The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Perfect]

So if base Goku dodges an attack and then SSJ Goku dodges an attack later on, I guess that means base Goku = SSJ Goku. So by that logic, Vegeta = Freeza = Cell = Majin Buu = Farmer. Damn, I guess Goku was a totally useless character after all...

[Saiga]

Not sure if any of these have been done, but...

Ultimate Gohan vs Super Janemba

SS2 pre-teen Gohan vs Hatchiyack (assuming Hatchiyack is stronger than Broli)

Chi-Chi vs Kame Sen'nin (early Saiyan saga for both)

SS Future Gohan vs Mecha Freeza and King Cold

[Kaboom]

Ultimate Gohan vs Super Janemba

I view Evil Janemba and Evil Boo as counterparts to each other. If Gohan can pwn one, then he can most likely pwn the other. He might have some trouble figuring out Janemba's freaky dis-assembly and portal powers, though.

SS2 pre-teen Gohan vs Hatchiyack (assuming Hatchiyack is stronger than Broli)

Uh, I'm a little sketchy on Hatchiyack and what he can do, but I'll assume that he still falls in with Broly, Cell, Bojack, and Dabra as "villains whom can be beaten by Super Saiyan 2 people." Gohan might have some trouble, though, unless he manages to reap some extra anger-power.

Chi-Chi vs Kame Sen'nin (early Saiyan saga for both)

They may have similar power, but I doubt Chi-Chi could overcome Roshi's centuries' worth of of experience, skill, and techniques.

SS Future Gohan vs Mecha Freeza and King Cold

Future Trunks was supposedly quite stronger than Gohan was by the time he went into the past, and even then he was only around even with Goku, who most likely was only moderately stronger than on Namek. So... let's say Gohan could take on and beat Cold or Freeza individually, but not both at the same time like Trunks or Goku could.

[CatouttaHell]

Ultimate Gohan vs Super Janemba

Janemba is overrated as hell, all he did was defeat SSjin 3 Goku after a long struggle. He'd get one-shotted by Base Gotenks (Post,) let alone Ultimate Gohan.

SS2 pre-teen Gohan vs Hatchiyack (assuming Hatchiyack is stronger than Broli)

Hatchiyack stomps unless Son Gohan gets a rage boost like he did in the Kamehameha struggle.

Chi-Chi vs Kame Sen'nin (early Saiyan saga for both)

Chichi takes down Roshi the same way 21st Roshi took out Yamucha.

SS Future Gohan vs Mecha Freeza and King Cold

Son Gohan loses after a good fight.

[Angelus]

Olibu (Kaoiken x 20) VS Kid Buu

No candy beam. No absorptions. Place, on Grand Kai's planet.

In this scenario, this hypothetical Olibu is the same as the filler DBZ Olibu. However, he would know Kaoiken x20. Which isn't impossible to think considering he's King Kai's student.

Olibu, on my estimate, may possibly be around the neighborhood of Perfect Cell's (start of Cell Games) level.

[Saiga]

Olibu (Kaoiken x 20) VS Kid Buu

No candy beam. No absorptions. Place, on Grand Kai's planet.

In this scenario, this hypothetical Olibu is the same as the filler DBZ Olibu. However, he would know Kaoiken x20. Which isn't impossible to think considering he's King Kai's student.

Olibu gets destroyed.

[Angelus]

Olibu, on my estimate, may possibly be around the neighborhood of Perfect Cell's (start of Cell Games) level.

[Kaboom]

That's hard to tell, I think. How much of a challenge did Olibu really give Paikuhan, who supposedly didn't go all-out until he fought Goku? I'm a little sketchy on the details of the Afterlife Tournament.

BUT if Olibu really is roughly at Perfect Cell's level, then I think a Kaio-Ken x20 may well get him up to or above Pure Boo's level... though whether he could win a fight against Boo with that power only coming in bursts is a different story.

[Angelus]

Yeah, Goku was barely able to pull of a Kaoiken x20, though this was during the Freeza Saga.

How this Olibu fare if he only used Kaoiken x10 against Kid Buu?

