Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[cantwaitanymore]

Yeah, and how did you do that?

What DEFINITIVE PROOF have you come up with that uses specific dialogue quotes, authoritarian statements from the creators, scene-by-scene breakdowns, etc., to definitely prove me wrong? You just said I'm ignoring facts, even though I brought up specific instances from the movie that I specifically watched beforehand, combined with basic interpretative analysis through contextual reading and narrative breakdown.

What??? Lmao, i literally did all the quotes, i broke the entire fight down 2 pages before. All you did was say that you believe they are equal because Broly isnt as skilled Gogeta. Equal fight was Ikari Broly vs PSSB Goku buddy, that was back and fort, while Broly didnt land a punch on Gogeta. Go back 2 pages before and read my entire breakdown. You LITERALLY didnt bring up ANYTHING.
Look at what you have stated : ``Gogeta does better because he's a smaller opponent with an actual handle on his martial arts and mental stability``
COMPLETELY baseless, nowhere is it stated, hinted or implied. Ur opinion, ur headcanon. As i said Broly DIDNT LAND A SINGLE PUNCH, watch the whole fight in slow mo and read my breakdown from 2 pages before and QUOTE me on the parts you deem are false. HE was the one forced to power up TO FPSSJ after Gogeta literally styled on him doing a spinning backfist attack with both hands, similar to Gotenks` attack with one hand spinning. He was toying with him the whole fight, and once they went Blue and FPSSJ he went for the kill.

Try and structure things without as much 133t speak and whatnot, will ya?

When the 2 are exchanging blows in classic DB fashion, the two of them demonstrate equal strength during their flurries. As well, SS Gogeta's attacks weren't doing as much damage to SS Ikari Broly as SSB Gogeta was to Full-Power Broly. During the first part of their fight, Broly was able to blow back that huge barrage of Ki blasts that Gogeta fired upon him after the latter had heavily charged it up easily enough and resisted the blasts better than when Gogeta Blue did the same thing against Full-Power Broly. Additionally, the two of them have equal speed throughout the fight, producing after-images and keeping up with each other at relative levels.

In addition to that, the two of them fire their respective blasts at each other and break the dimensional fabric; neither blast overpowers the other, showing that they're relatively even. Finally, Broly IS berserk and can't control himself. Early on when Broly first uses his Oozaru power, Paragus notes that Broly loses all control. Nothing in the overall fight contradicts this notion, and in fact we see that this uncontrollable berserk is ramped up when Freeza kills Paragus and Broly turns Super Saiyan. We know that when Saiyans rage out into Super Saiyans for the first time, they become extremely rage-fueled and more ferocious when they fight. Combine this with Broly's already uncontrolled Great Ape power, and you have a recipe for disaster. We even see that SS Broly doesn't discriminate, going after Freeza after simply being baited into going after him by Goku and Vegeta despite having not actually done anything that Broly knew of, as well as Whis who was simply in the vicinity that Broly was in.

So, when Broly is fighting Gogeta, he has no sense of self and is effectively mindless, meaning he likely doesn't showcase the kind of combat adaptability that he showed against Vegeta early on and instead relies on raw power and ferocity. A mindless beast is dangerous but easily predicted and countered.

His rage doesnt hinder his fighting, thats your opinion and headcannon, end of debate.

[cantwaitanymore]

So are you saying the SSG from BOG is stronger than the SSG from the Universal Survival Arc? If you're that's false.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the multiplier is dramatically higher according to what we've seen. Goku "made the power his own" after he merged with the power of SSG, and ever since that point it has seemingly been a lesser multiplier. And it makes intuitive sense considering that he already, to some extent, "has" that power.

There's nothing concrete to say that, more else due to Super's sketchy writing Goku's power level changes like the wisp of the wind. We don't know how strong his base is at this point; it goes from being weaker than FF Frieza to stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks to stronger than SSG to stronger than SSB to everything in between. Additionally, fusion must have been retconned, since before Goku implied a fusion wouldn't be a match for heavily suppressed Beerus. Whereas, now we see a fusion of two far weaker characters far exceed the power of SSG in base and approach God of Destruction level in SSJ2.

