The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[DBZGTKOSDH]

There is no power level that neads to be achived for transformation,,,

Daizenshuu (right?) disagrees with you.

Can you explain why Daizenshuu disagrees ?

Of course I can:

The ultimate Saiyan warrior that surpasses the limits of a regular Saiyan. Originally, the existence of this form outside of legend was doubted even among Saiyans, but in reality any Saiyan that possesses a high battle power above the standard level is capable of becoming a Super Saiyan. Possessing a calm heart, sensing extreme danger, feeling strong anger or sadness, or a danger to the Saiyan race itself seem to be states that are the essential keys to transforming. The outward signs of the transformation include an aura, golden hair that stands straight up, and sharp, hawk-like eyes with emerald-green pupils. In addition, a battle power 50 times that of normal is proof of the legendary mightiest warrior.

[Saiga]

I never really believed the argument that Goku wasn't using his full power as a Super Saiyan against Yakon, because the panel where he powers up to make Yakon explode looks exactly like his SS2 form. If he wasn't even close to full power against Yakon before (If Kiri are linear and he was meant to be close to or stronger than Yakon's 800 in his base form, then he must be only using a fraction of his Super Saiyan power when Yakon absorbs it. If that's the case, why would he go Super Saiyan 2 when he can emit so much more energy as a Super Saiyan?

Um... Yakon eats light energy, not power. SSJ Goku at full-power would not necessarily have emitted much more light. SSJ2, however, did.
Goku being at suppressed state at the time his power was captured by the Kiri device explains why Goku didn't seemingly increase his power 50 times and how Dabra was having a hard time against Gohan (who's weaker than Goku) even after being so confident he could take folks with 3,000 Kiri with ease.

I'm aware that Yakon eats light, but a stronger aura should admit more light and assuming Goku can get around ten times stronger before going SS2 he should emit a lot more light at full power. It seems more of a stretch to say that he wasn't at full power as a Super Saiyan.

As for Dabra, I personally believe going was a SS2 against him. So SS2 Gohan is stronger than SS Goku's 3,000 kiri but both he and Dabra are weaker than SS2 Goku. Considering Dabra was stated to be around Cell's level I'd say Gohan would need SS2 to fight him.

[Fox666]

Considering Dabra was stated to be around Cell's level I'd say Gohan would need SS2 to fight him.

Why?

Cell was never suggested to be far above the Super Saiyans, all we know is that Cell was confident he could handle Gohan, but is out-classed when he transforms in Super Saiyan 2.

Besides, Goku said he was "probably about as strong" as Cell, meaning Dabra doesn't necessarily can handle all opponents Cell could.

[Saiga]

Considering Dabra was stated to be around Cell's level I'd say Gohan would need SS2 to fight him.

Why?

Cell was never suggested to be far above the Super Saiyans, all we know is that Cell was confident he could handle Gohan, but is out-classed when he transforms in Super Saiyan 2.

Besides, Goku said he was "probably about as strong" as Cell, meaning Dabra doesn't necessarily can handle all opponents Cell could.

He was definitely above them at the Cell games. And Gohan isn't as strong as he was 7 years ago.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Considering Dabra was stated to be around Cell's level I'd say Gohan would need SS2 to fight him.

The manga always have sparks on SSJ2 & SSJ3 (except in some panels I think, which is an error), and Gohan was continiously shown having no sparks at all. So, I doubt that he was SSJ2.

[hleV]

a stronger aura should admit more light

... Stronger aura? More light? Aura always emits around the same amount of light for the same reason aura always has around the same size (not counting different forms here). We've seen how SSJ3 aura englightens Goku (previously black-colored parts of his clothes are now gray), so we can easily assume that SSJ2 does it too, just not to that extent. Also, apparently base form's aura doesn't emit light (or not enough of it) since Goku needed SSJ, so it's all about changing form, not powering up.

[lash]

SSJ2 Kid Gohan vs Perfect Cell(Post Zenkai)

Gohan, with big difficulties.

[Super Vegetto]

Is SSJ Gotenks Pre-RoSaT stronger than Goku ssj3 and Evil Buu ?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Super Vegetto]

The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

How to remove this thread ?