[Perfect]

Perfect Cell (post-zenkai) + Kaio-Kenx20 vs. Ultimate Gohan

Dabra vs. Freeza (equal battle power)

SSJ2 Vegeta vs. Piccolo (equal battle power)

Pikkon vs. Freeza (equal battle power)

Pikkon vs. Cell (equal battle power)

[Kaboom]

Perfect Cell (post-zenkai) + Kaio-Kenx20 vs. Ultimate Gohan

It'd be like Gohan vs Gotenks-Boo all over again.

Dabra vs. Freeza (equal battle power)

Dabra's got way more special abilities up his sleeve than Freeza. Freeza's nudity will be his downfall when he gets spit on!

SSJ2 Vegeta vs. Piccolo (equal battle power)

Vegeta's got some mad tactical skills, but when he's actually fighting, he tends to just blast away at his opponent. Piccolo strikes me as much more level-headed and skilled when it comes to actually fighting, plus he's got more tricks and special techniques up his sleeve. I think he'd take it.

Paikuhan vs. Freeza (equal battle power)

Paikuhan has WAY more going for him in skill and technique than Freeza. He wins pretty easily.

Paikuhan vs. Cell (equal battle power)

Cell would probably take this one. He's got smarts and skills as well, on par with those of Goku who actually managed to win a match against Paikuhan thanks to strategy.

[Saiga]

Perfect Cell (post-zenkai) + Kaio-Kenx20 vs. Ultimate Gohan

Cell might be stronger, but KK20 is a pretty flawed technique. Gohan takes this.

Dabra vs. Freeza (equal battle power)

Dabra takes this pretty easily.

SSJ2 Vegeta vs. Piccolo (equal battle power)

I'd say Vegeta wins. He's a tough bastard and a fighting genius and such.

Paikuhan vs. Freeza (equal battle power)

This is tricky. I'd say Paikuhan, though. He should have a lot of fighting experience due to his training in other world.

Paikuhan vs. Cell (equal battle power)

Again, it's tricky. Cell is a more capable fighter than Freeza, and has more techniques in his arsenal with regeneration on top of it, but it could go either way. Probably in Cell's favour.

[Fox666]

Perfect Cell (post-zenkai) + Kaio-Kenx20 vs. Ultimate Gohan

I don't think Cell could realistically increase his power any further using the Kaio-ken. But I can speculate what a Cell 20 times more powerfull could do.

If Cell is around the level of a Super Saiyan 2, so Ultimate Gohan would need to be 5 times stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. This all falls on a Super Saiyan Gotenks vs fat Majin Boo discussion that I really don't know the answer.

[Saiga]

Huh, didn't think of that. If that's the case I'd probably have U. Gohan being higher than KKx20 Cell so he'd utterly stomp him.

[Perfect]

Goku managed it fairly well against Freeza, so I don't see why someone like Cell wouldn't be able to. That's also not to say Cell wouldn't be able to go beyond x20, theoretically of course.

[Saiga]

Goku managed it fairly well against Freeza, so I don't see why someone like Cell wouldn't be able to. That's also not to say Cell wouldn't be able to go beyond x20, theoretically of course.

Goku's KK20 brought him to Freeza's PL and yet he could only barely damage his hand with a Kamehameha, so I think Cell would be completely fucked against someone stronger than him.

[Perfect]

SSJ3 is 4 times above SSJ2, so we can logically say that Goku is 4 times stronger than SSJ2 Gohan + X equaling the battle power increase in his base form from the seven years. We know SSJ Goku's kiri level is 3,000, whereas Dabra's is 4,000. We know Dabra is as strong as "Perfect Cell" in terms of battle power (Daiz. 7). That means Dabra is 1.33 times stronger than SSJ Goku. We don't know how this translates into battle power, but I think we can make sense of it still. If Dabra's battle power is 10,000, then SSJ Goku's battle power would have to be 7,500.

