Does anyone else feel that much of the DB fandom enforces low standards?

[ABED]

Comparing the merits of fictional feats and whether that makes one character more of a Mary Sue is so frivolous. Why does that sort of thing matter?

My question to this thread's topic is does anyone think what we say here matters in any substantive way to have any impact on the end product?

[The Bastard.]

Comparing the merits of fictional feats and whether that makes one character more of a Mary Sue is so frivolous. Why does that sort of thing matter?

My question to this thread's topic is does anyone think what we say here matters in any substantive way to have any impact on the end product?

Obviously no, it doesn't matter, what's your point?

[JulieYBM]

Adult Dragon Ball fandom doesn't hold any sway over the actual official franchise. We're not like Trek fandom or other big fandoms in that regard. That said, I think it's possible to make a change but it requires mass-level grass-roots organizing that the fandom doesn't seem quite passionate to attempt.

I think there should be a greater push for fan and unofficial works to be held to high production standards in the west, though. In Japan with the doujinshi market all sorts of different fan comics exist for different series that all include high production value. For example, Evangelion Re-Take or the Pokemon comic Festival of Champions. If we cannot get what we want from the official IP holder then let us create it for ourselves.

[ABED]

Comparing the merits of fictional feats and whether that makes one character more of a Mary Sue is so frivolous. Why does that sort of thing matter?

My question to this thread's topic is does anyone think what we say here matters in any substantive way to have any impact on the end product?

Obviously no, it doesn't matter, what's your point?

Then what's the point of the thread? How do we "enforce" anything? I guess the assumption is by enjoying the status quo and not demanding something more or better or at least new, we're keeping things stuck in stasis.

If we cannot get what we want from the official IP holder then let us create it for ourselves.

Do you mean create your own stuff or create DB for yourself?

[JulieYBM]

Comparing the merits of fictional feats and whether that makes one character more of a Mary Sue is so frivolous. Why does that sort of thing matter?

My question to this thread's topic is does anyone think what we say here matters in any substantive way to have any impact on the end product?

Obviously no, it doesn't matter, what's your point?

Then what's the point of the thread? How do we "enforce" anything? I guess the assumption is by enjoying the status quo and not demanding something more or better or at least new, we're keeping things stuck in stasis.

If we cannot get what we want from the official IP holder then let us create it for ourselves.

Do you mean create your own stuff or create DB for yourself?

I mean create high-quality works like this https://mangadex.org/chapter/214537/1 and https://mangadex.org/chapter/9021/1

Fandom can operate separate of the IP holders if we make sacrifices.

[The Bastard.]

Adult Dragon Ball fandom doesn't hold any sway over the actual official franchise. We're not like Trek fandom or other big fandoms in that regard. That said, I think it's possible to make a change but it requires mass-level grass-roots organizing that the fandom doesn't seem quite passionate to attempt.

I think there should be a greater push for fan and unofficial works to be held to high production standards in the west, though. In Japan with the doujinshi market all sorts of different fan comics exist for different series that all include high production value. For example, Evangelion Re-Take or the Pokemon comic Festival of Champions. If we cannot get what we want from the official IP holder then let us create it for ourselves.

Just the fact that it is a Japanese IP makes the west less relevant, the add the fact that most of the Americans grew up with a botched dub that has no relevance to the original material, that it's author ended the original run 20 years ago and it's a show aimed to all audiences, including children makes most of the people here just a blip, a blip holding opinions that make no sense for the vast majority of the watchers makes it even more irrelevant.

And to be fair, I'm glad, because many of the opinions here about how the show should be run or what storylines should be explored/what way should they be explored make absolutely no sense for Dragon ball. People want the show to be something that it never was and it isn't going to happen.

And it's in fact just a show, Super was good for me because I watched, had my fill of mindless fun and hype and moved on, I love this franchise, but it still a children's show about getting better and overcoming obstacles and this is fine too, I have high hopes for the manga return and I hope they fix what went wrong with Super production and I'm enjoying the Moro arc tho it's just a little too slow, so for me the franchise is doing fine and it will probably continuing to improve.

[The Bastard.]

Comparing the merits of fictional feats and whether that makes one character more of a Mary Sue is so frivolous. Why does that sort of thing matter?

My question to this thread's topic is does anyone think what we say here matters in any substantive way to have any impact on the end product?

Obviously no, it doesn't matter, what's your point?

Then what's the point of the thread? How do we "enforce" anything? I guess the assumption is by enjoying the status quo and not demanding something more or better or at least new, we're keeping things stuck in stasis.


I see what you mean, some people really think we at the west can have a sway at what happens with the franchise and this can't be further from reality, I saw someone argue that Super Broly had a metal song because of the Faulconer soundtrack which is hilarious to even think about and this shows that people here don't really stop to think to realize how big this franchise is compared to this forum and even the American fandom.

We don't enforce anything, if we didn't watch it's our loss because the franchise will continue doing what it does now, and if its sucessful in Japan and Latin America then it's all good.

[ABED]

The way to change things is to watch or not.

[Matches Malone]

Does anyone think what we say here matters in any substantive way to have any impact on the end product?

Of course not, but that doesn't mean we can't express our views on the topic. It's no different than complaining about how certain characters are treated, it may not change anything, but it's still worth talking about.

How do we "enforce" anything?

By speaking with our wallets.

People want the show to be something that it never was and it isn't going to happen.

We just want it to be like it was back in the day, where the people behind it cared about the product they put out. This is exactly what we mean by low standards, as it seems like asking for the bare minimum of quality control is somehow too much now.