[CatouttaHell]

I'm going to assume that by Evil Boo you mean Pure Evil Boo/Gray Boo, as otherwise this versus makes no sense.

Anyway I personally feel that Gotenks would beat both of them at once. SSjin Gotenks (Pre) was stated to be above SSjin 3 Goku by Son himself and it was never contradicted. Son being able to sense Gotenks from the Kaioshin Realm just confirms it.

Pure Evil Boo is only a fraction of Dai Kaioshin Boo, who SSjin 3 Goku had a noticeable edge on at the very least so he is complete fodder here.

[Super Vegetto]

I'm going to assume that by Evil Boo you mean Pure Evil Boo/Gray Boo, as otherwise this versus makes no sense.

Anyway I personally feel that Gotenks would beat both of them at once. SSjin Gotenks (Pre) was stated to be above SSjin 3 Goku by Son himself and it was never contradicted. Son being able to sense Gotenks from the Kaioshin Realm just confirms it.

Pure Evil Boo is only a fraction of Dai Kaioshin Boo, who SSjin 3 Goku had a noticeable edge on at the very least so he is complete fodder here.

So its stated SSjin Gotenks (Pre) > Goku ssj3. So Goku ssj3 > Evil (Grey) Buu .Is Evil buu from Fat buu supressesd Kid buu side or ?
How Kid buu comperes with Evil buu in powers ?

[Kaboom]

The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

How to remove this thread ?

All merged, problem solved!:D

Anyway, I don't think Gotenks was quite up to the task. I figure as a Super Saiyan he was only around as powerful as Goku or Vegeta at Super Saiyan 2; he'd be able to put up a good fight against Boo, but not win yet. So compared to SSj3 Goku he's easily taken down in one hit. Goku, then, would likewise be able to fight back a little bit against Evil Boo, but is doomed to lose.

If you mean "Pure Evil Boo," as in the gray and skinny one who emerged from Mr. Boo, then HE is the weakest link here, and either Goku or Gotenks could take him out easily. Then Goku would beat Gotenks just as easily.

[Super Vegetto]

The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

How to remove this thread ?

All merged, problem solved!:D

Anyway, I don't think Gotenks was quite up to the task. I figure as a Super Saiyan he was only around as powerful as Goku or Vegeta at Super Saiyan 2; he'd be able to put up a good fight against Boo, but not win yet. So compared to SSj3 Goku he's easily taken down in one hit. Goku, then, would likewise be able to fight back a little bit against Evil Boo, but is doomed to lose.

If you mean "Pure Evil Boo," as in the gray and skinny one who emerged from Mr. Boo, then HE is the weakest link here, and either Goku or Gotenks could take him out easily. Then Goku would beat Gotenks just as easily.

Tnx . I also think ssj Gotenks (pre) is not above Goku ssj3 and Pure Evil Boo. But is there any proof except Goku being able to sense Gotenks from the Kaioshin Realm ? And yea what do you think about ssj Gotenks (post) vs Kid buu ? Lets say if Gotenks is serious and doesnt act stupid.

[FNF]

Anyway, all we know for fact is that;

1. Base Gotenks (pre RoSaT) is suggested to be high SSjin2 tier;

Piccolo: “Yo-you idiot! What are you saying?! You don’t know anything about Majin Boo’s fearsomeness! No matter how incredible you may be, at that level there’s still absolutely no way you’d be able to win!”

Piccolo referring to Gotenks' power as 'incredible' and talking about 'that level' is clearly referring back to how SSjin2's weren't able scratch Fat Boo imo.

2. SSjin Gotenks (pre RoSaT) is suggested to be stronger than Fat Boo;

- Piccolo flat out stating Gotenks would definitely fight Boo one day after they failed in base.
- Piccolo doesn't express any doubt about Gotenks being strong enough to wipe Boo out(quite the opposite really). He just wanted to see his speed (which isn't directly related to power in many cases) and Gotenks proved that his speed was more than enough.
- Piccolo only doubts Gotenks' ability to beat Boo when he realized they only had 1 minute of fusion left (not power related at all).
- Gotenks defusing is shown to be a comical way for AT to continue the series (ie keep Boo alive) like when he also powered down/defused when he was about to finish off Evil(Super) Boo.