Why are we taking anime as canon? Kefla in manga and Kefla in anime astronomically different. Anime is incosistent even to itself, let alone to the manga. Even anime ditched the concept of Goku absorbing his SSG. I mean people hang about the quote from BoG movie, but Goku was reffering to Potara probably as Vegeta doesnt know Fusion (until know). I mean there are a lot of statements from that movie that dont corespond with todays events, like Beerus using 70% of his full power. They were just getting started and getting the hang of the whole DBS universe, so it was bound to have a lot of mistakes.

Also and most importantly the bullshit headcanon that base fusions are strongest forms x 10 or more is bullshit, proven in the manga by Fused Zamasu = PSSB Goku and SSJ Kefla = Gohan.
Its also proven in the DBZ manga, as Gotenks after 1hour of outside time = 15 days of inside time in RoSat got stronger in his base form than he was previously in his SSJ form. So STOP with that bullshit.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Spoiler:

What??? Lmao, i literally did all the quotes, i broke the entire fight down 2 pages before. All you did was say that you believe they are equal because Broly isnt as skilled Gogeta. Equal fight was Ikari Broly vs PSSB Goku buddy, that was back and fort, while Broly didnt land a punch on Gogeta. Go back 2 pages before and read my entire breakdown. You LITERALLY didnt bring up ANYTHING.
Look at what you have stated : ``Gogeta does better because he's a smaller opponent with an actual handle on his martial arts and mental stability``
COMPLETELY baseless, nowhere is it stated, hinted or implied. Ur opinion, ur headcanon. As i said Broly DIDNT LAND A SINGLE PUNCH, watch the whole fight in slow mo and read my breakdown from 2 pages before and QUOTE me on the parts you deem are false. HE was the one forced to power up TO FPSSJ after Gogeta literally styled on him doing a spinning backfist attack with both hands, similar to Gotenks` attack with one hand spinning. He was toying with him the whole fight, and once they went Blue and FPSSJ he went for the kill.

Try and structure things without as much 133t speak and whatnot, will ya?

When the 2 are exchanging blows in classic DB fashion, the two of them demonstrate equal strength during their flurries. As well, SS Gogeta's attacks weren't doing as much damage to SS Ikari Broly as SSB Gogeta was to Full-Power Broly. During the first part of their fight, Broly was able to blow back that huge barrage of Ki blasts that Gogeta fired upon him after the latter had heavily charged it up easily enough and resisted the blasts better than when Gogeta Blue did the same thing against Full-Power Broly. Additionally, the two of them have equal speed throughout the fight, producing after-images and keeping up with each other at relative levels.

In addition to that, the two of them fire their respective blasts at each other and break the dimensional fabric; neither blast overpowers the other, showing that they're relatively even. Finally, Broly IS berserk and can't control himself. Early on when Broly first uses his Oozaru power, Paragus notes that Broly loses all control. Nothing in the overall fight contradicts this notion, and in fact we see that this uncontrollable berserk is ramped up when Freeza kills Paragus and Broly turns Super Saiyan. We know that when Saiyans rage out into Super Saiyans for the first time, they become extremely rage-fueled and more ferocious when they fight. Combine this with Broly's already uncontrolled Great Ape power, and you have a recipe for disaster. We even see that SS Broly doesn't discriminate, going after Freeza after simply being baited into going after him by Goku and Vegeta despite having not actually done anything that Broly knew of, as well as Whis who was simply in the vicinity that Broly was in.

So, when Broly is fighting Gogeta, he has no sense of self and is effectively mindless, meaning he likely doesn't showcase the kind of combat adaptability that he showed against Vegeta early on and instead relies on raw power and ferocity. A mindless beast is dangerous but easily predicted and countered.

His rage doesnt hinder his fighting, thats your opinion and headcannon, end of debate.

And can you prove that? Basic psychology would tell you that, when someone is out of control on an emotional level, they tend to be unable to properly rationalize and plan out, meaning they act out more on raw emotionally-charged instinct. And when you have a Saiyan who has the raging emotional state of a mindless Great Ape? Not a recipe conducive to proper martial arts save for instinctual skills like with Ultra Instinct.

Broly's moves are predictable and easily countered due to his rage blinding him to more thought-out battle planning. Combine that with Gogeta being equal in strength to him as a Super Saiyan, and you have the recipe for Gogeta to dance all over Broly.

[cantwaitanymore]

Spoiler:

Try and structure things without as much 133t speak and whatnot, will ya?

