Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

I'm glad you've decided to ignore large parts of the manga. SSG was a clear major plot element at several points in the story, but let's just forget about that.

Well let's break down every appearance.

1. It put up a valiant effort against a suppressed Beerus that it was enough to save Earth. The only time it's been truly useful was naturally on it's debut.

2. It was used to overpower a suppressed Hit. Otherwise it was Super Saiyan Blue that actually won the fight.

3. It was used to cheap shot Trunks. Literally the only fight that the form has ever won.

4. It was used against Goku Black, sort of, he didn't actually fight him using it, he just used it to quickly turn into Super Saiyan Blue which did the fighting.

5. Goku used it against Zamasu, someone who isn't even all that strong apparently, and sealed him briefly. Didn't actually stop him at all though.

6. It was used on a suppressed Toppo. Otherwise again it was just used as a gateway to getting to Super Saiyan Blue so it didn't win that either.

7. As a bit of a bonus it was used in Super Dragon Ball Heroes where he also got the crap kicked out of him.

[Son-Kakaroto]

I'm glad you've decided to ignore large parts of the manga. SSG was a clear major plot element at several points in the story, but let's just forget about that.

Well let's break down every appearance.

1. It put up a valiant effort against a suppressed Beerus that it was enough to save Earth. The only time it's been truly useful was naturally on it's debut.

2. It was used to overpower a suppressed Hit. Otherwise it was Super Saiyan Blue that actually won the fight.

3. It was used to cheap shot Trunks. Literally the only fight that the form has ever won.

4. It was used against Goku Black, sort of, he didn't actually fight him using it, he just used it to quickly turn into Super Saiyan Blue which did the fighting.

5. Goku used it against Zamasu, someone who isn't even all that strong apparently, and sealed him briefly. Didn't actually stop him at all though.

6. It was used on a suppressed Toppo. Otherwise again it was just used as a gateway to getting to Super Saiyan Blue so it didn't win that either.

7. As a bit of a bonus it was used in Super Dragon Ball Heroes where he also got the crap kicked out of him.

It's fight against suppressed toppo and hit was still impressive, even if the significance was minimal.
2, It was actually ssj blue goku that sealed zamsu, not god. LOOL. P.S why did you say "apparently"? it should have been obvious kai zamsu is no where near god tier.
3. Why did you bring up that irrelevant trash that is db heroes? lool.

[Lord Beerus]

Summary for Chapter 42 is out.

Goku notes that #17 is just about as strong as him despite not doing much of anything (Implying that #17 never really trained)

[Marlowe89]

It was used to overpower a suppressed Hit.

It was used on a suppressed Toppo.

I wouldn't call Hit "suppressed" if his full power state strains his body to the point he can't use it for long. It's more like he overpowered Hit's default strength, which was already more formidable than anyone in Universe 6's team.

Toppo wasn't suppressed, and only knocked Blue Goku out of the ring because he caught him off-guard (according to Goku). Super Saiyan God is what forced Toppo to take the fight seriously, and Beerus explicitly said they were even while Goku used that form.

...why are we keeping a win-loss record again? That's never been a reliable measurement of anything in this series.

[shadd21]

Summary for the Chapter 42 is out.

Goku notes that #17 is just about as strong as him despite not doing much of anything (Imply #17 never really trained)

No wonder he’s still weaker than Beerus:crazy:

[Son-Kakaroto]

It was used to overpower a suppressed Hit.

It was used on a suppressed Toppo.

I wouldn't call Hit "suppressed" if his full power state strains his body to the point he can't use it for long. It's more like he overpowered Hit's default strength.

Toppo wasn't suppressed, and only knocked Blue Goku out of the ring because he caught him off-guard (according to Goku). Super Saiyan God is what forced Toppo to take the fight seriously, and Beerus explicitly said they were even while Goku used that form.

...why are we keeping a win-loss record again?

Toppo wasnt suppressed. Just because you are fighting well against an opponent does not mean you aren't suppressing your power, aka 1%(2.5%) frieza against base goku, or cell vs mssj goku. If toppo wasn't suppressed then he'd been stomp by mssj blue vegeta to which he fought at a stale mate (may I remind you mssj blue is 50x stronger then ssj god). You make very little sense.

[Marlowe89]

Toppo wasnt suppressed.

He wasn't. There's a difference between A. actively suppressing your power, B. using your default "serious" strength, and C. pushing yourself to the limit. SSG Goku forced Toppo to at least fight him on serious terms because that's what the dialogue says.

Toppo himself also says he would have lost to SSB Goku if he hadn't caught him off-guard.

(may I remind you mssj blue is 50x stronger then ssj god)

Negative. The manga specifically demonstrates that SSG is stronger than 10% of SSB's power during the U6 arc, then specifically states that the complete SSB uses a constant 100% of SSB's power in the FT arc. That's at most a ten times difference in strength, not fifty.

[Xeogran]

Summary for the Chapter 42 is out.

Goku notes that #17 is just about as strong as him despite not doing much of anything (Imply #17 never really trained)

So much for manga 17 being only SS3 level. I've been hearing this for the past months, and I never could agree with that statement.