3. SSjin Gotenks (pre RoSaT) is suggested to be in SSjin3 Goku's power range;

http://s1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa3 ... ianime.png
http://s1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa3 ... sedki2.png

Goku states that Gotenks' Ki was once 'up' ie drew his attention in the context and the only ones previously sensed from the Kaioshin realm were SSjin3 Goku and Evil (Super) Boo.

Yeah, that's it really.

To answer your question, Pure Evil Boo should be able to one shot SSjin2 Goku etc yet be one shotted by SSjin Gotenks(pre) and SSjin3 Goku but where you place SSjin Gotenks in relation to SSjin3 Goku is up to you really. They should be rivaling each other at least (slightly weaker/slightly stronger).

[Pantalones]

Piccolo: “Yo-you idiot! What are you saying?! You don’t know anything about Majin Boo’s fearsomeness! No matter how incredible you may be, at that level there’s still absolutely no way you’d be able to win!”

Piccolo referring to Gotenks' power as 'incredible' and talking about 'that level' is clearly referring back to how SSjin2's weren't able scratch Fat Boo imo.

...couldn't "at that level" be referring to the fact that he was in base form, rather than using any of the Super Saiyan levels? And if I remember right... wasn't this pretty much immediately followed by Gotenks rushing off to fight Buu in base form and coming back right afterward with the crap kicked out of him?

[Mystic Gohan]

I'm going to assume that by Evil Boo you mean Pure Evil Boo/Gray Boo, as otherwise this versus makes no sense.

Anyway I personally feel that Gotenks would beat both of them at once. SSjin Gotenks (Pre) was stated to be above SSjin 3 Goku by Son himself and it was never contradicted. Son being able to sense Gotenks from the Kaioshin Realm just confirms it.

Pure Evil Boo is only a fraction of Dai Kaioshin Boo, who SSjin 3 Goku had a noticeable edge on at the very least so he is complete fodder here.

Call me crazy, but i am starting to think that gray buu=kid buu. Good buu was supposed to have suppressed Super buu just a little bit i think. So then why can't Good buu be suppressing most of Kid buu's power in Fat buu? It only escapes when he is pissed.

[Super Vegetto]

Anyway, all we know for fact is that;

1. Base Gotenks (pre RoSaT) is suggested to be high SSjin2 tier;

Piccolo: “Yo-you idiot! What are you saying?! You don’t know anything about Majin Boo’s fearsomeness! No matter how incredible you may be, at that level there’s still absolutely no way you’d be able to win!”

Piccolo referring to Gotenks' power as 'incredible' and talking about 'that level' is clearly referring back to how SSjin2's weren't able scratch Fat Boo imo.

2. SSjin Gotenks (pre RoSaT) is suggested to be stronger than Fat Boo;

- Piccolo flat out stating Gotenks would definitely fight Boo one day after they failed in base.
- Piccolo doesn't express any doubt about Gotenks being strong enough to wipe Boo out(quite the opposite really). He just wanted to see his speed (which isn't directly related to power in many cases) and Gotenks proved that his speed was more than enough.
- Piccolo only doubts Gotenks' ability to beat Boo when he realized they only had 1 minute of fusion left (not power related at all).
- Gotenks defusing is shown to be a comical way for AT to continue the series (ie keep Boo alive) like when he also powered down/defused when he was about to finish off Evil(Super) Boo.

3. SSjin Gotenks (pre RoSaT) is suggested to be in SSjin3 Goku's power range;

http://s1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa3 ... ianime.png
http://s1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa3 ... sedki2.png

Goku states that Gotenks' Ki was once 'up' ie drew his attention in the context and the only ones previously sensed from the Kaioshin realm were SSjin3 Goku and Evil (Super) Boo.

Yeah, that's it really.