When the 2 are exchanging blows in classic DB fashion, the two of them demonstrate equal strength during their flurries. As well, SS Gogeta's attacks weren't doing as much damage to SS Ikari Broly as SSB Gogeta was to Full-Power Broly. During the first part of their fight, Broly was able to blow back that huge barrage of Ki blasts that Gogeta fired upon him after the latter had heavily charged it up easily enough and resisted the blasts better than when Gogeta Blue did the same thing against Full-Power Broly. Additionally, the two of them have equal speed throughout the fight, producing after-images and keeping up with each other at relative levels.

In addition to that, the two of them fire their respective blasts at each other and break the dimensional fabric; neither blast overpowers the other, showing that they're relatively even. Finally, Broly IS berserk and can't control himself. Early on when Broly first uses his Oozaru power, Paragus notes that Broly loses all control. Nothing in the overall fight contradicts this notion, and in fact we see that this uncontrollable berserk is ramped up when Freeza kills Paragus and Broly turns Super Saiyan. We know that when Saiyans rage out into Super Saiyans for the first time, they become extremely rage-fueled and more ferocious when they fight. Combine this with Broly's already uncontrolled Great Ape power, and you have a recipe for disaster. We even see that SS Broly doesn't discriminate, going after Freeza after simply being baited into going after him by Goku and Vegeta despite having not actually done anything that Broly knew of, as well as Whis who was simply in the vicinity that Broly was in.

So, when Broly is fighting Gogeta, he has no sense of self and is effectively mindless, meaning he likely doesn't showcase the kind of combat adaptability that he showed against Vegeta early on and instead relies on raw power and ferocity. A mindless beast is dangerous but easily predicted and countered.

His rage doesnt hinder his fighting, thats your opinion and headcannon, end of debate.

And can you prove that? Basic psychology would tell you that, when someone is out of control on an emotional level, they tend to be unable to properly rationalize and plan out, meaning they act out more on raw emotionally-charged instinct. And when you have a Saiyan who has the raging emotional state of a mindless Great Ape? Not a recipe conducive to proper martial arts save for instinctual skills like with Ultra Instinct.

Broly's moves are predictable and easily countered due to his rage blinding him to more thought-out battle planning. Combine that with Gogeta being equal in strength to him as a Super Saiyan, and you have the recipe for Gogeta to dance all over Broly.

Look at Ikari Broly vs Blue Goku. Thats when Broly was a tiny bit weaker in power and it was back and fort. He didnt touch Gogeta. No point in further debating honestly. Nowhere is it stated, hinted or implied that Broly was fighting worse because of his rage. His rage awakens his SSJ. Stop with the bullshit bro.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Spoiler:

His rage doesnt hinder his fighting, thats your opinion and headcannon, end of debate.

And can you prove that? Basic psychology would tell you that, when someone is out of control on an emotional level, they tend to be unable to properly rationalize and plan out, meaning they act out more on raw emotionally-charged instinct. And when you have a Saiyan who has the raging emotional state of a mindless Great Ape? Not a recipe conducive to proper martial arts save for instinctual skills like with Ultra Instinct.

Broly's moves are predictable and easily countered due to his rage blinding him to more thought-out battle planning. Combine that with Gogeta being equal in strength to him as a Super Saiyan, and you have the recipe for Gogeta to dance all over Broly.

Look at Ikari Broly vs Blue Goku. Thats when Broly was a tiny bit weaker in power and it was back and fort. He didnt touch Gogeta. No point in further debating honestly. Nowhere is it stated, hinted or implied that Broly was fighting worse because of his rage. His rage awakens his SSJ. Stop with the bullshit bro.

Never did I say that Broly was fighting WORSE, just differently. He was even more uncontrollable than before, more ferocious in his attacks. But it also means that he fights more predictably. Looking at the choreography, Broly is much more straightforward "POWER THROUGH EVERYTHING!" after turning Super Saiyan compared to beforehand.

Also, nothing indicates that SS Gogeta was stronger, to throw your own logic in your face. SS Broly's never all that damaged throughout the first part of their fight and in fact can quite easily counter Gogeta's moves, such as when he easily powers away Gogeta's barrage of blue Ki blasts with his green aura sphere.