Following this algorithm, SSJ2 Goku's battle power would be 15,000, making him 1.5 times stronger than Dabra. If we take it one step further and times 15,000 by 4, then SSJ3 Goku's battle power is 60,000. This makes SSJ3 Goku 6 times stronger than Dabra, which you could have also figured out by multiplying 1.5 and 4. For the sake of the argument, let's place Cell's battle power at both Dabra's and somewhere above (mainly due to the argument over what Cell is being referred to as having equal battle power to him).

So if Cell's battle power is 10,000, then the Kaio-ken x 20 would put him at 200,000; that's 3.33 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku. We have no idea how strong Gohan is in comparison to SSJ3 Goku, but we do have some feats to compare.

*SSJ3 Goku can fight evenly with Innocent Boo.
*Goku stated he could have defeated Innocent Boo.
*Goku asserts Evil Boo is stronger than him and Vegeta.
*Gohan is stronger than Evil Boo, who's above SSJ3 Goku.
*Gohan > Evil Boo > SSJ3 Goku > Innocent Boo

If we want to assume Cell's battle power is higher than Dabra's, based on Gohan only being SSJ against him, or being SSJ2 Gohan's weaker teenage self being equal with Dabra, then we have a whole new lot of variables to deal with. If Goku's kiri is 3,000 then we have to arbitrarily make up a (weaker) number for Gohan. Let's go with three just to be safe, 2,000, 2,500 and 2,800. With these three numbers we have to make two scenarios, for both SSJ and SSJ2 Gohan.

If Gohan was SSJ against Dabra, that would mean Dabra was about twice as strong as Gohan (meaning he'd have to have been holding back). This is of course using the 2,000 kiri. If we use the 2,500 number, then Dabra is 1.6 times stronger than Gohan. Using the 2,800 model, we get Dabra being 1.42 times stronger than Gohan. So if Dabra's battle power is 10,000, that would mean Gohan could have the following battle powers:
*5,000
*6,250
*7,042.25

This means that SSJ2 Gohan's battle powers could be 10,000, 12,500 or 14,084.50. That gives us SSJ2 Gohan being exactly equal with Dabra, 1.25 times stronger or 1.40 stronger. We know Gohan had gotten weaker than his preteen self, so this automatically puts Cell above Dabra, because Dabra cannot be as strong as Cell, but weaker than teenage Gohan. However, we don't know how kiri works exactly. So Gohan could have a kiri measurement of 1,000, though these numbers seem far more plausible.

If we want to go with the first model, that Gohan wasn't SSJ2 from the beginning, we'll arbitrarily make Cell 1.7 times stronger than SSJ2 Gohan. Gohan's battle power: 10,000 times 1.7 = 17,000 (Cell's battle power), giving a 42% power decrease. Now, if that's too big of a loss for some of us here, then let's make Cell only 1.5 times stronger. That gives us a 33.33 decrease in power. Now Cell's battle power of course has six possibilities based on the above.
*10,000 x1.7 = 17,000 x20 = 340,000 (5.66 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku) - doesn't work, because it puts Cell above SSJ2 Goku
*12,500 x1.7 = 21,250 x20 = 425,000 (7.08 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku) - doesn't work, because it puts Cell above SSJ2 Goku
*14,084.50 x1.7 = 23,943.65 x20 = 478,873 (7.98 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku) - doesn't work, because it puts Cell above SSJ2 Goku

*10,000 x1.5 = 15,000 x20 = 300,000 (5 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku) - doesn't work, because it puts Cell at SSJ2 Goku
*12,500 x1.5 = 18,750 x20 = 375,000 (6.25 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku) - doesn't work, because it puts Cell above SSJ2 Goku
*14,084.50 x1.5 = 21,126.75 x20 = 422,535 (7.04 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku) - doesn't work, because it puts Cell above SSJ2 Goku

For the hell of it, I've thrown in 1.3, which indicates a 23 percentile drop on Gohan's part.
*10,000 x1.3 = 13,000 x20 = 260,000 (4.33 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku)
*12,500 x1.3 = 16,250 x20 = 325,000 (5.41 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku) - doesn't work, because it puts Cell above SSJ2 Goku
*14,084.50 x1.3 = 18,309.85 x20 = 366,197 (6.10 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku) - doesn't work, because it puts Cell above SSJ2 Goku

