The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[dragon boss z]

I recommend you not to use the Daizenshuu numbers, they contradict a lot with the manga statements, such as 23rd Tien being weaker than King Piccolo, or BOZ Yamcha being weaker than 22nd Goku. They just don't make sense.

Tien said he thought he could never match Goku's strenght so he trained speed. And Burter is a good example of having a high speed stat. Not everyoen has the same stats. Also Tien is a much better fighter than King Piccolo. He would beat King Piccolo, but that doesn't mean he could blow a city away like King Piccolo. And I don't think their is anything suggesting BOZ Yamcha is stronger than 22nd Goku.
You are right, the numbers could be wrong, but I haven't see anything prove them wrong yet.

[Gog]

But here's the thing. Coola was as strong as base form Goku, the movie literally confirms this notion. Hell in the Japanese version Goku's apparently as strong as Freeza. But eh, it really doesn't matter in the end as Freeza explodes from the massive Kaio Ken.

I don't re-watch the movies very much, so my memory of them is pretty spotty, but from my point-of-view, Coola never quite gave it his all in his base form. We never see him power up and get all muscly like Freeza was at 100%. He probably thought Freeza got careless and got knocked off at a lower form or low percentage of his power. Then when Coola sees Goku transform, it's like a light bulb goes off. "Oh so that's how he did it! That makes more sense."

That or Toei can't power scale to save their lives.

No, Coola literally stated in the Japanese version that he could see how Goku had beaten his little brother, while Goku was in his base form, implying that Goku is now as strong as finial form Freeza in his base form. Toei is incapable of power scaling. Also Coola never actually once bothered to move around in his apparent suppression forms. Implying that he has mastered the finial form, ROF style.

I'd put the multiplier around 4x or 8x

[dragon boss z]

But here's the thing. Coola was as strong as base form Goku, the movie literally confirms this notion. Hell in the Japanese version Goku's apparently as strong as Freeza. But eh, it really doesn't matter in the end as Freeza explodes from the massive Kaio Ken.

I don't re-watch the movies very much, so my memory of them is pretty spotty, but from my point-of-view, Coola never quite gave it his all in his base form. We never see him power up and get all muscly like Freeza was at 100%. He probably thought Freeza got careless and got knocked off at a lower form or low percentage of his power. Then when Coola sees Goku transform, it's like a light bulb goes off. "Oh so that's how he did it! That makes more sense."

That or Toei can't power scale to save their lives.

No, Coola literally stated in the Japanese version that he could see how Goku had beaten his little brother, while Goku was in his base form, implying that Goku is now as strong as finial form Freeza in his base form. Toei is incapable of power scaling. Also Coola never actually once bothered to move around in his apparent suppression forms. Implying that he has mastered the finial form, ROF style.

I'd put the multiplier around 4x or 8x

Frieza is usually in his fisrt form. This could just mean he could see how Goku beat first form Frieza.

[dragonball0900]

I recommend you not to use the Daizenshuu numbers, they contradict a lot with the manga statements, such as 23rd Tien being weaker than King Piccolo, or BOZ Yamcha being weaker than 22nd Goku. They just don't make sense.

Tien said he thought he could never match Goku's strenght so he trained speed. And Burter is a good example of having a high speed stat. Not everyoen has the same stats. Also Tien is a much better fighter than King Piccolo. He would beat King Piccolo, but that doesn't mean he could blow a city away like King Piccolo. And I don't think their is anything suggesting BOZ Yamcha is stronger than 22nd Goku.
You are right, the numbers could be wrong, but I haven't see anything prove them wrong yet.

He never said he would never match Goku's strenght from the King Piccolo arc, saying that he only trained more speed than strenght is pure speculation, since I doubt Tien wouldn't be able to get even more stronger as well as his speed. Burter is a special case since that's his special attribute and capacity. Not everyone has to be like him. Also, why can't Tien blow a city? It is possible for him to do it by the time of the 23rd Budokai.

