People are getting tired of Goku and here is why

[HeroR]

Concern that they lost a team member? A friendly comment about how he should watch back better? Reassurance that he tried his best and fought well? Anything at all?

Well, he just showed the concern, but you're still not satisfied. The other members of the team essentially said "so what"—not that I blame them. This is a competition, you've gotta maintain your mental focus in the heat of it.

No. They were training partners under Roshi and went on several adventures together. They clicked and now they're best friends. What's so strange about that?

What's strange about it is if you add back time to the context. They spent almost no time together as kids and even less as adults. Those "several"(I'd call it a couple) adventures you're talking about lasted less than day. Meanwhile, best friends who saw each other every day for years growing up and then drifted apart as adults can't claim such closeness.

I can't of 'several adventures' Goku and Krillin went on except the Pirate Cave in the Red Ribbon Army Saga, which wasn't even a day. After that, there was Baba's tournament where Goku mocked Krillin for losing so easily and that was also a day. Then the 22nd tournament, which was only several days in the anime, then Krillin died. Then the 23rd tournament and then Goku never bothered to see Krillin for five years. Then Goku died for a year and he couldn't go to Namek at first since he got hurt fighting Vegeta. Showed up on Namek and barely had time to do anything before getting hurt again and had to rush to fight Freeza. Fast forward to the Android/Cell Saga and Goku spent more time unconscious then with Krillin. Then Goku was dead for several years and the entire Buu Saga happened over a course of two days, barely any time with Krillin.

So yeah....Goku doesn't actually spend that much time with his best friend. Krillin spent more time with Gohan, and Goku was stuck with Vegeta for three years in the time chamber.

[Simere]

Your drifting the point away anyway. I don't care much to debate how or why they are friends. That's irrelevant. The point is they are and have been for most of the series, and now in DBS it seems like aren't because Goku acts as if he's just a random acquaintance.

The last page was discussing how Goku's friends meant so much more to him in DB and how much more they mattered in general...and I had no idea what they were talking about. I don't remember this Dragon Ball. I don't remember that Goku wasn't far and away the most prominent part of the story, and where Yamcha was made to look great. I remember Goku leaving his friends at the drop of a hat for years on end to continue his own growth by discovering new experiences, and how impermanent the side characters were in the story. Examining how little time Goku actually spent with them and what they actually contributed seems directly relevant to me.

[TekTheNinja]

Your drifting the point away anyway. I don't care much to debate how or why they are friends. That's irrelevant. The point is they are and have been for most of the series, and now in DBS it seems like aren't because Goku acts as if he's just a random acquaintance.

The last page was discussing how Goku's friends meant so much more to him in DB and how much more they mattered in general...and I had no idea what they were talking about. I don't remember this Dragon Ball. I don't remember that Goku wasn't far and away the most prominent part of the story, and where Yamcha was made to look great. I remember Goku leaving his friends at the drop of a hat for years on end to continue his own growth by discovering new experiences, and how impermanent the side characters were in the story. Examining how little time Goku actually spent with them and what they actually contributed seems directly relevant to me.

Well if you don't remember some of the things you listed you better do a rewatch because you're objectively wrong about some of those things. Like seriously, some of those thing are factually there.

[Simere]

Well if you don't remember some of the things you listed you better do a rewatch because you're objectively wrong about some of those things. Like seriously, some of those thing are factually there.

The only thing that angers me on this forum is being told I haven't watched/to rewatch something I've seen countless times; especially when they claim to have the objective truth on their side. Looking great isn't even a thing you can be objective about; it's a textbook case of subjective.

So, how about you do a rewatch, or maybe respond with something substantive next time. Like seriously.

[TekTheNinja]

Well if you don't remember some of the things you listed you better do a rewatch because you're objectively wrong about some of those things. Like seriously, some of those thing are factually there.

The only thing that angers me on this forum is being told I haven't watched/to rewatch something I've seen countless times; especially when they claim to have the objective truth on their side. Looking great isn't even a thing you can be objective about; it's a textbook case of subjective.

