Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:He isn't exactly a weakling, since if we ignore all the Boo forms (since he dies in the end), and Vegetto (since he was only a temporary being that will never happen again), Goku is #3.
I mean the duration of the Boo saga because you got
That's pretty low on the list, and some can even extend it. You can move Goku in front of Kid Boo and he is still low. Goku is mid tier at best.
Kakarotto is the second strongest unfused character in the Boo Saga! And the SSJ3 Goku is a very very big deal.
All that other characters are merged and that is another history and Vegetto by far is the strongest of the fused characters.
Who is South Boo in your mixed character list???
Doesn't matter if he is the second strongest unfused character. He is still far weaker than several people putting him between mid tier and low tier. People can even extend this list further. The reason people try to hype Goku is that they hate he actually isn't that strong in comparison to the others above him. Compared to the other saga where he is either the strongest or close to it. He is second in the Saiyan Saga, First in the Freeza Saga, Third or 5th in the Cell saga (depending on forms you include or just full power only), and on my small list he is 10th (going further into forms can lower this position.
South Boo is South Kaioshin Boo. I just find South Boo a funny name.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:
It's Buff Buu.
But South Boo sounds funny. Imagine a Boo talking all southern like.
Last edited by dbzfan7 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
RandomGuy96 wrote:Kid Buu is likely stronger. So third.
Random, I go with this:
Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P13.1-6
Vegeta: “Don’t hesitate for my sake, and finish him off! With that Super Saiyan 3, you should be able to completely wipe out Boo with your ki once you gather it with all your might…!”
Goku: “Ye…yeah…I’ve been thinking of doing that as well since awhile back, but…I haven’t gotten the chance.”
Vegeta: “Eh?”
Goku: “If I want to wipe him out, I gotta gather ki for about one minute.”
Vegeta: “One minute?!”
Goku: “Dammnit~~~If it was with the Potara, I could have done it in one blast. …..Cheh~~~I guess I went and showed off too much. But I thought things would go a little better than this…!”
Vegeta: “…S …So you weren’t thinking of me…”
Both Goku & Vegeta confirm that SS3 Goku in full power can kill Pure Boo.
The use of "completely wipe out" and "gather your ki" likely refers to an amplified attack, i.e. a Kamehameha. In the fight itself Goku was at a noticeable disadvantage, and at the end of the fight he said he'd need to get much, much better to beat Kid Buu in a rematch.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
dbzfan7 wrote:
Doesn't matter if he is the second strongest unfused character. He is still far weaker than several people putting him between mid tier and low tier. People can even extend this list further. The reason people try to hype Goku is that they hate he actually isn't that strong in comparison to the others above him.
South Boo is South Kaioshin Boo. I just find South Boo a funny name.
But South Boo sounds funny. Imagine a Boo talking all southern like.
That´s not fair. Kakarotto is only one persona and is normal for him to be weaker than the fused ones on the Boo Saga. I don´t hype Goku in the Boo Saga, he is weaker than SSJ3 Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan.
But that´s no make sense. Buff Boo is stronger than Super Boo and how Ultimate Gohan and Gotenks are stronger than him???
RandomGuy96 wrote:The use of "completely wipe out" and "gather your ki" likely refers to an amplified attack, i.e. a Kamehameha. In the fight itself Goku was at a noticeable disadvantage, and at the end of the fight he said he'd need to get much, much better to beat Kid Buu in a rematch.
don´t make much sense to me gather energy one minute for an ¨amplified attack¨ because the only attack that need time to gather energy ( others energy ) is the Genki Dama!
One minute for a Kamehameha? Nah! And other type of energy ball? I don´t think so either!
RandomGuy96 wrote:The use of "completely wipe out" and "gather your ki" likely refers to an amplified attack, i.e. a Kamehameha. In the fight itself Goku was at a noticeable disadvantage, and at the end of the fight he said he'd need to get much, much better to beat Kid Buu in a rematch.
don´t make much sense to me gather energy one minute for an ¨amplified attack¨ because the only attack that need time to gather energy ( others energy ) is the Genki Dama!
Correct me if I'm wrong!
Vegeta's Final Flash took forever to charge, and so did Piccolo's Makakasepodsjfdkjf....Special Beam Cannon. Goku was probably going for a big attack like that. Imagine how powerful a Kamehameha would be if he took his time to put more power into it.
dbzfan7 wrote:
Doesn't matter if he is the second strongest unfused character. He is still far weaker than several people putting him between mid tier and low tier. People can even extend this list further. The reason people try to hype Goku is that they hate he actually isn't that strong in comparison to the others above him.
South Boo is South Kaioshin Boo. I just find South Boo a funny name.
But South Boo sounds funny. Imagine a Boo talking all southern like.
That´s not fair. Kakarotto is only one persona and is normal for him to be weaker than the fused ones on the Boo Saga. I don´t hype Goku in the Boo Saga, he is weaker than SSJ3 Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan.