BOZ Yamcha IS stronger than 22nd Goku.

1, Yamcha at the 23rd Budokai is able to see Weighted Goku's speed, and that speed was equal to Young King Piccolo. 22nd Goku was losing dreadfully to Old King Piccolo, who is stated to be much weaker than Young King Piccolo.

2, Cyborg Tao is supposed to be stronger than 22nd Goku and 22nd Tien, since Tsuru saw Tien's strenght and was confident that Tao would defeat Tien. And 23rd Yamcha could see Tien's movements against Tao, yet Tao couldn't.

23rd Yamcha and BOZ Yamcha are not that far apart. It is obvious to see who is the winner between Yamcha and 22nd Goku.

[dragon boss z]

Dabra VS. Frost.
Dabra's spit is allowed.
Frost begins in First Form.

Dabura wins since he probably wont let Frost transform.

[Gog]

I don't re-watch the movies very much, so my memory of them is pretty spotty, but from my point-of-view, Coola never quite gave it his all in his base form. We never see him power up and get all muscly like Freeza was at 100%. He probably thought Freeza got careless and got knocked off at a lower form or low percentage of his power. Then when Coola sees Goku transform, it's like a light bulb goes off. "Oh so that's how he did it! That makes more sense."

That or Toei can't power scale to save their lives.

No, Coola literally stated in the Japanese version that he could see how Goku had beaten his little brother, while Goku was in his base form, implying that Goku is now as strong as finial form Freeza in his base form. Toei is incapable of power scaling. Also Coola never actually once bothered to move around in his apparent suppression forms. Implying that he has mastered the finial form, ROF style.

I'd put the multiplier around 4x or 8x

Frieza is usually in his first form. This could just mean he could see how Goku beat first form Frieza.

So are you implying that Coola isn't even as strong as first form Freeza? That Goku isn't even as strong as first form Freeza? He absolutely had to be referring to finial form Freeza, otherwise it just doesn't work.

[TheUltimateNinja]

No, Coola literally stated in the Japanese version that he could see how Goku had beaten his little brother, while Goku was in his base form, implying that Goku is now as strong as finial form Freeza in his base form. Toei is incapable of power scaling. Also Coola never actually once bothered to move around in his apparent suppression forms. Implying that he has mastered the finial form, ROF style.

I'd put the multiplier around 4x or 8x

Frieza is usually in his first form. This could just mean he could see how Goku beat first form Frieza.

So are you implying that Coola isn't even as strong as first form Freeza? That Goku isn't even as strong as first form Freeza? He absolutely had to be referring to finial form Freeza, otherwise it just doesn't work.

Also, it would utterly ridiculous considering the whole narrative until that point was Cooler trying to find the Super Saiyan who defeated his family, if he was just looking for some guy stronger than First Form Frieza all along it would be hilariously nonsensical, the mighty Super Saiyan with a power level of 600,000.

[dragonball0900]

I have a match:

Supreme Kai vs Cell Games Goku

[dragon boss z]

No, Coola literally stated in the Japanese version that he could see how Goku had beaten his little brother, while Goku was in his base form, implying that Goku is now as strong as finial form Freeza in his base form. Toei is incapable of power scaling. Also Coola never actually once bothered to move around in his apparent suppression forms. Implying that he has mastered the finial form, ROF style.

I'd put the multiplier around 4x or 8x

Frieza is usually in his first form. This could just mean he could see how Goku beat first form Frieza.

So are you implying that Coola isn't even as strong as first form Freeza? That Goku isn't even as strong as first form Freeza? He absolutely had to be referring to finial form Freeza, otherwise it just doesn't work.

Your not making sense. Cooler said he could see how base Goku could win. That means first form Frieza<<<Goku<=>Cooler

[dragon boss z]

Also, it would utterly ridiculous considering the whole narrative until that point was Cooler trying to find the Super Saiyan who defeated his family, if he was just looking for some guy stronger than First Form Frieza all along it would be hilariously nonsensical, the mighty Super Saiyan with a power level of 600,000.