[cantwaitanymore]

And can you prove that? Basic psychology would tell you that, when someone is out of control on an emotional level, they tend to be unable to properly rationalize and plan out, meaning they act out more on raw emotionally-charged instinct. And when you have a Saiyan who has the raging emotional state of a mindless Great Ape? Not a recipe conducive to proper martial arts save for instinctual skills like with Ultra Instinct.

Broly's moves are predictable and easily countered due to his rage blinding him to more thought-out battle planning. Combine that with Gogeta being equal in strength to him as a Super Saiyan, and you have the recipe for Gogeta to dance all over Broly.

Look at Ikari Broly vs Blue Goku. Thats when Broly was a tiny bit weaker in power and it was back and fort. He didnt touch Gogeta. No point in further debating honestly. Nowhere is it stated, hinted or implied that Broly was fighting worse because of his rage. His rage awakens his SSJ. Stop with the bullshit bro.

Never did I say that Broly was fighting WORSE, just differently. He was even more uncontrollable than before, more ferocious in his attacks. But it also means that he fights more predictably. Looking at the choreography, Broly is much more straightforward "POWER THROUGH EVERYTHING!" after turning Super Saiyan compared to beforehand.

Also, nothing indicates that SS Gogeta was stronger, to throw your own logic in your face. SS Broly's never all that damaged throughout the first part of their fight and in fact can quite easily counter Gogeta's moves, such as when he easily powers away Gogeta's barrage of blue Ki blasts with his green aura sphere.

He got hit with so many lmao, he was literally screaming in pain. Broly didnt even stand up until he was about to get hit with blasts. Then he powered up and STILL couldnt do anything. Look at his face expresisons when Gogeta punches if you think they have no effect, his eyes are about to pop out. Anyway thats your opinion that they were equal in strenght, movie says otherwise.
He gets downed in 1 punch and 1 kick, he didnt counter anything dude. Ur reaching hard. Brolys face literally looks like mush and his mouth is wide open when kicked, thats how much they ``didnt do anything`` just like later on when Blue Gogeta nails him in the gut.

AND YES, YOU DID SAY he was LESS SKILLED than GOGETA, and thats why he was losing.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Look at Ikari Broly vs Blue Goku. Thats when Broly was a tiny bit weaker in power and it was back and fort. He didnt touch Gogeta. No point in further debating honestly. Nowhere is it stated, hinted or implied that Broly was fighting worse because of his rage. His rage awakens his SSJ. Stop with the bullshit bro.

Never did I say that Broly was fighting WORSE, just differently. He was even more uncontrollable than before, more ferocious in his attacks. But it also means that he fights more predictably. Looking at the choreography, Broly is much more straightforward "POWER THROUGH EVERYTHING!" after turning Super Saiyan compared to beforehand.

Also, nothing indicates that SS Gogeta was stronger, to throw your own logic in your face. SS Broly's never all that damaged throughout the first part of their fight and in fact can quite easily counter Gogeta's moves, such as when he easily powers away Gogeta's barrage of blue Ki blasts with his green aura sphere.

He got hit with so many lmao, he was literally screaming in pain. Broly didnt even stand up until he was about to get hit with blasts. Then he powered up and STILL couldnt do anything. Look at his face expresisons when Gogeta punches if you think they have no effect, his eyes are about to pop out. Anyway thats your opinion that they were equal in strenght, movie says otherwise.
He gets downed in 1 punch and 1 kick, he didnt counter anything dude. Ur reaching hard. Brolys face literally looks like mush and his mouth is wide open when kicked, thats how much they ``didnt do anything`` just like later on when Blue Gogeta nails him in the gut.

AND YES, YOU DID SAY he was LESS SKILLED than GOGETA, and thats why he was losing.

Common sense says that we interpreted the facts differently and thus have no way to actually gauge who's more correct without authoritarian statements from the creators.

And so what? He IS less skilled than Gogeta. He's berserking, he's only equal in strength at most as a Super Saiyan, and Gogeta is the sum of Goku and Vegeta with none of their usual weaknesses. Despite that, Broly is able to take Gogeta's Ki barrage and diffuse it; the same can't be said for when Gogeta Blue did that against Full-Power Broly. As well, Broly's never hurt as badly as a Super Saiyan against SS Gogeta compared to when he went Full-Power and got absolutely STOMPED by Gogeta Blue; he always bounces back from the blows better than later in the fight. Compared to later on, SS Gogeta only gets a few occasional good shots against SS Broly.

