Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[ABED]

Sure, it does go against those lessons, but you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I'm aware, I've made multiple arguments, in this forum and out, that Goku developed to be a less merciful person after Freeza betrayed him. When the scene was leaked, you can't believe how mad I got, lol. It goes completely against one of the original lessons of the Dragon Ball manga that Roshi tried to teach Goku but didn't feel like he needed to learn it (and a lesson that BoG pushed forth, too): "There's always someone stronger, so don't get cocky". It also goes completely against Popo's training because Goku being cocky was his downfall in his first match against Popo, too, and he learned not to overestimate his abilities or underestimate his opponent.

But that lesson is counterintuitive, because, by definition, someone has to be the strongest, so for that person, there's no one stronger than them.

[fadeddreams5]

Goku isn't omnipresent, so even if he's by definition the strongest, he doesn't know that. Roshi's goal was to prove that by having a stranger ("Jackie Chun") beat him at his peak.

[Kamiccolo9]

Goku isn't omnipresent, so even if he's by definition the strongest, he doesn't know that. Roshi's goal was to prove that by having a stranger ("Jackie Chun") beat him at his peak.

"Omniscient" is the word you're looking for.

[fadeddreams5]

No, you silly! If he's present everywhere at the same time, surely he'd know there's someone stronger than him in the universe!

Yeah, I meant omniscient...

[Cold Skin]

Good news as it seems the original French voice cast is back on track, probably due to the avalanche of messages that Toei has received, saying they were unaware of the issue and would be looking into it.
French fans have signed a petition of over 1,600 signatures in one day to get the classic cast and crew back (whose performances and translations have been acclaimed with the French versions of Battle of Gods and Kai) instead of having an entirely new team in charge.

Eric Legrand (French voice for Vegeta) has posted on his facebook:
"Well, I've just learned at this very moment that the French dub will ultimately happen in Paris with the usual cast and crew! To be continued. Because as long as I don't have a specific recording date, I can't confirm at 100% my involvement. I have to specify that I've heard this in a way that is just as reliable as the previous information and mostly in the same way actually.
I can't help but wonder to what extent all the noise you've made about this has possibly been responsible for this sudden turnaround. And let's be profesionnal here, never make me say what I didn't say. Just take what I say at face value.
Anyway, this is most amusing to me... And what will be left of this whole story in a hundred years?
Let's just go enjoy the sun and smile to the birds. "

[rereboy]

I'm aware, I've made multiple arguments, in this forum and out, that Goku developed to be a less merciful person after Freeza betrayed him. When the scene was leaked, you can't believe how mad I got, lol. It goes completely against one of the original lessons of the Dragon Ball manga that Roshi tried to teach Goku but didn't feel like he needed to learn it (and a lesson that BoG pushed forth, too): "There's always someone stronger, so don't get cocky". It also goes completely against Popo's training because Goku being cocky was his downfall in his first match against Popo, too, and he learned not to overestimate his abilities or underestimate his opponent.

But that lesson is counterintuitive, because, by definition, someone has to be the strongest, so for that person, there's no one stronger than them.

You are getting too caught up in the literal meaning of the lesson. The lesson makes you assume that there is always someone stronger, or, in other words, it tells you to never get cocky/over-confident/too relaxed about your own power and abilities, because there is a very good chance it will bite you in the ass.

That lesson has existed since the 21st tournament and yet, in the latest movie, Goku forgets that lesson, even when he has been recently reminded that he's very weak compared to some people (Beerus, Whis).

[ABED]

You assume he forgot. He probably remembers, but it's hard to always practice it.

[rereboy]

Forgetting and not caring and not practicing what the lesson teaches amount to the same thing.

And I disagree it's hard. Hard was Goku taking Mr. Popo as a threat immediately after beating Piccolo Daimao since, with his appearance and Ki control, he was very hard to be perceived as someone that powerful. Goku having the good sense of not powering down so much in front of a very powerful Freeza that could still fight is not remotely as hard.

[Faustus]

The Goku of RoF has recently attained a level he never thought imaginable, and is fighting an old foe who in hindsight he denigrated as not much of one in the JSAT special. Of course he's getting cocky.

Also, regression isn't necessarily bad characterization - so long as something fresh eventually comes of it.

[ABED]

Forgetting and not caring and not practicing what the lesson teaches amount to the same thing.

And I disagree it's hard. Hard was Goku taking Mr. Popo as a threat immediately after beating Piccolo Daimao since, with his appearance and Ki control, he was very hard to be perceived as someone that powerful. Goku having the good sense of not powering down so much in front of a very powerful Freeza that could still fight is not remotely as hard.

I don't think it's that he doesn't care, it's that it's difficult to change, and who wouldn't be confident against a foe they defeated and humiliated?

Maybe I'm not remembering it correctly, but I don't recall Goku being overconfident against Mr. Popo as much as simply naive.

[Doctor.]