Now, if Gohan was SSJ2 against Dabra from the start, that would mean Gohan's kiri measurement would have to be above 3,000. We'll go with 3,400, 3,600 and 3,800. With these measurements, we get Dabra being 1.17, 1.11 and 1.05 times stronger than Gohan. That gives Gohan a battle power of 8,547, 9,009 and 9523.80. Once again I'll be using Cell's 1.3, 1.5 and 1.7 multipliers for this one too, which'll give us the following.
*8,547 x1.7 = 14,529.9 x20 = 290,598 (4.84 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku)
*9,009 x1.7 = 15,315.3 x20 = 306,306 (5.10 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku) - doesn't work, because it puts Cell above SSJ2 Goku
*9523.80 x1.7 = 16,190.46 x20 = 323,809.2 (5.39 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku) - doesn't work, because it puts Cell above SSJ2 Goku

*8,547 x1.5 = 12,820.5 x20 = 256,410 (4.27 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku)
*9,009 x1.5 = 13,513.5 x20 = 270,270 (4.50 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku)
*9523.80 x1.5 = 14,285.7 x20 = 285,714 (4.76 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku) - doesn't work, because it puts Cell above SSJ2 Goku

*8,547 x1.3 = 11,111.1 x20 = 222,222 (3.70 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku)
*9,009 x1.3 = 11,711.7 x20 = 234,234 (3.90 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku)
*9523.80 x1.3 = 12,380.94 x20 = 247,618.8 (4.12 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku)

Now, if we choose Cell's weakest battle power, which would be 10,000, and then his highest, which would be 23,943.65, we can get a range of how strong Cell is theoretically. Since Cell could also theoretically use a higher form of the Kaio-ken, he could have an even higher battle power.
10,000 + Kaio-ken x20 = 200,000 (3.33 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku)
10,000 + Kaio-ken x30 = 300,000 (5 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku)
10,000 + Kaio-ken x40 = 400,000 (6.66 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku)
10,000 + Kaio-ken x50 = 500,000 (8.33 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku)
v---won't work unless you think Cell > SSJ2 Goku
23,943.65 + Kaio-ken x20 = 478,873 (7.98 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku)
23,943.65 + Kaio-ken x30 = 718,309.5 (11.97 time stronger than SSJ3 Goku)
23,943.65 + Kaio-ken x40 = 957,746 (15.96 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku)
23,943.65 + Kaio-ken x50 = 1,197,182.5 (19.95 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku)

This gives us a range of Cell being 3.33 to 8.33 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku with the Kaio-ken x20-50, plus a range of 7.98 to 19.95 with belief of Cell > SSJ2 Goku. We have no idea how to further base anything else on power alone, but in my opinion, I don't think Gohan is too far ahead of Goku, I'd say 19.95 would for sure be far above Gohan. Of course logically, Cell would be below SSJ2 Goku, so only numbers below 15,000 should work.

Note: Gohan's kiri and theoretical battle power combined with Cell's lead has to be less than SSJ2 Goku's 15,000. I've edited it to show which don't work now. Also Giving Gohan a low kiri and Cell a high gap isn't very logical.

Based on my interpretation of Goku and Freeza's fight, I view them as both being relatively equal for a while. When Goku first starts to use the Kaio-ken x20, he fights evenly with Freeza, both of them getting attacks in and out. They both wipe blood from their mouths at one point, showing that they both got some good hits in. At this point, Freeza takes things up a notch, where Goku can barley touch him. This is likely because Goku's battle power is wearing down heavily due to the usage of the Kaio-ken x20, whereas Freeza's battle power is remaining static. Then Goku charges up for a moment, in which he launches himself at Freeza, who's unable to dodge Goku's attacks. Freeza only evaded serve injury from the Kamehameha because he had to of used more power to divert it. Freeza actually shows signs of struggling heavily with this, plus seeing that he was unable to dodge the first hit, he may have just boosted himself over Goku's level. If Goku's battle power is 60,000,000, then his Kamehameha would automatically have a greater power, meaning Freeza would have to have boosted himself slightly above 50%. However, that's only if you actually believe Goku was still at 60,000,000 with the Kaio-ken x20 at that point in time. I'd estimate Goku's loss of power to be around 1,000,000 at that point, or even more. That would mean his battle power was only 40,000,000 and his Kamehameha would probably be somewhere between 50,000,000 and 70,000,000, meaning that Freeza could have simply just used all of his 50 percentile strength against Goku or upped himself slightly more.

