturally, it’s hard to get any indication on where he stands power-wise.

Kami didn't say his end was near due to him being old, the reason why is because he felt Piccolo was going to die against the Saiyans.

[Khin]

Kami didn't say his end was near due to him being old, the reason why is because he felt Piccolo was going to die against the Saiyans.

He felt that either of the two is going to happen. I don’t have the scan, but I believe this is Kami’s statement regarding this matter:

• Kami: "I knew something was amiss when Raditz's soul, after he was killed by Piccolo, ended up in the underworld... Usually, the souls of those killed by demons cannot rest in peace, and drift in space, suffering... The fact that the Piccolo-killed Raditz was in the underworld, nevertheless, means that Piccolo is clearly different from before... Perhaps he is even aware of it...aware that I...and thus he, Piccolo...have only one year to live..."
  Mister Popo: "... One year..."
  Kami: "I do not know, however, if that is because Piccolo is going to be killed by the Saiyans when they arrive in a year...or if my lifespan happens to end around that time..."

This seems to be some kind of foreshadowing to Piccolo and Kami’s death at the battle with the Saiyans. Therefore, Kami’s premonition here seems to be towards Piccolo’s death at the hands of Nappa.

But, if Kami considers the possibility of him possibly dying in a year due to natural lifespan, that could mean that at the very least, he’s aware of his current state and that he’s going to die naturally relatively soon, which would make sense if Kami is considerably getting weaker over the years.

[dragon boss z]

It wasn't necessarily stated outright, but Vegeta does insinuate that Kuririn and Gohan haven't done away with Ginyu yet because he looks like Goku. It's actually in the scan you put up above.

Well it was a 2v1 and both of them were close to 20k and Krillin had moves like the kienzan. Not to mention Ginyu didn't know any of his moves or how his body works so even if he was at 23k he might of been fighting like he was weaker than that. Also Vegeta just likes to be a dick, lol.

But it was stated, Goku also said that Krillin and Gohan could've finished Ginyu easily, but they didn't because of what Vegeta said.

I don't think Vegeta was telling nonsense at that moment, remember that he knows to sense ki, he knew how strong Gohan and Krillin actually are, and he downright stated that they were holding back because Ginyu looked like Goku, he knew that they are much stronger than what they are showing, specially Gohan, who had recieved a zenkai from Recoome, as well as his potential from Guru. Let's also not forget what Vegeta said, that their powers were incresing during time.

It wasn't stated they could of won easily. And it was a 2v1. I do think Krillin was above 13k though. Both him and Gohan could of been 16,000 to 24,000. Also Ginyu can't fight as good as Gohan or Krillin and doesn't know how to raise attack in bursts of power.

[RedShift]

Buuhan vs Janemba and Hirudegarn simultaneously.

Battlefield is in Hell, the same place Goku fights Super Janemba.

[Ki Breaker]

Buuhan vs Janemba and Hirudegarn simultaneously.

Battlefield is in Hell, the same place Goku fights Super Janemba.

Power wise buuhan is in a little disadvantage, but I still see buuhan taking this

[dragonball0900]

It wasn't stated they could of won easily. And it was a 2v1. I do think Krillin was above 13k though. Both him and Gohan could of been 16,000 to 24,000. Also Ginyu can't fight as good as Gohan or Krillin and doesn't know how to raise attack in bursts of power.

It doesn't really matter if it was a 2 vs 1 battle, they were holding back, Vegeta said so, since Ginyu looks like Goku. Goku even said after the 23,000 reading from Jeice's scouter that Gohan and Krillin are able to defeat Ginyu. Also a ki blast from Ginyu did no harm to Gohan at all, and Gohan even said that it was nothing to him, and we also see that Ginyu was fighting on par with Krillin, that makes Ginyu around Krillin's level, but a lot weaker than Gohan. They were only losing because they were holding back since Ginyu looks too much like Goku.

There's also a reason why Vegeta would need Gohan and Krillin's help against Frieza after all too, which makes the 75,000 number of Krillin to make sense, at least at the end of the battle of Frieza, since his power kept rising and rising.

[Ki Breaker]

Super's Yamcha vs Super's Roshi

[apex_pretador]

Buuhan vs Janemba and Hirudegarn simultaneously.

Battlefield is in Hell, the same place Goku fights Super Janemba.

Hirdugarn hit gotenks so hard that he defused. He solos

[Gog]

Hit V Merged Zamasu. Merged Zamasu only has regeneration, no immortality.

[Ki Breaker]

Hit V Merged Zamasu. Merged Zamasu only has regeneration, no immortality.

Merged Zamasu takes this in an instant

[Gog]

Hit V Merged Zamasu. Merged Zamasu only has regeneration, no immortality.

Merged Zamasu takes this in an instant

Damnit, thought he could take it.

Hit can now potara fuse with Finial form Freeza ROF.

[Ki Breaker]

Hit V Merged Zamasu. Merged Zamasu only has regeneration, no immortality.

Merged Zamasu takes this in an instant

Damnit, thought he could take it.

Hit can now potara fuse with Finial form Freeza ROF.

Tough fight, not only freeza has problems maintaining his golden form the potara has a time limit in energy usage too..