I was just pointint out how Cooelr saying "I can see how you beat Frieza" doesn't put base Goku above 100% Frieza. Cooler could of meant 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or suppressed final form Frieza. It is pretty clear base Goku without kaioken wouldn't even stand a chance against 100% Frieza.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Also, it would utterly ridiculous considering the whole narrative until that point was Cooler trying to find the Super Saiyan who defeated his family, if he was just looking for some guy stronger than First Form Frieza all along it would be hilariously nonsensical, the mighty Super Saiyan with a power level of 600,000.

I was just pointint out how Cooelr saying "I can see how you beat Frieza" doesn't put base Goku above 100% Frieza. Cooler could of meant 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or suppressed final form Frieza. It is pretty clear base Goku without kaioken wouldn't even stand a chance against 100% Frieza.

Goku was using Kaioken against Cooler, though. It was just invisible like his x10 Kaioken against Frieza. Also, he'd just gotten a massive Zenkai. Earlier Cooler's armored squadron was giving him some trouble, but post-Zenkai he tanked Salza's punch to the face without even noticing it.

[Gog]

Frieza is usually in his first form. This could just mean he could see how Goku beat first form Frieza.

So are you implying that Coola isn't even as strong as first form Freeza? That Goku isn't even as strong as first form Freeza? He absolutely had to be referring to finial form Freeza, otherwise it just doesn't work.

Your not making sense. Cooler said he could see how base Goku could win. That means first form Frieza<<<Goku<=>Cooler

So Goku and Coola both have powerlevels of 600 thousand? The makes even less sense then what I've been stating.

[dragon boss z]

Also, it would utterly ridiculous considering the whole narrative until that point was Cooler trying to find the Super Saiyan who defeated his family, if he was just looking for some guy stronger than First Form Frieza all along it would be hilariously nonsensical, the mighty Super Saiyan with a power level of 600,000.

I was just pointint out how Cooelr saying "I can see how you beat Frieza" doesn't put base Goku above 100% Frieza. Cooler could of meant 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or suppressed final form Frieza. It is pretty clear base Goku without kaioken wouldn't even stand a chance against 100% Frieza.

Goku was using Kaioken against Cooler, though. It was just invisible like his x10 Kaioken against Frieza. Also, he'd just gotten a massive Zenkai. Earlier Cooler's armored squadron was giving him some trouble, but post-Zenkai he tanked Salza's punch to the face without even noticing it.

Well if you are counting kaioken then you can make an argument with that. I just meant plane base Goku is definitely below Frieza. And still saying Goku could beat Frieza doesn't mean full power Frieza. Frieza didn't go full power until he was desperate so it would be completely believable Cooler though Frieza was taken down while suppressed. Also when Frieza transforms Goku says his ki is bigger than Frieza's, which means Frieza's max power was above Cooler before transforming.

[dragon boss z]

So are you implying that Coola isn't even as strong as first form Freeza? That Goku isn't even as strong as first form Freeza? He absolutely had to be referring to finial form Freeza, otherwise it just doesn't work.

Your not making sense. Cooler said he could see how base Goku could win. That means first form Frieza<<<Goku<=>Cooler

So Goku and Coola both have powerlevels of 600 thousand? The makes even less sense then what I've been stating.

