The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[dragon boss z]

Your examples don't really accomplish anything. There's a big differencie between the Android 18 example, and the ones that you are mentioning. In your examples, they were scared about the damage, as you said, but Android 18 was clearly scared about the power, it's downright stated in the scan you posted, she said the kids have destructive power, and even said that they were not playing around, when in fact the kids were indeed playing since the blast was suppressed. It's like in the Cell Games when Gohan thought Goku was toying with Cell during their battle when actually Goku was going all out, indicating Gohan was stronger than Goku.
Again, the ki blast was very suppressed, and Android 18 was really surprised to see how the kids were so ridiculously strong. There is a lot of proof that they were above her by just seeing that part.

Also, as I said before, the kids were able to rivalize the likes of Gohan and Vegeta, sure they are below them, but they still managed feats that not even Android 16 or Imperfect Cell would do, such as being able to rivalize Gohan who is way way stronger than Android 18.

Just because 18 was shocked from their power doesn't mean they are stronger though. Roshi was shocked at kid Goku's power, but Roshi was still leagues above him if he got serious. And in the anime ssj Goten and Trunks teemed up on 18 for a while and she held them back, which pretty much means the writers of the anime also must of thought 18 was at least stronger than them individually, and the funimation dub had 18 say she was scared for the audience.

Tbh there is proof both ways. But if they did surpass 18 I would say it's more likely they did it after their ROSAT training.

[DanielSSJ]

Just because 18 was shocked from their power doesn't mean they are stronger though. Roshi was shocked at kid Goku's power, but Roshi was still leagues above him if he got serious. And in the anime ssj Goten and Trunks teemed up on 18 for a while and she held them back, which pretty much means the writers of the anime also must of thought 18 was at least stronger than them individually, and the funimation dub had 18 say she was scared for the audience.

Tbh there is proof both ways. But if they did surpass 18 I would say it's more likely they did it after their ROSAT training.

Muten Roshi didn't dodge a suppressed Ki bast from Goku and say that it would be dangerous to continue fighting for much longer. Also, the anime apparently thinks that Mr. Popo is stronger than Super Saiyan Goten and Trunks. Make of that what you will. (Insert obligatory TFS reference here) And Funimation-only dialogue should not be used as evidence for power comparisons.

[Steven Bloodriver]

Just because 18 was shocked from their power doesn't mean they are stronger though. Roshi was shocked at kid Goku's power, but Roshi was still leagues above him if he got serious. And in the anime ssj Goten and Trunks teemed up on 18 for a while and she held them back, which pretty much means the writers of the anime also must of thought 18 was at least stronger than them individually, and the funimation dub had 18 say she was scared for the audience.

Tbh there is proof both ways. But if they did surpass 18 I would say it's more likely they did it after their ROSAT training.

Muten Roshi didn't dodge a suppressed Ki bast from Goku and say that it would be dangerous to continue fighting for much longer. Also, the anime apparently thinks that Mr. Popo is stronger than Super Saiyan Goten and Trunks. Make of that what you will. (Insert obligatory TFS reference here) And Funimation-only dialogue should not be used as evidence for power comparisons.

1) Goku Black vs. Abeloth. (Both at equal power.)

2) Super Saiyan Goku Black vs. Madara Uchiha. (Both at equal power and being chased by the Omni-King.)

3) Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black vs. Saitama. (Both at equal power, on Venus, and being chased by the Omni-King.)

4) Merged Zamasu vs. Hakaishin Beerus, Golden Frieza, Hakaishin Champa, Super Saiyan Blue Copy-Vegeta, and Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta (Future Trunks Saga).

[dragon boss z]

Muten Roshi didn't dodge a suppressed Ki bast from Goku and say that it would be dangerous to continue fighting for much longer. Also, the anime apparently thinks that Mr. Popo is stronger than Super Saiyan Goten and Trunks. Make of that what you will. (Insert obligatory TFS reference here) And Funimation-only dialogue should not be used as evidence for power comparisons.

18 never said it was dangerous for her though. And she seemed pretty confident she could end it. She flat out said she was going to win right after that attack. So at the very least she should be above their suppressed level that she saw.

And I know the anime and funimation shouldn't be used, but I was just showing how the people who are in charge of the anime and the dub interpreted a certain way. If it really was as clear as you are saying that Goten and Trunks were above 18 that wouldn't of ever made it through.

1) Goku Black vs. Abeloth. (Both at equal power.)

2) Super Saiyan Goku Black vs. Madara Uchiha. (Both at equal power and being chased by the Omni-King.)

3) Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black vs. Saitama. (Both at equal power, on Venus, and being chased by the Omni-King.)

4) Merged Zamasu vs. Hakaishin Beerus, Golden Frieza, Hakaishin Champa, Super Saiyan Blue Copy-Vegeta, and Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta (Future Trunks Saga).

1. If you mean Abeloth from Star Wars, probably Black, though I don't know much about Abeloth

2. Probably Madara since their powers are equailized. But if their powers are equalized what's the point of giving Black ssj? lol

3. Again if you equalize their powers there really isn't much point of giving Black SSR but Black should easily win since Saitama has no specail powers. His only power is being strong. With strength equalized he is just a guy who kin dof knows how to fight.

4. Beerus or Champa solos

[DanielSSJ]

18 never said it was dangerous for her though. And she seemed pretty confident she could end it. She flat out said she was going to win right after that attack. So at the very least she should be above their suppressed level that she saw.

And I know the anime and funimation shouldn't be used, but I was just showing how the people who are in charge of the anime and the dub interpreted a certain way. If it really was as clear as you are saying that Goten and Trunks were above 18 that wouldn't of ever made it through.

And No. 18's method of victory was to chuck a Kienzan at them, cutting their disguise in half and getting them disqualified. She didn't overpower them or anything.

And given some of Funimation's other "interpretations" back in the day, I'll take their original dialogue with a grain of salt.

[TheUltimateNinja]

18 never said it was dangerous for her though. And she seemed pretty confident she could end it. She flat out said she was going to win right after that attack. So at the very least she should be above their suppressed level that she saw.

And I know the anime and funimation shouldn't be used, but I was just showing how the people who are in charge of the anime and the dub interpreted a certain way. If it really was as clear as you are saying that Goten and Trunks were above 18 that wouldn't of ever made it through.

And No. 18's method of victory was to chuck a Kienzan at them, cutting their disguise in half and getting them disqualified. She didn't overpower them or anything.

And given some of Funimation's other "interpretations" back in the day, I'll take their original dialogue with a grain of salt.

And if they're even weaker than 18, why would Piccolo consider them the last hope for Earth?

[dragon boss z]

And No. 18's method of victory was to chuck a Kienzan at them, cutting their disguise in half and getting them disqualified. She didn't overpower them or anything.

And given some of Funimation's other "interpretations" back in the day, I'll take their original dialogue with a grain of salt.[/quote]

Well 18 never said she thought she could lose. And she wouldn't know for sure if they would get disqualified. I do agree funimation's interpretations could be off. Including Toei's interpratiations, I'm just saying this isn't black and white. There are arguments on both sides.

And if they're even weaker than 18, why would Piccolo consider them the last hope for Earth?

Because 18 can't really get any stronger, while Goten and Trunks are just tapping into their potential. If they went into the ROSAT for two years and both came out ssj2, then together they could have a chance against Buu. At the very least they would be stronger than everyone else, which would make them Earth's last hope. Notice Piccolo never thought it was a good chance to begin with. So he just thinks they have the potential to be the strongest on Earth. It doesn't mean they are currently the strongest.

[DBZAOTA482]

Yeahhhhh..
No
It's just opinion then. You're not going to get me to change my opinion. Dismissing others' opinions or preferences while saying yours are better won't get them to agree with you

Obviously, it is an opinion but that doesn't mean I can't disagree with it.

I can see why he'd feel that way, I myself have a hard time believing Chichi surpassed Old Piccolo on her own with only Gyumao's training while Goku needed to go through far more hardship to accomplish this.

All Goku needed to do was drink water and then boom, he was even stronger than Piccolo Daimao. I said earlier she was equal to Old Daimao but her greater fighting skills give her an edge.

And besides, the gap between her first appearance and the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai is 7 years. That's more than enough to learn the basics, go through the Turtle School training, and then do her own thing.

Your examples don't really accomplish anything. There's a big differencie between the Android 18 example, and the ones that you are mentioning. In your examples, they were scared about the damage, as you said, but Android 18 was clearly scared about the power, it's downright stated in the scan you posted, she said the kids have destructive power, and even said that they were not playing around, when in fact the kids were indeed playing since the blast was suppressed. It's like in the Cell Games when Gohan thought Goku was toying with Cell during their battle when actually Goku was going all out, indicating Gohan was stronger than Goku.
Again, the ki blast was very suppressed, and Android 18 was really surprised to see how the kids were so ridiculously strong. There is a lot of proof that they were above her by just seeing that part.