Vegetto's final Kamehameha didn't even phase merged Zamasu, we didn't even see him regenerate, he just straight up flew upwards( unless you believe the theory that it killed the black part of him )
even keeping hit freeza fusion at same level as vegetto still merged Zamasu take it..

[Gog]

Merged Zamasu takes this in an instant

Damnit, thought he could take it.

Hit can now potara fuse with Finial form Freeza ROF.

Tough fight, not only freeza has problems maintaining his golden form the potara has a time limit in energy usage too..

Vegetto's final Kamehameha didn't even phase merged Zamasu, we didn't even see him regenerate, he just straight up flew upwards( unless you believe the theory that it killed the black part of him )
even keeping hit freeza fusion at same level as vegetto still merged Zamasu take it..

But remember Zamasu no longer has any immortality, and Fret knows of one of his half's weakness's, and Fret has all of Hit, and his juicy, juicy skillz, and Hax. And besides Fret would be leagues above Vegito SSB as Hit's SSB level, and the future would be capable of transforming.

[Ki Breaker]

Damnit, thought he could take it.

Hit can now potara fuse with Finial form Freeza ROF.

Tough fight, not only freeza has problems maintaining his golden form the potara has a time limit in energy usage too..

Vegetto's final Kamehameha didn't even phase merged Zamasu, we didn't even see him regenerate, he just straight up flew upwards( unless you believe the theory that it killed the black part of him )
even keeping hit freeza fusion at same level as vegetto still merged Zamasu take it..

But remember Zamasu no longer has any immortality, and Fret knows of one of his half's weakness's, and Fret has all of Hit, and his juicy, juicy skillz, and Hax. And besides Fret would be leagues above Vegito SSB as Hit's SSB level, and the future would be capable of transforming.

Hit isn't SSB level, no..
It was made to be a point hit was able to keep up with goku only because of tokitobashi..
Golden freeza is stronger than SSB hence hreeza is more or less equal to SSB..

If you want to place hit at SSB level, then yes, zamasu loses to the fusion

[Gog]

Tough fight, not only freeza has problems maintaining his golden form the potara has a time limit in energy usage too..

Vegetto's final Kamehameha didn't even phase merged Zamasu, we didn't even see him regenerate, he just straight up flew upwards( unless you believe the theory that it killed the black part of him )
even keeping hit freeza fusion at same level as vegetto still merged Zamasu take it..

But remember Zamasu no longer has any immortality, and Fret knows of one of his half's weakness's, and Fret has all of Hit, and his juicy, juicy skillz, and Hax. And besides Fret would be leagues above Vegito SSB as Hit's SSB level, and the future would be capable of transforming.

Hit isn't SSB level, no..
It was made to be a point hit was able to keep up with goku only because of tokitobashi..
Golden freeza is stronger than SSB hence Freeza is more or less equal to SSB..

If you want to place hit at SSB level, then yes, zamasu loses to the fusion

I'd say that Hit is a few levels above Base Goku, but below SSB Goku, where he can fight him, and not get exploded by the simplest tap.

[Ki Breaker]

Hit isn't SSB level, no..
It was made to be a point hit was able to keep up with goku only because of tokitobashi..
Golden freeza is stronger than SSB hence Freeza is more or less equal to SSB..

If you want to place hit at SSB level, then yes, zamasu loses to the fusion

I'd say that Hit is a few levels above Base Goku, but below SSB Goku, where he can fight him, and not get exploded by the simplest tap.

"hence hreeza is more or less equal to SSB"
This wasn't a mistake, I named the fusion hreeza

[Gog]

Hit isn't SSB level, no..
It was made to be a point hit was able to keep up with goku only because of tokitobashi..
Golden freeza is stronger than SSB hence Freeza is more or less equal to SSB..

If you want to place hit at SSB level, then yes, zamasu loses to the fusion

I'd say that Hit is a few levels above Base Goku, but below SSB Goku, where he can fight him, and not get exploded by the simplest tap.

"hence hreeza is more or less equal to SSB"
This wasn't a mistake, I named the fusion hreeza

Hreeza? Frit sounds much better compared to Hreeza, but that's a secret

[dragon boss z]

It wasn't stated they could of won easily. And it was a 2v1. I do think Krillin was above 13k though. Both him and Gohan could of been 16,000 to 24,000. Also Ginyu can't fight as good as Gohan or Krillin and doesn't know how to raise attack in bursts of power.

It doesn't really matter if it was a 2 vs 1 battle, they were holding back, Vegeta said so, since Ginyu looks like Goku. Goku even said after the 23,000 reading from Jeice's scouter that Gohan and Krillin are able to defeat Ginyu. Also a ki blast from Ginyu did no harm to Gohan at all, and Gohan even said that it was nothing to him, and we also see that Ginyu was fighting on par with Krillin, that makes Ginyu around Krillin's level, but a lot weaker than Gohan. They were only losing because they were holding back since Ginyu looks too much like Goku.

There's also a reason why Vegeta would need Gohan and Krillin's help against Frieza after all too, which makes the 75,000 number of Krillin to make sense, at least at the end of the battle of Frieza, since his power kept rising and rising.

Like I said I could see them around 23,000. I just don't see Krillin getting to 75,000. And Krillin did nothing in that fight besides destructo disc. And Gohan couldn't do anything without raging out.