Now if we look at Goku versus Vegeta, we have something different entirely. Kaio-ken x2 Goku (+16,000) was able to surprise a 15,000 - 16,000 Vegeta and get a good hit in. The Kaio-ken x2 after Vegeta's power up has absolutely no significance, seeing that his 18,000 easily topples it. However, the Kaio-ken x3, completely over takes him. That puts Goku at a total of +24,000, which implies that if there's a significant difference of the battle powers, the Kaio-ken side can cause some serve damage or kill their opponent. The Kaio-ken x4 doesn't really say anything for this situation, other than it let Goku beat Vegeta in a beam struggle, at which we don't know Vegeta's battle power. Kaio-ken x3 Goku is 1.33 times stronger than Vegeta, so logically Cell should only need a 1.33 power gap to topple Ultimate Gohan while using the Kaio-ken, whereas being equal with him would call for an immediate usage of beating him.

I find that argument to be entirely irrelevant anyway, seeing that the more powerful a user is, the better adjusted, the more skilled, the more control a user has, all definitely plays a role in the usage of the Kaio-ken. Cell is superior to Goku in this aspect, so I highly doubt he wouldn't be able to use it to his advantage. Plus if we're to assume Cell knows how to use the Kaio-ken in full, then he'd know its advantages and disadvantages, allowing him to finish off Gohan before his power dropped too low. The only problem with any of this is that we don't know how much stronger Gohan is than SSJ3 Goku (our only example is really Gotenks, and I have no idea on that). I mean if it really came down to him being stronger, we could just up the Kaio-ken to a feasible amount (whatever would put him around that level, since we're mainly trying to see if Kaio-ken Cell could manage a win, though x20 should suffice [plus it is the variable in question]).

[Saiga]

What's the point if you're just going to keep upping the KK amount Cell has?

[Perfect]

I'm just proposing the possibility, since the internal question here is what if the Kaio-ken could boost him to that level? Because face it, do we really know how many times stronger Gohan is than SSJ3 Goku? No, so it could be that x20 Cell is around his level, or not. If so, great, we can assume >=<, and by that we can make our assumptions, but I don't think that purely based on maintaining the Kaio-ken would result in "getting stomped". I think it could result in a win/lose situation depending entirely on how he spends his time, as opposed to simply losing.

Personally I see x20 as just the right amount to get near Gohan's level, if not more (which is why I decided to use that number, the higher bit is only, again, theoretical). If you don't think Cell could use the Kaio-ken like that, that's a fair argument, since many speculate he can't use it all.

[Saiga]

I'm going to put how I see it in numbers.

SS2 Pre-teen Gohan/Cell post Zenkai = 100
SS2 Angry Gohan = 150
SS2 teen Gohan = 120 (I go by the Daizenshuu that says he actually got stronger, but no longer drew strength from his rage)
SS2 Vegeta = 160 (stronger than an angry Gohan from seven years ago)
SS2 Goku/Majin Vegeta = 180
Majin Boo = 300 (assuming SS2 teen Gohan makes up 40% of the energy)
SS Gotenks (post RoSaT) = 380 (enough to defeat Majin Boo)
SS3 Goku = 720
Super Boo = 3000
SS3 Gotenks = 3040
U. Gohan = 3500

Of course, I used to believe SS Gotenks (post RoSaT) >= SS3 Goku, and possibly still do, so basing it off of that:

SS Gotenks = 760
SS3 Gotenks = 6080
U. Gohan = 7000

Which would even be enough to god stomp Cell with a KK50 (5000) and kill Cell inbetween bursts of KK100.