[The Bastard.]

The way to change things is to watch or not.

Sure, but the niche that is this part of the fandom is small and irrelevant in the grand scope of things.

[The Bastard.]

Does anyone think what we say here matters in any substantive way to have any impact on the end product?

Of course not, but that doesn't mean we can't express our views on the topic. It's no different than complaining about how certain characters are treated, it may not change anything, but it's still worth talking about.

How do we "enforce" anything?

By speaking with our wallets.

People want the show to be something that it never was and it isn't going to happen.

We just want it to be like it was back in the day, where the people behind it cared about the product they put out. This is exactly what we mean by low standards, as it seems like asking for the bare minimum of quality control is somehow too much now.

No, you want your nostalgia back and with new things that you like on top of it.

DBZ is full of problems when it comes to animations, so is DB, filler, animations problems, pace problems still you don't say it doesn't have passion. Toyotaro has passion, the people that made BoG and Broly have passion, they are the same people that made super, but with time and budget, you can see the passion and the want to make something great in there, but it's again marred by production issues that bring the thing down, it's a thug of war between making a product and making a piece of art and often the artists get the short end of the stick. There's passion in Super, and that's what made me continue to watch it, it wasn't the animation that I can guarantee.

[Matches Malone]

You want your nostalgia back and with new things that you like on top of it.

I and many others simply want better quality products. We want the writing to be consistent, we want the staff (who I don't blame) to have a budget and time to work with, we want Toriyama to either writer full stories or step aside for someone who will, We want the stories to actually be new instead of call backs to what came before, etc. What do any of these requests have to do with nostalgia ? these are what we expect from any product, be it an anime, movie, video game, etc.

[The Bastard.]

You want your nostalgia back and with new things that you like on top of it.

I and many others simply want better quality products. We want the writing to be consistent, we want the staff (who I don't blame) to have a budget and time to work with, we want Toriyama to either writer full stories or step aside for someone who will, We want the stories to actually be new instead of call backs to what came before, etc. What do any of these requests have to do with nostalgia ? these are what we expect from any product, be it an anime, movie, video game, etc.

Tell me, what Super only story is a "callback" to earlier arcs? ToP is new, Zamasu is a totally different Villain from anyone else that came before, in fact Zamasu is the only Villain in Super, Super has no villains beside Zamasu, meanwhile there is DBZ "rehashing" Piccolo Daimao with bad guys that want to be immortal/want do dominate the universe, so boring right?


Super has new arcs and introduces new stuff all the time, and they actually made the effort of making new things, 2 tournaments, one which is a Battle Royale and a villain that it's not Cell but pink and dumber is not a rehash of anything, please stop. You just want to feel what you felt before, which is nostalgia, this won't happen.

[Matches Malone]

You just want to feel what you felt before, which is nostalgia, this won't happen.

How you took "I want new stories instead of call backs" to mean "I want the exact thing I had before" is something I'll never understand. I rarely, if ever said this to another fan, but you honestly have no idea what you're talking about, so let's just agree to disagree and move on.

[ABED]

Does anyone think what we say here matters in any substantive way to have any impact on the end product?

Of course not, but that doesn't mean we can't express our views on the topic. It's no different than complaining about how certain characters are treated, it may not change anything, but it's still worth talking about.

How do we "enforce" anything?

By speaking with our wallets.

People want the show to be something that it never was and it isn't going to happen.

We just want it to be like it was back in the day, where the people behind it cared about the product they put out. This is exactly what we mean by low standards, as it seems like asking for the bare minimum of quality control is somehow too much now.

But discussing what we think works or not is not what this thread is about, as far as I can tell.

[Matches Malone]

But discussing what we think works or not is not what this thread is about, as far as I can tell.

I just used that as an example, as anything we discuss here has little to no impact on the decisions made by the companies, or the opinions held by fans.

[The Bastard.]

You just want to feel what you felt before, which is nostalgia, this won't happen.

How you took "I want new stories instead of call backs" to mean "I want the exact thing I had before" is something I'll never understand. I rarely, if ever said this to another fan, but you honestly have no idea what you're talking about, so let's just agree to disagree and move on.

Super is all new stories yet for you this is not enough apparently, so nostalgia is the only logical explanation to your complaining.

Super is also repeating many of the mistakes of old DB so at the very least it's the same show we had in the past, but you're not a kid anymore so now you notice it.

About your last phrase, fine by me.

[ABED]

I don't feel too strongly one way or the other about Super since I don't love it but I'm entertained by it.

I'm watching and loving Cobra Kai which is steeped in nostalgia. I love the call backs but it also takes the characters in new interesting places.

[JulieYBM]

Cobra Kai is this weird conglomeration of Appealing to Nostalgia but also not really being too critical of Johnny's bigotry and out of date-ness beyond milquetoast comments. It really needs to be harsher on condemning the ignorance of its hero without dragging the "we'll just leave him be" aspect out.

The finale of both seasons have kick-ass fights, though.

[ABED]

The show is pretty clear that he isn't in the right when he does it and that it's a cover for a deep well of pain which also results in his being stuck in the past. In fact it's pretty clear that both characters being stuck in the past brings out the worst in them.

Bottom line, long running stories shouldn't be afraid to use the past to great effect but it has to go beyond pure nostalgia. Telling a story of characters being stuck in the past negatively affecting their present is good. Bringing back a popular villain who was long since dead because they were popular is bad.