So, how about you do a rewatch, or maybe respond with something substantive next time. Like seriously.

I watch episodes regularly. Goku certainly cared about his friends more since he actually had concern for their safety. Most of Z he was NOT the most prominent part of the story, with the main characters often seeming to be Gohan, Krillin and Vegeta. Yamcha was never "great" per-say but he was not treated as human garbage by his friends. And lastly and most importantly you're entirely wrong about the side cast. They stayed. They weren't usually as strong as Goku but still in the same ballpark. They did badass and relevant things that advanced the plot. This doesn't happen in Super.

So no, it doesn't seem like you've watched or read the original series or manga recently enough to see these glaring differences.

[Meshack]

Dragon Ball, the only series where people whine about the main character being in the series.

I know right! Hilarious

[Meshack]

How do you remove the main character from the series? Especially someone who fits the role better than everyone else! Dragon Ball is a martial arts based manga/anime series. Son Gokuh is the perfect fit for this type of series. Gokuh loves to fight strong opponents even if it puts his family and friends in danger. He loves fighting more than anything else because he's a Saiyan. Vegeta's a Saiyan too but he needs Gokuh to get stronger. So why would you remove someone who makes others stronger in the end? Everyone participating as one of the 7th Universe Representatives got stronger because of Son Gokuh.

Who cares if Gokuh is shoved down our throats everyone episode? He's the main character! Find me a series that doesn't focus on the main character because there isn't one.

[Grimlock]

I know right! Hilarious

No, not really.

How do you remove the main character from the series?

Simply by giving others their chance to shine and to get proper character development. Dragon Ball has a lot of examples of material without Goku/that the focus wasn't Goku and that worked: Bardock's TV Special, Trunks' TV Special, Tarble's OVA, Dragon Ball Online, Dragon Ball Xenoverse... Those are proof that Dragon Ball can survive without Goku being constantly on-screen/have to be the main character.

Who cares if Gokuh is shoved down our throats everyone episode? He's the main character!

I care. It's annoying how he pops out out of nowhere within contexts his character doesn't even fit at all in the Tournament of Power.

Find me a series that doesn't focus on the main character because there isn't one.

Transformers. There are many stories that the focus isn't on Optimus Prime.

[Bullza]

Dragon Ball has a lot of examples of material without Goku/that the focus wasn't Goku and that worked: Bardock's TV Special, Trunks' TV Special, Tarble's OVA, Dragon Ball Online, Dragon Ball Xenoverse... Those are proof that Dragon Ball can survive without Goku being constantly on-screen/have to be the main character.

Those are a few one off specials at 30 to 60 minutes a pop. Two games, an MMO and a fighting game that aren't really that story centric anyway and the appeal was that you made your own character.

That's not proof of anything. It's a completely different thing entirely to push him out of an ongoing continuation of Dragon Ball Z.

[Grimlock]

Oh, there's also Dragon Ball GT's TV Special, forgot that one.

Those are a few one off specials at 30 to 60 minutes a pop. Two games, an MMO and a fighting game that aren't really that story centric anyway and the appeal was that you made your own character.

That's not proof of anything. It's a completely different thing entirely to push him out of an ongoing continuation of Dragon Ball Z.

What they are is irrelevant. What matters here is that those are all stories without Goku.

Yes it's a proof. A series based on anything I mentioned could be done without being afraid of having to get rid of Goku because they all worked.

[HeroR]

Oh, there's also Dragon Ball GT's TV Special, forgot that one.

Those are a few one off specials at 30 to 60 minutes a pop. Two games, an MMO and a fighting game that aren't really that story centric anyway and the appeal was that you made your own character.

That's not proof of anything. It's a completely different thing entirely to push him out of an ongoing continuation of Dragon Ball Z.

What they are is irrelevant. What matters here is that those are all stories without Goku.

Yes it's a proof. A series based on anything I mentioned could be done without being afraid of having to get rid of Goku because they all worked.

In short bouts, maybe.