SS Gogeta vs SS Broly is basically a repeat of SSB Goku vs Ikari Broly, except in this case Gogeta is an even better fighter than Goku and Broly is even less in control of his mental faculties. The power difference is nonexistent, but it's clear that Broly is the less effective fighter.

[cantwaitanymore]

Never did I say that Broly was fighting WORSE, just differently. He was even more uncontrollable than before, more ferocious in his attacks. But it also means that he fights more predictably. Looking at the choreography, Broly is much more straightforward "POWER THROUGH EVERYTHING!" after turning Super Saiyan compared to beforehand.

Also, nothing indicates that SS Gogeta was stronger, to throw your own logic in your face. SS Broly's never all that damaged throughout the first part of their fight and in fact can quite easily counter Gogeta's moves, such as when he easily powers away Gogeta's barrage of blue Ki blasts with his green aura sphere.

He got hit with so many lmao, he was literally screaming in pain. Broly didnt even stand up until he was about to get hit with blasts. Then he powered up and STILL couldnt do anything. Look at his face expresisons when Gogeta punches if you think they have no effect, his eyes are about to pop out. Anyway thats your opinion that they were equal in strenght, movie says otherwise.
He gets downed in 1 punch and 1 kick, he didnt counter anything dude. Ur reaching hard. Brolys face literally looks like mush and his mouth is wide open when kicked, thats how much they ``didnt do anything`` just like later on when Blue Gogeta nails him in the gut.

AND YES, YOU DID SAY he was LESS SKILLED than GOGETA, and thats why he was losing.

Common sense says that we interpreted the facts differently and thus have no way to actually gauge who's more correct without authoritarian statements from the creators.

And so what? He IS less skilled than Gogeta. He's berserking, he's only equal in strength at most as a Super Saiyan, and Gogeta is the sum of Goku and Vegeta with none of their usual weaknesses. Despite that, Broly is able to take Gogeta's Ki barrage and diffuse it; the same can't be said for when Gogeta Blue did that against Full-Power Broly. As well, Broly's never hurt as badly as a Super Saiyan against SS Gogeta compared to when he went Full-Power and got absolutely STOMPED by Gogeta Blue; he always bounces back from the blows better than later in the fight. Compared to later on, SS Gogeta only gets a few occasional good shots against SS Broly.

SS Gogeta vs SS Broly is basically a repeat of SSB Goku vs Ikari Broly, except in this case Gogeta is an even better fighter than Goku and Broly is even less in control of his mental faculties. The power difference is nonexistent, but it's clear that Broly is the less effective fighter.

Daym bro, keep up the mental gimnastics . Broly was weaker, ``raging and less skilled`` vs Goku, and pummeled Goku a lot. He didnt touch Gogeta. Stop with the reaching. if you want to believe that i have NO PROBLEM with that, but dont be saying that that way they are equal in power just because you believe Broly was the worse fighter, when something else was shown


Also, once and for all. Broly vs Goku - weaker and according to you less skilled and raging, resullt = pummeled Goku a bunch of times
Broly vs Gogeta - according to you - equal, less skilled and raging, result = didnt land a hit


See how stupid it sounds? If they were equal the fight would be like Broly vs Goku except Broly would land even more.

[SaiyanGod117]

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the multiplier is dramatically higher according to what we've seen. Goku "made the power his own" after he merged with the power of SSG, and ever since that point it has seemingly been a lesser multiplier. And it makes intuitive sense considering that he already, to some extent, "has" that power.

There's nothing concrete to say that, more else due to Super's sketchy writing Goku's power level changes like the wisp of the wind. We don't know how strong his base is at this point; it goes from being weaker than FF Frieza to stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks to stronger than SSG to stronger than SSB to everything in between. Additionally, fusion must have been retconned, since before Goku implied a fusion wouldn't be a match for heavily suppressed Beerus. Whereas, now we see a fusion of two far weaker characters far exceed the power of SSG in base and approach God of Destruction level in SSJ2.

Why are we taking anime as canon? Kefla in manga and Kefla in anime astronomically different. Anime is incosistent even to itself, let alone to the manga. Even anime ditched the concept of Goku absorbing his SSG. I mean people hang about the quote from BoG movie, but Goku was reffering to Potara probably as Vegeta doesnt know Fusion (until know). I mean there are a lot of statements from that movie that dont corespond with todays events, like Beerus using 70% of his full power. They were just getting started and getting the hang of the whole DBS universe, so it was bound to have a lot of mistakes.