I'm not sure if you have problems comprehending things or just like to make up arguments or if you are purposely using a strawman argument. I never said Goku and Cooler had power levels of 600 thousand. All I said is base Goku is stronger than first form Frieza but weaker than 100% Frieza. So I'm saying his base is less than 120 million, not sure where the heck you got 600,000 from.
If I had to give them numbers it would be like this.

base Goku: 4 mil
base Cooler: 4 mil
final form Cooler: 140-160 mil
ssj Goku: 200 mil

[Gog]

I'm not sure if you have problems comprehending things or just like to make up arguments or if you are purposely using a strawman argument. I never said Goku and Cooler had power levels of 600 thousand. All I said is base Goku is stronger than first form Frieza but weaker than 100% Frieza. So I'm saying his base is less than 120 million, not sure where the heck you got 600,000 from.
If I had to give them numbers it would be like this.

base Goku: 4 mil
base Cooler: 4 mil
final form Cooler: 140-160 mil
ssj Goku: 200 mil

Oh, wow thanks for the insults. I never was making any straw-man arguments as I don't actually believe that Coola and Goku have power-levels of six hundred thousand. No but the statement that Coola was referring to Freeza's first form is just baffling, as Coola was implied to be as strong as Freeza in the Japanese sub and that he can see how Goku was capable of beating his brother, implies that in the movie not only was Coola going all out, but so was Goku. So stating that he must have been referring to first form Freeza is just plain wrong.

[The gr]

Goku ssj1 Buu saga vs super perfect cell

final form frieza ROF vs assault form frost

[dragon boss z]

I'm not sure if you have problems comprehending things or just like to make up arguments or if you are purposely using a strawman argument. I never said Goku and Cooler had power levels of 600 thousand. All I said is base Goku is stronger than first form Frieza but weaker than 100% Frieza. So I'm saying his base is less than 120 million, not sure where the heck you got 600,000 from.
If I had to give them numbers it would be like this.

base Goku: 4 mil
base Cooler: 4 mil
final form Cooler: 140-160 mil
ssj Goku: 200 mil

Oh, wow thanks for the insults. I never was making any straw-man arguments as I don't actually believe that Coola and Goku have power-levels of six hundred thousand. No but the statement that Coola was referring to Freeza's first form is just baffling, as Coola was implied to be as strong as Freeza in the Japanese sub and that he can see how Goku was capable of beating his brother, implies that in the movie not only was Coola going all out, but so was Goku. So stating that he must have been referring to first form Freeza is just plain wrong.

It seems you don't know what a strawman argument is. A straw man argument is when you change your opponents argument so it is easier to beat. And I don't mean to insult you but it gets annoying when you clearly aren't reading my comment correctly and reply the same thing twice even though I already debunked it.

And I don't don't know why him referring to Frieza's first form doesn't make sense, since both Goku and Cooler are above first form Frieza, it doesn't matter how much stronger they are. All he said was "I see how you could beat Frieza". And what that means is Goku's power is enough to where it makes sense he won. And it would make sense for someone to beat Frieza before he transforms. It doesn't meant he is only a little stronger. If Cooler said that Goku's power was enough to just barely win, then you would be right.

Here is a good example that disproves your argument. In dragon ball Super Beerus said Frieza is the best opponent ssj Goku could beat. That doesn't mean BoG saga ssj Goku is still only at a power level of 150 million. All it means is he is stronger than Frieza.

[dragon boss z]

Goku ssj1 Buu saga vs super perfect cell

final form frieza ROF vs assault form frost

Super perfect Cell wins.

Frieza wins in his first form imo. It is hard to judge the universe 6 fighter's strength in the anime so I go by the manga, and in that final form Frost seems to be around Cell level, while assault form Frost would be around final form Frieza level. And I have RoF first form Frieza around Cell level, and final form RoF Frieza at around Vegitto tier.

[The gr]

Goku ssj1 Buu saga vs super perfect cell

final form frieza ROF vs assault form frost

Super perfect Cell wins.

Frieza wins in his first form imo. It is hard to judge the universe 6 fighter's strength in the anime so I go by the manga, and in that final form Frost seems to be around Cell level, while assault form Frost would be around final form Frieza level. And I have RoF first form Frieza around Cell level, and final form RoF Frieza at around Vegitto tier.

I'm confused I though assault form frost is stronger than base goku a base goku is on par with final form frieza in rof

[Doctor.]

Kicker Basil (powered-up form) vs Majin Vegeta (Super Saiyan 2)

It begins.