Also, why are you using Online and Xenoverse when their gimmick is playing your avatar. It isn't like you're sitting down and watching a show.

[Meshack]

Grimlock's logic is flawed. The TV specials and
OVA he mentioned are not the main series. The main series is Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Super, not spin offs or video games.

[Grimlock]

Also, why are you using Online and Xenoverse when their gimmick is playing your avatar. It isn't like you're sitting down and watching a show.

Exactly. You're playing without having to see Goku on your screen, but Trunks instead, whose character comes from an another work that doesn't have Goku in it.

Grimlock's logic is flawed. The TV specials and
OVA he mentioned are not the main series. The main series is Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Super, not spin offs or video games.

Canonicity is also irrelevant, they still prove that there are materials without Goku that worked. Also, some works I mentioned are canonical.

[Meshack]

Grimlock's logic is flawed. The TV specials and
OVA he mentioned are not the main series. The main series is Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Super, not spin offs or video games.

Canonicity is also irrelevant, they still prove that there are materials without Goku that worked. Also, some works I mentioned are canonical.[/quote]
I didn't mention canon at all. You can't have spin offs without a main story and Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Super are the main stories. There's no questioning it. I'm not saying spin offs cannot work. I'm saying the main story cannot work without Son Gokuh.

[Grimlock]

Then sorry for the misunderstanding,

Still, Dragon Ball series surely can survive without Goku for one or two episodes. We don't need him to appear each and every episode.

[Meshack]

Then sorry for the misunderstanding,

Still, Dragon Ball series surely can survive without Goku for one or two episodes. We don't need him to appear each and every episode.

If there's a tournament in a battle royale style, you're bound to see Goluh.

[Guesswhoo]

Just throwing in my 2 cent but I think people are getting tired of Goku because of the actual trend of overpowered badass and occasionally very intelligent MC in anime. It may also explain the insane expectation for Gohan by the fanbase.

[Bullza]

What they are is irrelevant. What matters here is that those are all stories without Goku.

Yes it's a proof. A series based on anything I mentioned could be done without being afraid of having to get rid of Goku because they all worked.

Of course they're relevant, what kind of proof is that? Two 50 minute TV movies where the main character of one already looks exactly like Goku to begin. An OVA which Goku had plenty of time time in. MMO's don't focus on a specific character like that in the first place, the game never even released in most countries so that's how successful that was and then Xenoverse is a fighting game that has Goku in it like every other game.

What's worthwhile about that? They did a whole bunch of theatrical movies and the one that Goku hardly appeared in at all Bio-Broly was the least successful one of them all.

[HeroR]

What they are is irrelevant. What matters here is that those are all stories without Goku.

Yes it's a proof. A series based on anything I mentioned could be done without being afraid of having to get rid of Goku because they all worked.

Of course they're relevant, what kind of proof is that? Two 50 minute TV movies where the main character of one already looks exactly like Goku to begin. An OVA which Goku had plenty of time time in. MMO's don't focus on a specific character like that in the first place, the game never even released in most countries so that's how successful that was and then Xenoverse is a fighting game that has Goku in it like every other game.

What's worthwhile about that? They did a whole bunch of theatrical movies and the one that Goku hardly appeared in at all Bio-Broly was the least successful one of them all.

That's because the movie in general sucked. A better example would be the Bojack movie that was mostly about Gohan and did reasonably well. Movie 13 also focused more on Trunks, although Goku did get the killing blow on the final villain.

[TBMx]

DBZ Goku - Looks shocked at Vegeta's tearful confession of his past with Frieza, ignores his enemy and respectfully buries the Saiyan Prince, saying how he understands his past mistakes and how it wasnt all his fault. Kneels before the burial mound, asks to share his fiery will with him and says he'll do his best to carry out his wish of destroying Frieza.

Dbz Super Goku would have cut him off after the first sentence: He's strong enough to beat Vegeta!! That's interestin!! Fight me Frieza!!! *Charges at Frieza and leaves Vegeta to the crows*.