[Son-Kakaroto]

Toppo wasnt suppressed.

He wasn't. There's a difference between A. actively suppressing your power, B. using your "serious" strength by default, and C. pushing yourself to the limit. SSG Goku forced Toppo to at least fight him on serious terms because that's what the dialogue says.

(may I remind you mssj blue is 50x stronger then ssj god)

Negative. The manga specifically states that SSG is stronger than 10% of SSB's power during the U6 arc, then specifically states that the complete SSB uses a constant 100% of SSB's power. That's at most a ten times difference, not fifty.

No, I meant he was! I don't know what the heck this "serious strength" is. You can be "activly surpressing" your power but still use "serious" strength. Aka Freeza on namek.

Wrong Whis says vegeta COULDN'T EVEN use 10% of his strength! Not that he was! So mssj blue is 50x ssj god. Ssj blue multiplier fluctuates since the form drains energy.

[Lukmendes]

As for Gohan, there's not really any time for him to get stronger in the anime and he's clearly stated to have only "regained his sense of battle" in the manga. He is basically said to not be any stronger than he was in the Buu arc, yet this is enough for him to take punches from SSB. Of course in the manga he's also said to grow stronger during the fight with Kefla, but that only explains so much (especially since he of course deflected her blast before the fight started and Piccolo already said he was a relevant fighter next to the best of them before they even entered the tournament).

Piccolo also says that Gohan is stronger than ever in the fight against Kefla because he somehow managed to grow while fighting... Bullshit explanation but yeah, he's above his Boo saga self, how much so is vague.

As pointed out before, it's also possible Kefla wasn't at full power, weird none of the characters pointed that out though, since DB likes to spoon feed info.

Negative. The manga specifically states that SSG is stronger than 10% of SSB's power during the U6 arc, then specifically states that the complete SSB uses a constant 100% of SSB's power in the FT arc. That's at most a ten times difference in strength, not fifty.

Actualy, Whis says that Vegeta couldn't use even 1/10 of his usual strength, so Blue's multiplier is still up in the air.

So much for manga 17 being only SS3 level. I've been hearing this for the past months, and I never could agree with that statement.

Well to be fair, 17 didn't do anything to show that he was above SS3 level during the tournament itself, can't blame people for thinking that, and Goku just saying 17 is that strong without him showing off is cheap too...

[PFM18]

Summary for the Chapter 42 is out.

Goku notes that #17 is just about as strong as him despite not doing much of anything (Imply #17 never really trained)

That's kind of dumb that 17 and Goku are the same power even though 17 was almost nonexistent for most of the tournament. And it's strange that they are the same power in the first place considering how far apart Goku and 17 were in the anime iteration.

[Xeogran]

So much for manga 17 being only SS3 level. I've been hearing this for the past months, and I never could agree with that statement.

Well to be fair, 17 didn't do anything to show that he was above SS3 level during the tournament itself, can't blame people for thinking that, and Goku just saying 17 is that strong without him showing off is cheap too...

I mean in his pre-ToP debut chapter, 17 was willing to continue fighting against SS3 Goku without further difficulties, even charging up a strong attack against him. People read it in a different way I suppose, but I always thought he's above that form.

[Bergamo]

Aside from stopping Beerus' attack all those are somewhat useless. Vegeta never really fought as a Super Saiyan God he just used it to quickly transform into Super Saiyan Blue which was being of any use.

Goku used it on Zamasu but he was said to be weaker than Trunks so Goku could have used Super Saiyan 3 or something.

And overpowering a non full power Hit isn't Impressive either.

Has Super Saiyan God ever beaten anybody in any version? Not overpowered but actually beat someone fully not including the cheap move he did on Trunks.

I'm glad you've decided to ignore large parts of the manga. SSG was a clear major plot element at several points in the story, but let's just forget about that.

Nice rebuttal there, mate...
The dude is right, ssj god most impressive feat was against berrus in bog arc (in the anime), and since then ssj god hasn't done anything special in terms of winning a fight by itself. However, it is still an impressive form in the manga and is involved in key plot points, even if it's not kicking the butt of the strongest dude on the show.

Bruh

SSG was actually the main form in the BoG arc rather than God-Absorbed SSJ1. This isn't a direct win, but SSG gets the feat of providing Beerus with a challenge and is able to stay relevant because it wasn't surpassed by the regular Super Saiyan forms.

SSG is treated as Goku's ace up the sleeve when he fights Hit. Without Goku's strategic use of this form he wouldn't have been able to create an opening for when he switched to Blue.

In the FT arc Vegeta uses SSG to beat Black. Yes, he switches between SSG and SSB, but this is a tactic that simply COULD NOT have been done without SSG. It's really arbitrary trying to argue which form deserves the credit for this fight. SSG Goku and Vegeta vs Zamas and Black was meant to be a last Hurrah for SSG before Blue was completed and became Goku's only main form.

Now compare this to the anime where SSG was forgot about for something like 80 episodes until it magically appeared again even though that makes no sense because SS1 is said to be greater than SSG.

[Marlowe89]

Wrong Whis says vegeta COULDN'T EVEN use 10% of his strength! Not that he was! So mssj blue is 50x ssj god. Ssj blue multiplier fluctuates since the form drains energy.