The Goku of RoF has recently attained a level he never thought imaginable, and is fighting an old foe who in hindsight he denigrated as not much of one in the JSAT special. Of course he's getting cocky.

Even after he repeatedly, in the movie, praised Freeza for his efforts and being so strong and actually acknowledging Freeza was stronger? Yea, I don't think so. He may have been cocky at the start, and he was, but that should have disappeared as the fight went on and Freeza proved his strength.

Also, regression isn't necessarily bad characterization - so long as something fresh eventually comes of it.

You're asking too much from this series. Goku isn't going to come to a sudden realization that he was in the wrong and try to improve himself learning from that, even if I wish that to be the case. He's gonna stay the same, because he's Goku and Goku is too valuable to be changed.

[rereboy]

The Goku of RoF has recently attained a level he never thought imaginable, and is fighting an old foe who in hindsight he denigrated as not much of one in the JSAT special. Of course he's getting cocky.

Also, regression isn't necessarily bad characterization - so long as something fresh eventually comes of it.

Freeza is nowhere near the level he was before. He had massive gains and can easily keep up with that level that Goku never thought imaginable. His previous level isn't relevant at all.

[Saiyan007]

The funny thing to me is that after knowing how strong Freeza got in just a short amount of time Goku was willing to let him go if Freeza had left Goku wouldn't have stopped him

Z fighters should really cast a vote becuase i don't think Goku should speak for everyone

[ABED]

because he's Goku and Goku is too valuable to be changed.

I don't think that it would be so big a change that he'd be unrecognizable.

[Faustus]

Neither do I. Let's just wait and see.

Freeza is nowhere near the level he was before. He had massive gains and can easily keep up with that level that Goku never thought imaginable. His previous level isn't relevant at all.

Fine then.

Even after he repeatedly, in the movie, praised Freeza for his efforts and being so strong and actually acknowledging Freeza was stronger?

Yep, after all that, but also after he has Freeza once again defeated and at his mercy.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

Madman Entertainment (the Australian and New Zealand distributors of the Dragon Ball series) have updated their Reel Anime website, an event which releases popular anime films here to Australian and New Zealand theatres for a limited time. Resurrection 'F' is now listed on the site and it seems to be the next upcoming film in theatres.

Here's the website: http://www.reelanime.com/coming

And here's the poster shown off on the site:

Spoiler:

Madman usually hand out free A2 sized posters of their Reel Anime films before entering a theatre (I got one of Battle of Gods )

I suspect that a release date and session times will be added soon so keep checking back on the website if you live in Australia or New Zealand.

[ShadowWolf87]

The Goku of RoF has recently attained a level he never thought imaginable, and is fighting an old foe who in hindsight he denigrated as not much of one in the JSAT special. Of course he's getting cocky.

Even after he repeatedly, in the movie, praised Freeza for his efforts and being so strong and actually acknowledging Freeza was stronger? Yea, I don't think so. He may have been cocky at the start, and he was, but that should have disappeared as the fight went on and Freeza proved his strength.

Yes, he repeatedly praised Freeza for his newfound strength and skill. He also was grinning even while losing because he'd seen Freeza's weakness, which Freeza himself hadn't yet seen. He saw that Freeza, in his haste, had rushed to face him instead of mastering his new power, thus is drained him rapidly. The same old mistake. He may have swallowed his pride enough to realize his own limitations and acknowledge a need to move beyond them, but he was still impatient and presumptive.

And therein lies the difference. He didn't simply finish Freeza off immediately because he assumed him beaten. He assumed, and Vegeta as well, that this was the same old Freeza who'd be too lost in his own head to think straight. Goku didn't count on Freeza making backup plans, especially with his level of arrogance and impatience. Vegeta didn't count on a battered Freeza being that gathered and coherent (not to mention desperate to just kill everyone) that he'd blow the planet, and with such ease to boot.

So these were not baseless assumptions, and they don't even come close to contradicting that lesson. Not even a little bit. Goku knew Freeza had been stronger. But he also knew Freeza was so weak he couldn't even hurt him. Were it not for Plans B and C, that would have been it.

[rereboy]

But he also knew Freeza was so weak he couldn't even hurt him.

Except if Goku decided to power down so much (that even a random laser ring can almost kill him) in front of a still able to fight Freeza. Then, Goku becomes easy prey to a fast sneak attack by Freeza or anyone else.

It doesn't matter how strong or weak Freeza is if Goku decides to power down to a much inferior level to his in front of him. In that situation, instead of Sorbet attacking, what if Freeza just attacked the planet like he did with Vegeta later? What if Freeza managed to rapidly attack Goku with an unseen sneak, faster than Goku could power up again? It wouldn't even have to be powerful since Goku powered down so much.

Goku simply failed in caring about the lesson that has existed since the 21st tournament.

[Darkblade1995]

What if the ring contained some of Freeza's power? I mean he himself said that they had a back up plan. Maybe he gave some of his ki to the ring, and that's why he was able to hurt Goku. Maybe Goku didn't power that much down after all.