To answer your question, Pure Evil Boo should be able to one shot SSjin2 Goku etc yet be one shotted by SSjin Gotenks(pre) and SSjin3 Goku but where you place SSjin Gotenks in relation to SSjin3 Goku is up to you really. They should be rivaling each other at least (slightly weaker/slightly stronger).

I dont know man. Gokus statment of sencing ki means Mystic Gohan is way weaker cuz no one senced him beside Super buu. He probably can sence ki but that doesnt mean that Gotenks (pre) > Evil buu.

[FNF]

Anyway, all we know for fact is that;

1. Base Gotenks (pre RoSaT) is suggested to be high SSjin2 tier;

Piccolo: “Yo-you idiot! What are you saying?! You don’t know anything about Majin Boo’s fearsomeness! No matter how incredible you may be, at that level there’s still absolutely no way you’d be able to win!”

Piccolo referring to Gotenks' power as 'incredible' and talking about 'that level' is clearly referring back to how SSjin2's weren't able scratch Fat Boo imo.

2. SSjin Gotenks (pre RoSaT) is suggested to be stronger than Fat Boo;

- Piccolo flat out stating Gotenks would definitely fight Boo one day after they failed in base.
- Piccolo doesn't express any doubt about Gotenks being strong enough to wipe Boo out(quite the opposite really). He just wanted to see his speed (which isn't directly related to power in many cases) and Gotenks proved that his speed was more than enough.
- Piccolo only doubts Gotenks' ability to beat Boo when he realized they only had 1 minute of fusion left (not power related at all).
- Gotenks defusing is shown to be a comical way for AT to continue the series (ie keep Boo alive) like when he also powered down/defused when he was about to finish off Evil(Super) Boo.

3. SSjin Gotenks (pre RoSaT) is suggested to be in SSjin3 Goku's power range;

http://s1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa3 ... ianime.png
http://s1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa3 ... sedki2.png

Goku states that Gotenks' Ki was once 'up' ie drew his attention in the context and the only ones previously sensed from the Kaioshin realm were SSjin3 Goku and Evil (Super) Boo.

Yeah, that's it really.

To answer your question, Pure Evil Boo should be able to one shot SSjin2 Goku etc yet be one shotted by SSjin Gotenks(pre) and SSjin3 Goku but where you place SSjin Gotenks in relation to SSjin3 Goku is up to you really. They should be rivaling each other at least (slightly weaker/slightly stronger).

I dont know man. Gokus statment of sencing ki means Mystic Gohan is way weaker cuz no one senced him beside Super buu. He probably can sence ki but that doesnt mean that Gotenks (pre) > Evil buu.

Have you ever heard of PIS? Yeah, that's what happened when no-one noticed that Gohan 'wasn't' revived with the Dragonballs and when Gohan wasn't sensed by anyone apart from Evil (Super) Boo. It was all about leaving it open for Gohan to make his surprise entrance vs Boo.

Oh and FYI Fat Boo wasn't sensed from the Kaioshin realm (Goku suddenly being able to sense Evil (Super) Boo out of nowhere) so SSjin Gotenks should always be stronger than Fat Boo and by default Pure Evil Boo.

[FNF]

Piccolo: “Yo-you idiot! What are you saying?! You don’t know anything about Majin Boo’s fearsomeness! No matter how incredible you may be, at that level there’s still absolutely no way you’d be able to win!”

Piccolo referring to Gotenks' power as 'incredible' and talking about 'that level' is clearly referring back to how SSjin2's weren't able scratch Fat Boo imo.

...couldn't "at that level" be referring to the fact that he was in base form, rather than using any of the Super Saiyan levels? And if I remember right... wasn't this pretty much immediately followed by Gotenks rushing off to fight Buu in base form and coming back right afterward with the crap kicked out of him?

In the context imo he isn't referring to Gotenks' base form in comparison to a higher form. He seems to just describe how incredible he is as if he is talking about Gotenks' level of power in general.

...and yes that does follow. Prince of Destruction Vegeta was forced to dodge a small, generic Ki blast from Fat Boo after he had powered up so I don't see how base Gotenks being beaten up by Fat Boo means he isn't at SSjin2 level.