He wouldn't have brought up that figure if it was considerably less than 10%, otherwise he would have just said something like 5% or 1%. The point of these values is to illustrate roughly how much of a gap they were working with.

There's no official multiplier for God or Blue; at best, they're speculative territory right now. Fifty times is still way too much in the manga based on what we currently know.

[Lukmendes]

That's kind of dumb that 17 and Goku are the same power even though 17 was almost nonexistent for most of the tournament. And it's strange that they are the same power in the first place considering how far apart Goku and 17 were in the anime iteration.

Yeah, him having no feats to back it up just makes the statement feel empty...

I mean in his pre-ToP debut chapter, 17 was willing to continue fighting against SS3 Goku without further difficulties, even charging up a strong attack against him. People read it in a different way I suppose, but I always thought he's above that form.

Well yeah, he handled the fight well, but neither him or Goku were really hurt during it, if anything Goku seemed to be the less serious one during the fight, so it's a moot point about whether or not 17 really was above SS3 Goku.

[Bergamo]

Wrong Whis says vegeta COULDN'T EVEN use 10% of his strength! Not that he was! So mssj blue is 50x ssj god. Ssj blue multiplier fluctuates since the form drains energy.

He wouldn't have brought up that figure if it was considerably less than 10%, otherwise he would have just said something like 5% or 1%. The point of these values is to illustrate roughly how much of a gap they were working with.

There's no official multiplier for God or Blue; at best, they're speculative territory right now. Fifty times is still way too much in the manga based on what we currently know.

I can't believe people still perpetuate the narrative that these 50-2-4 multipliers are objective fact when they don't even hold up within the story.

Base Goku>Yakon(800 kili) as shown by their fight and by Gohan's statement

SS Goku has a power of 3000 kili

This would put the SS1 multiplier at around 3.75 times rather than 50.

[Lord Beerus]

Wrong Whis says vegeta COULDN'T EVEN use 10% of his strength! Not that he was! So mssj blue is 50x ssj god. Ssj blue multiplier fluctuates since the form drains energy.

He wouldn't have brought up that figure if it was considerably less than 10%, otherwise he would have just said something like 5% or 1%. The point of these values is to illustrate roughly how much of a gap they were working with.

There's no official multiplier for God or Blue; at best, they're speculative territory right now. Fifty times is still way too much in the manga based on what we currently know.

I can't believe people still perpetuate the narrative that these 50-2-4 multipliers are objective fact when they don't even hold up within the story.

Base Goku>Yakon(800 kili) as shown by their fight and by Gohan's statement

SS Goku has a power of 3000 kili

This would put the SS1 multiplier at around 3.75 times rather than 50.

We're not allowed to bring that up. It would ruin so many battle power calculations for several people.

[Doctor.]

We don't bring it up because there's no proof base Goku is anywhere close to Yakon. If he was, he would have no need to transform in the first place.

[Son-Kakaroto]

I'm glad you've decided to ignore large parts of the manga. SSG was a clear major plot element at several points in the story, but let's just forget about that.

Nice rebuttal there, mate...
The dude is right, ssj god most impressive feat was against berrus in bog arc (in the anime), and since then ssj god hasn't done anything special in terms of winning a fight by itself. However, it is still an impressive form in the manga and is involved in key plot points, even if it's not kicking the butt of the strongest dude on the show.

Bruh

SSG was actually the main form in the BoG arc rather than God-Absorbed SSJ1. This isn't a direct win, but SSG gets the feat of providing Beerus with a challenge and is able to stay relevant because it wasn't surpassed by the regular Super Saiyan forms.

SSG is treated as Goku's ace up the sleeve when he fights Hit. Without Goku's strategic use of this form he wouldn't have been able to create an opening for when he switched to Blue.

In the FT arc Vegeta uses SSG to beat Black. Yes, he switches between SSG and SSB, but this is a tactic that simply COULD NOT have been done without SSG. It's really arbitrary trying to argue which form deserves the credit for this fight. SSG Goku and Vegeta vs Zamas and Black was meant to be a last Hurrah for SSG before Blue was completed and became Goku's only main form.

Now compare this to the anime where SSG was forgot about for something like 80 episodes until it magically appeared again even though that makes no sense because SS1 is said to be greater than SSG.

Relax on your anime derangement syndrome. Just because I am not praising the manga does not mean I am secretly trying to hype up the anime. I never brought up the anime use of ssj god compared to the manga's. I just stated the importance of ssj god in the manga, while admitting that the best showing of ssj god in general happened in the tv show. Nuff said.

[Lord Beerus]

We don't bring it up because there's no proof base Goku is anywhere close to Yakon. If he was, he would have no need to transform in the first place.

Yakon couldn't lay a finger on Goku, even when the area that they were fighting in turned dark and Yakon was supposed to have the advantage. Hell, Goku kicks Yakon square in the fucking face -- while it's dark -- and it staggers and shocks Yakon.

The only reason Goku turns SSJ was to show how easy it would have been for Goku to negate the "advantage" that Yakon had and turn a dark area into one that had light.