Also, as I said before, the kids were able to rivalize the likes of Gohan and Vegeta, sure they are below them, but they still managed feats that not even Android 16 or Imperfect Cell would do, such as being able to rivalize Gohan who is way way stronger than Android 18.

Just because 18 was shocked from their power doesn't mean they are stronger though. Roshi was shocked at kid Goku's power, but Roshi was still leagues above him if he got serious. And in the anime ssj Goten and Trunks teemed up on 18 for a while and she held them back, which pretty much means the writers of the anime also must of thought 18 was at least stronger than them individually, and the funimation dub had 18 say she was scared for the audience.

Tbh there is proof both ways. But if they did surpass 18 I would say it's more likely they did it after their ROSAT training.

I'm pretty sure even the FUNimation dub had her scared for her safety.

[dragonball0900]

Just because 18 was shocked from their power doesn't mean they are stronger though. Roshi was shocked at kid Goku's power, but Roshi was still leagues above him if he got serious. And in the anime ssj Goten and Trunks teemed up on 18 for a while and she held them back, which pretty much means the writers of the anime also must of thought 18 was at least stronger than them individually, and the funimation dub had 18 say she was scared for the audience.

Tbh there is proof both ways. But if they did surpass 18 I would say it's more likely they did it after their ROSAT training.

The anime is clearly wrong on that part. They also made a movie (the one with Bio Broly) where they showed Goten and Trunks being able to damage an opponent that stomped Android 18. That part of their fight between SSJ Trunks and Goten vs Android 18 was filler and was not in the manga, it's like how it was showed the Ginyu Force vs Yamcha, Tien and Chiaotzu, fillers that contradict power scalling. And the funimation dub is something we shouldn't trust at all.

18 never said it was dangerous for her though. And she seemed pretty confident she could end it. She flat out said she was going to win right after that attack. So at the very least she should be above their suppressed level that she saw.

And I know the anime and funimation shouldn't be used, but I was just showing how the people who are in charge of the anime and the dub interpreted a certain way. If it really was as clear as you are saying that Goten and Trunks were above 18 that wouldn't of ever made it through.

If Android 18 was confident she could finish the battle by winning, then why she decided to cut through half the disguise of Mighty Mask? She knew that was the only option, she could've easily continue the match if she was stronger than them, but she didn't continue it. She was saying how much power it has the attack.

Well 18 never said she thought she could lose. And she wouldn't know for sure if they would get disqualified. I do agree funimation's interpretations could be off. Including Toei's interpratiations, I'm just saying this isn't black and white. There are arguments on both sides.

She did know they would get disqualified since she was present when the kids weren't allowed to participate. If she thought she wouldn't lose then there would be no reason why she decided to cut the Mighty Mask disguise. Android 18 clearly shows inferiority against SSJ Trunks and Goten. Specially since the ki blast was suppressed and made Android 18 surprised.

Because 18 can't really get any stronger, while Goten and Trunks are just tapping into their potential. If they went into the ROSAT for two years and both came out ssj2, then together they could have a chance against Buu. At the very least they would be stronger than everyone else, which would make them Earth's last hope. Notice Piccolo never thought it was a good chance to begin with. So he just thinks they have the potential to be the strongest on Earth. It doesn't mean they are currently the strongest.

Well I might agree here, since I also have some doubts that the kids are above Piccolo. I always interpreted Piccolo's line of the kids as the last hope of Earth being more to the potential they had as saiyans. Although maybe it is possible that they indeed surpassed Piccolo, that's something I don't really know, but they are clearly above Android 18 for sure. But just an important detail, the kids were able to surprise Piccolo a bit, while Goku was there like nothing. That would imply that the kids are near Piccolo's power, we don't know if above or below, but they are around his power, since the kids were able to surprise Piccolo, but not as much as Android 18.

We also need to keep in mind that the kids were able to fight against Gohan and Vegeta, making feats that Android 18 and even Android 16 wouldn't be able to do. We just shouldn't underestimate the kids just because they are recently just kids. The story is telling us that they are stronger than what many people think.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Obviously, it is an opinion but that doesn't mean I can't disagree with it.

I can see why he'd feel that way, I myself have a hard time believing Chichi surpassed Old Piccolo on her own with only Gyumao's training while Goku needed to go through far more hardship to accomplish this.

All Goku needed to do was drink water and then boom, he was even stronger than Piccolo Daimao. I said earlier she was equal to Old Daimao but her greater fighting skills give her an edge.