Also and most importantly the bullshit headcanon that base fusions are strongest forms x 10 or more is bullshit, proven in the manga by Fused Zamasu = PSSB Goku and SSJ Kefla = Gohan.
Its also proven in the DBZ manga, as Gotenks after 1hour of outside time = 15 days of inside time in RoSat got stronger in his base form than he was previously in his SSJ form. So STOP with that bullshit.

Who are you replying to? Are you replying to the right person?

[cantwaitanymore]

There's nothing concrete to say that, more else due to Super's sketchy writing Goku's power level changes like the wisp of the wind. We don't know how strong his base is at this point; it goes from being weaker than FF Frieza to stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks to stronger than SSG to stronger than SSB to everything in between. Additionally, fusion must have been retconned, since before Goku implied a fusion wouldn't be a match for heavily suppressed Beerus. Whereas, now we see a fusion of two far weaker characters far exceed the power of SSG in base and approach God of Destruction level in SSJ2.

Why are we taking anime as canon? Kefla in manga and Kefla in anime astronomically different. Anime is incosistent even to itself, let alone to the manga. Even anime ditched the concept of Goku absorbing his SSG. I mean people hang about the quote from BoG movie, but Goku was reffering to Potara probably as Vegeta doesnt know Fusion (until know). I mean there are a lot of statements from that movie that dont corespond with todays events, like Beerus using 70% of his full power. They were just getting started and getting the hang of the whole DBS universe, so it was bound to have a lot of mistakes.

Also and most importantly the bullshit headcanon that base fusions are strongest forms x 10 or more is bullshit, proven in the manga by Fused Zamasu = PSSB Goku and SSJ Kefla = Gohan.
Its also proven in the DBZ manga, as Gotenks after 1hour of outside time = 15 days of inside time in RoSat got stronger in his base form than he was previously in his SSJ form. So STOP with that bullshit.

Who are you replying to? Are you replying to the right person?

to your post obviously

[Gogeta_Blue]

Spoiler:

His rage doesnt hinder his fighting, thats your opinion and headcannon, end of debate.

And can you prove that? Basic psychology would tell you that, when someone is out of control on an emotional level, they tend to be unable to properly rationalize and plan out, meaning they act out more on raw emotionally-charged instinct. And when you have a Saiyan who has the raging emotional state of a mindless Great Ape? Not a recipe conducive to proper martial arts save for instinctual skills like with Ultra Instinct.

Broly's moves are predictable and easily countered due to his rage blinding him to more thought-out battle planning. Combine that with Gogeta being equal in strength to him as a Super Saiyan, and you have the recipe for Gogeta to dance all over Broly.

. He didnt touch Gogeta. .

SSJ Broly hit SSJ Gogeta three times. One immediately after Gogeta turned SSJ (Gogeta wasn't ready for this one so it's moot), and two a few seconds before the reality-breaking beam clash (the last one sent Gogeta flying backwards).

[cantwaitanymore]

And can you prove that? Basic psychology would tell you that, when someone is out of control on an emotional level, they tend to be unable to properly rationalize and plan out, meaning they act out more on raw emotionally-charged instinct. And when you have a Saiyan who has the raging emotional state of a mindless Great Ape? Not a recipe conducive to proper martial arts save for instinctual skills like with Ultra Instinct.

Broly's moves are predictable and easily countered due to his rage blinding him to more thought-out battle planning. Combine that with Gogeta being equal in strength to him as a Super Saiyan, and you have the recipe for Gogeta to dance all over Broly.

. He didnt touch Gogeta. .

SSJ Broly hit SSJ Gogeta three times. One immediately after Gogeta turned SSJ (Gogeta wasn't ready for this one so it's moot), and two a few seconds before the reality-breaking beam clash (the last one sent Gogeta flying backwards).

if you read the breakdown i wrote, you would see that i wrote them down, and all of them were blocked with both hands from Gogeta in the X pose. First hit he got was when he went FPSSJ vs SSJ Gogeta. Watched in slow mo multiple times.

[SaiyanGod117]

to your post obviously

Oh, I couldn't tell your post was all over the place.

