Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
dbzfan7 wrote:I don't know how much thread diving I'd have to do to see it all.
It depends. If you want to know just about Prison Planet stuff related, you do not need to dive too much. It all began earlier this year so you'll may want to go back to that period. But if you want to know since Dark Demon Realm stuff, well, good luck.
majinwarman wrote:I don't want any more evil Gokus.
This is the first time in the franchise though.
majinwarman wrote:Definitely Heroes. Random stuff comes out from nowhere and seems so much like AF.
Hardly. From everything I saw in fanfics, all "meh" and/or horrible stuff, nothing interesting to grab my attention. Unlike Heroes, which does bring nice content.
dbzfan7 wrote:
Wait...what? They actually pulled the trigger on legit evil Goku? They wouldn't even allow it in Xenoverse, but they finally allowed this to happen?
I wouldn't really count this as an evil Goku, otherwise we already had that back in Dragon Ball when he turns Great Ape
That'd be like not counting the Demigra mind control stuff, which effected everyone but Goku. There was a reason but even still. This is a legit Goku, corrupted to be evil. I wouldn't count the Great Ape as it's more primal than that. But I guess this may be the same. Gonna have to see how it plays out I guess.
I don't count the Demigra mind control stuff. I count evil Goku as Goku, but evil. If he's under mind control, he ain't evil Goku. And I liken it to the Great Ape because Heroes seems to depict it as him becoming more primal, while he can still talk he's basically in a beserk rage.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:
Spoiler:
HeroR wrote:The characters in Super can work with Goku and they're treated like equals to him. Goku just being in the room doesn't take away from the character. In Z, the characters were so depended on Goku that they couldn't go an episode without mentioning him in some way even by hoping he will arrived, get better, training to get stronger, our last hope, being like him, ect. Goku was wanked to hell in Z, even when he wasn't in the room and everyone else was secondary to him. In fact, this was a major issue Goku had, which is why he didn't want to do anything in the Buu Saga.
Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back.
Kanassa wrote:
I wouldn't really count this as an evil Goku, otherwise we already had that back in Dragon Ball when he turns Great Ape
That'd be like not counting the Demigra mind control stuff, which effected everyone but Goku. There was a reason but even still. This is a legit Goku, corrupted to be evil. I wouldn't count the Great Ape as it's more primal than that. But I guess this may be the same. Gonna have to see how it plays out I guess.
I don't count the Demigra mind control stuff. I count evil Goku as Goku, but evil. If he's under mind control, he ain't evil Goku. And I liken it to the Great Ape because Heroes seems to depict it as him becoming more primal, while he can still talk he's basically in a beserk rage.
I do on the grounds it shows he's not incorruptible. I don't count Oozaru because it's not inherently evil, just wild. The Demigra stuff is evil ki. I'm just more on the Goku is a pure saint that is impossible to succumb to evil ki, while other similar pure characters are despite being just as pure if not more so.
Grimlock wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:I don't know how much thread diving I'd have to do to see it all.
It depends. If you want to know just about Prison Planet stuff related, you do not need to dive too much. It all began earlier this year so you'll may want to go back to that period. But if you want to know since Dark Demon Realm stuff, well, good luck.
I kinda know some of the demon realm stuff but uh, if there is any quick guide I can check, that'd be swell
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
I'm honestly down for this . I know it's a turn off for some, but I can't wait to sit back with some popcorn and watch some stupid overblown fan service for fun.
ringworm128 wrote:I'm honestly down for this . I know it's a turn off for some, but I can't wait to sit back with some popcorn and watch some stupid overblown fan service for fun.
And no I'm not being sarcastic.
I'm with you. Too bad they didn't start from the Demon Realm stuff!
dbzfan7 wrote:
That'd be like not counting the Demigra mind control stuff, which effected everyone but Goku. There was a reason but even still. This is a legit Goku, corrupted to be evil. I wouldn't count the Great Ape as it's more primal than that. But I guess this may be the same. Gonna have to see how it plays out I guess.
I don't count the Demigra mind control stuff. I count evil Goku as Goku, but evil. If he's under mind control, he ain't evil Goku. And I liken it to the Great Ape because Heroes seems to depict it as him becoming more primal, while he can still talk he's basically in a beserk rage.
I do on the grounds it shows he's not incorruptible. I don't count Oozaru because it's not inherently evil, just wild. The Demigra stuff is evil ki. I'm just more on the Goku is a pure saint that is impossible to succumb to evil ki, while other similar pure characters are despite being just as pure if not more so.
Grimlock wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:I don't know how much thread diving I'd have to do to see it all.
It depends. If you want to know just about Prison Planet stuff related, you do not need to dive too much. It all began earlier this year so you'll may want to go back to that period. But if you want to know since Dark Demon Realm stuff, well, good luck.
I kinda know some of the demon realm stuff but uh, if there is any quick guide I can check, that'd be swell
But is rage subjective to context?
I mean goku has flown into one many times, just in this case his brain is so scrambled he'll attack anyone. He almost lost control on namek and told gohan to get away remember
Kanassa wrote:
I don't count the Demigra mind control stuff. I count evil Goku as Goku, but evil. If he's under mind control, he ain't evil Goku. And I liken it to the Great Ape because Heroes seems to depict it as him becoming more primal, while he can still talk he's basically in a beserk rage.
I do on the grounds it shows he's not incorruptible. I don't count Oozaru because it's not inherently evil, just wild. The Demigra stuff is evil ki. I'm just more on the Goku is a pure saint that is impossible to succumb to evil ki, while other similar pure characters are despite being just as pure if not more so.