And besides, the gap between her first appearance and the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai is 7 years. That's more than enough to learn the basics, go through the Turtle School training, and then do her own thing.

You're forgetting the 3 years and 8 months of training he had to do before that. He also had to scale the Karin Tower twice, and the water had an incredibly potent toxin that killed every person who drank it before him and put him in unbearable agony for 6 hours.

If anybody can surpass Piccolo so easily, why did Mutaito and co. waste their lives when they could just "do their own thing" for 2 or 3 years and then stomp him?

Why did Roshi waste his time scaling Karin tower and then spend 3 years trying to get the water when he could obtain much greater power through basic training?

[dragon boss z]

Obviously, it is an opinion but that doesn't mean I can't disagree with it.

I can see why he'd feel that way, I myself have a hard time believing Chichi surpassed Old Piccolo on her own with only Gyumao's training while Goku needed to go through far more hardship to accomplish this.

All Goku needed to do was drink water and then boom, he was even stronger than Piccolo Daimao. I said earlier she was equal to Old Daimao but her greater fighting skills give her an edge.

And besides, the gap between her first appearance and the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai is 7 years. That's more than enough to learn the basics, go through the Turtle School training, and then do her own thing.

Are people actually arguing Chi-chi vs King Piccolo? King Piccolo casually one shots her. It's someoen who is city level vs someoen who isn't even small building level.

Your examples don't really accomplish anything. There's a big differencie between the Android 18 example, and the ones that you are mentioning. In your examples, they were scared about the damage, as you said, but Android 18 was clearly scared about the power, it's downright stated in the scan you posted, she said the kids have destructive power, and even said that they were not playing around, when in fact the kids were indeed playing since the blast was suppressed. It's like in the Cell Games when Gohan thought Goku was toying with Cell during their battle when actually Goku was going all out, indicating Gohan was stronger than Goku.
Again, the ki blast was very suppressed, and Android 18 was really surprised to see how the kids were so ridiculously strong. There is a lot of proof that they were above her by just seeing that part.

Also, as I said before, the kids were able to rivalize the likes of Gohan and Vegeta, sure they are below them, but they still managed feats that not even Android 16 or Imperfect Cell would do, such as being able to rivalize Gohan who is way way stronger than Android 18.

Just because 18 was shocked from their power doesn't mean they are stronger though. Roshi was shocked at kid Goku's power, but Roshi was still leagues above him if he got serious. And in the anime ssj Goten and Trunks teemed up on 18 for a while and she held them back, which pretty much means the writers of the anime also must of thought 18 was at least stronger than them individually, and the funimation dub had 18 say she was scared for the audience.

Tbh there is proof both ways. But if they did surpass 18 I would say it's more likely they did it after their ROSAT training.

I'm pretty sure even the FUNimation dub had her scared for her safety.[/quote]

This is what she said in the dub

"They're not joking around, that energy blast would of blown up this entire stadium."

[dragon boss z]

The anime is clearly wrong on that part. They also made a movie (the one with Bio Broly) where they showed Goten and Trunks being able to damage an opponent that stomped Android 18. That part of their fight between SSJ Trunks and Goten vs Android 18 was filler and was not in the manga, it's like how it was showed the Ginyu Force vs Yamcha, Tien and Chiaotzu, fillers that contradict power scalling. And the funimation dub is something we shouldn't trust at all.

Ya the anime isn't too accurate. But still their is the base Goten and Trunks being equal to characters equivalent to first form Frieza.

If Android 18 was confident she could finish the battle by winning, then why she decided to cut through half the disguise of Mighty Mask? She knew that was the only option, she could've easily continue the match if she was stronger than them, but she didn't continue it. She was saying how much power it has the attack.

18 doesn't like to fight. She just wanted to win the prize money. Just because she ended the fight as quick as possible doesn't mean she was afraid of losing.

She did know they would get disqualified since she was present when the kids weren't allowed to participate. If she thought she wouldn't lose then there would be no reason why she decided to cut the Mighty Mask disguise. Android 18 clearly shows inferiority against SSJ Trunks and Goten. Specially since the ki blast was suppressed and made Android 18 surprised.

Ya, maybe she did know, but all that proves is she wanted to win, not that she couldn't win without disqualifying them.