But that´s no make sense. Buff Boo is stronger than Super Boo and how Ultimate Gohan and Gotenks are stronger than him???
He is still mid to low tier however you look at it and is considered fodder to the stronger beings
South Boo (I like the name dammit) is not stronger than Gohan as Gohan dominates Super Boo without any struggle. South Boo was described as Boo's ki increasing and not having drastically jumped. You have more of an argument for South Boo being above Gotenks, but seeing how the fight with Gotenks and Super Boo went, I would still say a noticeable increase isn't enough as even Super Boo seemed to get one upped a lot.
Last edited by dbzfan7 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
And it basically needs to be that big to completely destroy Kid Buu to the point of no return.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
dbzfan7 wrote:
He is still mid to low tier however you look at it and is considered fodder to the stronger beings
South Boo (I like the name dammit) is not stronger than Gohan as Gohan dominates Super Boo without any struggle. South Boo was described as Boo's ki increasing and not having drastically jumped. You have more of an argument for South Boo being above Gotenks, but seeing how the fight with Gotenks and Super Boo went, I would still say a noticeable increase isn't enough as even Super Boo seemed to get one upped a lot.
I personally put South Boo in front of SSJ3 Gotenks and maybe on par with Ultimate Gohan. U. Gohan can defeat Booccolo who is a bit stronger than Super Boo. South Boo is stronger than Booccolo and even stronger than Super Boo.
dbzfan7 wrote:
He is still mid to low tier however you look at it and is considered fodder to the stronger beings
South Boo (I like the name dammit) is not stronger than Gohan as Gohan dominates Super Boo without any struggle. South Boo was described as Boo's ki increasing and not having drastically jumped. You have more of an argument for South Boo being above Gotenks, but seeing how the fight with Gotenks and Super Boo went, I would still say a noticeable increase isn't enough as even Super Boo seemed to get one upped a lot.
I personally put South Boo in front of SSJ3 Gotenks and maybe on par with Ultimate Gohan. U. Gohan can defeat Booccolo who is a bit stronger than Super Boo. South Boo is stronger than Booccolo and even stronger than Super Boo.
That's a very noticeable power increase. And how do you know Buucollo < South Buu?
dbzfan7 wrote:
He is still mid to low tier however you look at it and is considered fodder to the stronger beings
South Boo (I like the name dammit) is not stronger than Gohan as Gohan dominates Super Boo without any struggle. South Boo was described as Boo's ki increasing and not having drastically jumped. You have more of an argument for South Boo being above Gotenks, but seeing how the fight with Gotenks and Super Boo went, I would still say a noticeable increase isn't enough as even Super Boo seemed to get one upped a lot.
I personally put South Boo in front of SSJ3 Gotenks and maybe on par with Ultimate Gohan. U. Gohan can defeat Booccolo who is a bit stronger than Super Boo. South Boo is stronger than Booccolo and even stronger than Super Boo.
On par with Gohan is ridiculous. Gohan made Super Boo his bitch. There is no way a little noticeable increase will make him on par with Gohan. Gotenks is already a little if not significantly stronger than Super Boo. South Boo is only a minor increase as Goku questions why his ki is increasing. If Goku said his ki is skyrocketing then maybe you would have a point. but he just says "isn't his ki getting bigger" which doesn't sound like he is getting a lot stronger, only that he is somehow getting stronger. The most that little increase could do is put him around Gotenks.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
What dbzfan said. The increase was barley noticeable (which makes sense, since the power suppressed should be proportionate to the evil suppressed, and this Buu was pretty damn evil), and Gotenks was already shown to be much stronger than Super Buu in their fight- that was a Mr.Buu vs Kid Buu kind of gap. I think that Buff Buu was barley 10% stronger than Super, while Gotenks was 20% stronger, maybe a little more.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
dbzfan7 wrote:
On par with Gohan is ridiculous. Gohan made Super Boo his bitch. There is no way a little noticeable increase will make him on par with Gohan. Gotenks is already a little if not significantly stronger than Super Boo. South Boo is only a minor increase as Goku questions why his ki is increasing. If Goku said his ki is skyrocketing then maybe you would have a point. but he just says "isn't his ki getting bigger" which doesn't sound like he is getting a lot stronger, only that he is somehow getting stronger. The most that little increase could do is put him around Gotenks.
fair enough!! On par with SSJ3 Gotenks sounds better.
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
I don't see why he would. If Kibito Kai is correct, Buff Buu is just Kid Buu with the South Kaioshin inside him. If what we saw really was that form, he shouldn't be able to power up past that, since there's no more hidden power to access.
Hmmm... if you were to go inside Buff Buu at that exact moment, would you find the South Kaioshin there? Would you find him inside Mr.Buu?
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
don´t make much sense to me gather energy one minute for an ¨amplified attack¨ because the only attack that need time to gather energy ( others energy ) is the Genki Dama!