Grimlock wrote:
It depends. If you want to know just about Prison Planet stuff related, you do not need to dive too much. It all began earlier this year so you'll may want to go back to that period. But if you want to know since Dark Demon Realm stuff, well, good luck.
I kinda know some of the demon realm stuff but uh, if there is any quick guide I can check, that'd be swell
But is rage subjective to context?
I mean goku has flown into one many times, just in this case his brain is so scrambled he'll attack anyone. He almost lost control on namek and told gohan to get away remember
It's more he was effected by Evil Ki, when that hasn't happened before. He was like untouchable to evil, but now the evil saiyan was able to corrupt him with evil ki.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:It's more he was effected by Evil Ki, when that hasn't happened before. He was like untouchable to evil, but now the evil saiyan was able to corrupt him with evil ki.
He was never untouchable for being Goku.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:
Spoiler:
HeroR wrote:The characters in Super can work with Goku and they're treated like equals to him. Goku just being in the room doesn't take away from the character. In Z, the characters were so depended on Goku that they couldn't go an episode without mentioning him in some way even by hoping he will arrived, get better, training to get stronger, our last hope, being like him, ect. Goku was wanked to hell in Z, even when he wasn't in the room and everyone else was secondary to him. In fact, this was a major issue Goku had, which is why he didn't want to do anything in the Buu Saga.
Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back.
dbzfan7 wrote:
I do on the grounds it shows he's not incorruptible. I don't count Oozaru because it's not inherently evil, just wild. The Demigra stuff is evil ki. I'm just more on the Goku is a pure saint that is impossible to succumb to evil ki, while other similar pure characters are despite being just as pure if not more so.
I kinda know some of the demon realm stuff but uh, if there is any quick guide I can check, that'd be swell
But is rage subjective to context?
I mean goku has flown into one many times, just in this case his brain is so scrambled he'll attack anyone. He almost lost control on namek and told gohan to get away remember
It's more he was effected by Evil Ki, when that hasn't happened before. He was like untouchable to evil, but now the evil saiyan was able to corrupt him with evil ki.
the notion goku was 'incorruptable' is nonsense fantheory and based on nothing from in series
mahakaishin1991 wrote:the notion goku was 'incorruptable' is nonsense fantheory and based on nothing from in series
Ehhhh. Remember when Goku fought the Devilman? Devilman's Devilmite Beam turns the target's evil thoughts against them, and have the power to turn the simplest of thoughts into a one-hit kill. Goku was completely unaffected by it due to his pure heart. Even in adulthood, Goku remains pure and naive to a fault.
mahakaishin1991 wrote:the notion goku was 'incorruptable' is nonsense fantheory and based on nothing from in series
Ehhhh. Remember when Goku fought the Devilman? Devilman's Devilmite Beam turns the target's evil thoughts against them, and have the power to turn the simplest of thoughts into a one-hit kill. Goku was completely unaffected by it due to his pure heart. Even in adulthood, Goku remains pure and naive to a fault.
Yep. But anyways I can't wait to see the moment in the anime.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
mahakaishin1991 wrote:the notion goku was 'incorruptable' is nonsense fantheory and based on nothing from in series
Ehhhh. Remember when Goku fought the Devilman? Devilman's Devilmite Beam turns the target's evil thoughts against them, and have the power to turn the simplest of thoughts into a one-hit kill. Goku was completely unaffected by it due to his pure heart. Even in adulthood, Goku remains pure and naive to a fault.
Devilman's beam turns negative thoughts against them. Goku wasn't thinking any negative thoughts, that doesn't make him some uncorruptable saint. He was just a nice kid who, at the time, had no negative thoughts to be turned against him. Which is not a sign of the bullshit 'image' being presented here.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:
Spoiler:
HeroR wrote:The characters in Super can work with Goku and they're treated like equals to him. Goku just being in the room doesn't take away from the character. In Z, the characters were so depended on Goku that they couldn't go an episode without mentioning him in some way even by hoping he will arrived, get better, training to get stronger, our last hope, being like him, ect. Goku was wanked to hell in Z, even when he wasn't in the room and everyone else was secondary to him. In fact, this was a major issue Goku had, which is why he didn't want to do anything in the Buu Saga.
Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back.
mahakaishin1991 wrote:the notion goku was 'incorruptable' is nonsense fantheory and based on nothing from in series
Ehhhh. Remember when Goku fought the Devilman? Devilman's Devilmite Beam turns the target's evil thoughts against them, and have the power to turn the simplest of thoughts into a one-hit kill. Goku was completely unaffected by it due to his pure heart. Even in adulthood, Goku remains pure and naive to a fault.
At one point Roshi could ride the nimbus because he was 'pure' and as he got older that stopped.
dbzfan7 wrote:I don't know how much thread diving I'd have to do to see it all.
It depends. If you want to know just about Prison Planet stuff related, you do not need to dive too much. It all began earlier this year so you'll may want to go back to that period. But if you want to know since Dark Demon Realm stuff, well, good luck.
majinwarman wrote:I don't want any more evil Gokus.
This is the first time in the franchise though.
majinwarman wrote:Definitely Heroes. Random stuff comes out from nowhere and seems so much like AF.
Hardly. From everything I saw in fanfics, all "meh" and/or horrible stuff, nothing interesting to grab my attention. Unlike Heroes, which does bring nice content.
To each their own then.
Majinwarman So I'm 'evil', huh? Interesting."
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.
What's more exciting is that the second episode will air just four days after UM3 is released. So we will get to know what might appear next in the anime in a matter of a few days.
Grimlock wrote:What's more exciting is that the second episode will air just four days after UM3 is released. So we will get to know what might appear next in the anime in a matter of a few days.
I forgot that UM3 was coming out in July.
Majinwarman So I'm 'evil', huh? Interesting."
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.