Well I might agree here, since I also have some doubts that the kids are above Piccolo. I always interpreted Piccolo's line of the kids as the last hope of Earth being more to the potential they had as saiyans. Although maybe it is possible that they indeed surpassed Piccolo, that's something I don't really know, but they are clearly above Android 18 for sure. But just an important detail, the kids were able to surprise Piccolo a bit, while Goku was there like nothing. That would imply that the kids are near Piccolo's power, we don't know if above or below, but they are around his power, since the kids were able to surprise Piccolo, but not as much as Android 18.

We also need to keep in mind that the kids were able to fight against Gohan and Vegeta, making feats that Android 18 and even Android 16 wouldn't be able to do. We just shouldn't underestimate the kids just because they are recently just kids. The story is telling us that they are stronger than what many people think.

True. I agree they could be stronger than 18, but just because Trunks landed a hit on a tired Vegeta who wasn't expecting Trunks to be so strong I wouldn't call that definite proof. The strongest opponents they ever beat were Abo and Cado, who were suppressed Frieaza tier. And in Super they had trouble with a big snake, lmao. though that was some BS.

[Gog]

Freeza finial form V ChiChi (Stats equalized)

[Alruneia]

Freeza final form V ChiChi (Stats equalized)

Based on technique alone? Well, Frieza. Chi-Chi has knowledge of martial arts, but no energy abilities. All Frieza has to do is fly away (or hover like twenty feet in the air) and fire some Death Beams.

[DBZAOTA482]

You're forgetting the 3 years and 8 months of training he had to do before that. He also had to scale the Karin Tower twice, and the water had an incredibly potent toxin that killed every person who drank it before him and put him in unbearable agony for 6 hours.

If anybody can surpass Piccolo so easily, why did Mutaito and co. waste their lives when they could just "do their own thing" for 2 or 3 years and then stomp him?

Why did Roshi waste his time scaling Karin tower and then spend 3 years trying to get the water when he could obtain much greater power through basic training?

It's a general theme throughout Dragon Ball that the new generation is naturally far superior to their predecessors. I mean, you have Yajirobe would fought on par with Goku in his first appearance with no special training or lineage to speak of or how Tien was able to compete with Goku in the tournaments while the other humans can't for no explicit reason?

Chi-Chi pushing Piccolo Daimao level from 7 years of (presumably) hard training for her hubby is not a huge stretch unless you just hate the idea of her being that strength.

Are people actually arguing Chi-chi vs King Piccolo? King Piccolo casually one shots her. It's someoen who is city level vs someoen who isn't even small building level.

You again? And do you even have proof?

This is what she said in the dub

"They're not joking around, that energy blast would of blown up this entire stadium."

That's just shitty dubbing. This also shouldn't concern her since she had no problems firing a ki blast towards the ring herself.

[TheUltimateNinja]

You're forgetting the 3 years and 8 months of training he had to do before that. He also had to scale the Karin Tower twice, and the water had an incredibly potent toxin that killed every person who drank it before him and put him in unbearable agony for 6 hours.

If anybody can surpass Piccolo so easily, why did Mutaito and co. waste their lives when they could just "do their own thing" for 2 or 3 years and then stomp him?

Why did Roshi waste his time scaling Karin tower and then spend 3 years trying to get the water when he could obtain much greater power through basic training?

It's a general theme throughout Dragon Ball that the new generation is naturally far superior to their predecessors. I mean, you have Yajirobe would fought on par with Goku in his first appearance with no special training or lineage to speak of or how Tien was able to compete with Goku in the tournaments while the other humans can't for no explicit reason?

Chi-Chi pushing Piccolo Daimao level from 7 years of (presumably) hard training for her hubby is not a huge stretch unless you just hate the idea of her being that strength.

Goku wasn't going all out against Yajirobe, he later reveals his real power against Tambourine. And Tenshinhan was a prodigy who was also much older than Goku.

And Roshi generally made sure to mention when the folks from the younger generation got ahead of him, but he never said anything about her surpassing him when he was talking about her.

[Noah]

Who's the strongest character in Z: Venomous Lavenda could beat?

[TheUltimateNinja]

Who's the strongest character in Z: Venomous Lavenda could beat?

Majin Vegeta.

[Ki Breaker]

Who's the strongest character in Z: Venomous Lavenda could beat?

Super Vegetto if Goku's god base is still a thing..
Otherwise I would go with SS2 teen Gohan or majin vegeta

[Lord Beerus]

Who's the strongest character in Z: Venomous Lavenda could beat?

I'd say Perfect Cell. Lavenda is really nothing special in the raw power department and relies more on poison to get the advantage. And even then, if the opponent is skilled enough, they can kick Lavenda's ass easily.