Why are we taking anime as canon? Kefla in manga and Kefla in anime astronomically different. Anime is incosistent even to itself, let alone to the manga.

Because it's the official continuation while manga is promotional material.

I mean people hang about the quote from BoG movie, but Goku was reffering to Potara probably as Vegeta doesnt know Fusion (until know). I mean there are a lot of statements from that movie that dont corespond with todays events. They were just getting started and getting the hang of the whole DBS universe, so it was bound to have a lot of mistakes.

Toriyama clarified that Vegito and Gogeta are both equal in strength, so it wouldn't matter which fusion Goku would have chosen. Also, Goku's statement about Potara being no match for Beerus was kept in the anime, unlike the 70% line which was cut out.

Also and most importantly the bullshit headcanon that base fusions are strongest forms x 10 or more is bullshit, proven in the manga by Fused Zamasu = PSSB Goku and SSJ Kefla = Gohan.
Its also proven in the DBZ manga, as Gotenks after 1hour of outside time = 15 days of inside time in RoSat got stronger in his base form than he was previously in his SSJ form. So STOP with that bullshit

Did you read any further down? I'm the one who said fusion was Base •Base, so I agree with you.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

You know, with the fan theory that the base of a Fusion ends up as strong as the strongest form both fusees can attain, assuming they're both Saiyans, it'd also explain why Gotenks isn't so vastly powerful compared to Gogeta and Vegito.

Goten and Trunks, together, can only attain Super Saiyan, so maybe Gotenks in base form is equal to that. Meanwhile, back when Vegito showed up, he must've been AT LEAST as strong as SS2 Goku and Vegeta, maybe even SS3 if it's possible that Vegeta had the potential for that form as well.

Now, SSB is the highest level that Goku and Vegeta both can attain without additional power-ups that are exclusive to each other, so base Gogeta/Vegito ends up as strong as that.

Of course, this is all assuming that the fan theory holds up.

[TheNingen]

He got hit with so many lmao, he was literally screaming in pain. Broly didnt even stand up until he was about to get hit with blasts. Then he powered up and STILL couldnt do anything. Look at his face expresisons when Gogeta punches if you think they have no effect, his eyes are about to pop out. Anyway thats your opinion that they were equal in strenght, movie says otherwise.
He gets downed in 1 punch and 1 kick, he didnt counter anything dude. Ur reaching hard. Brolys face literally looks like mush and his mouth is wide open when kicked, thats how much they ``didnt do anything`` just like later on when Blue Gogeta nails him in the gut.

AND YES, YOU DID SAY he was LESS SKILLED than GOGETA, and thats why he was losing.

Common sense says that we interpreted the facts differently and thus have no way to actually gauge who's more correct without authoritarian statements from the creators.

And so what? He IS less skilled than Gogeta. He's berserking, he's only equal in strength at most as a Super Saiyan, and Gogeta is the sum of Goku and Vegeta with none of their usual weaknesses. Despite that, Broly is able to take Gogeta's Ki barrage and diffuse it; the same can't be said for when Gogeta Blue did that against Full-Power Broly. As well, Broly's never hurt as badly as a Super Saiyan against SS Gogeta compared to when he went Full-Power and got absolutely STOMPED by Gogeta Blue; he always bounces back from the blows better than later in the fight. Compared to later on, SS Gogeta only gets a few occasional good shots against SS Broly.

SS Gogeta vs SS Broly is basically a repeat of SSB Goku vs Ikari Broly, except in this case Gogeta is an even better fighter than Goku and Broly is even less in control of his mental faculties. The power difference is nonexistent, but it's clear that Broly is the less effective fighter.

Daym bro, keep up the mental gimnastics . Broly was weaker, ``raging and less skilled`` vs Goku, and pummeled Goku a lot. He didnt touch Gogeta. Stop with the reaching. if you want to believe that i have NO PROBLEM with that, but dont be saying that that way they are equal in power just because you believe Broly was the worse fighter, when something else was shown


Also, once and for all. Broly vs Goku - weaker and according to you less skilled and raging, resullt = pummeled Goku a bunch of times
Broly vs Gogeta - according to you - equal, less skilled and raging, result = didnt land a hit


See how stupid it sounds? If they were equal the fight would be like Broly vs Goku except Broly would land even more.

You need to stop with the needless antagonism and insults. If you cannot conduct yourself in a mature and controlled manner, you have no business being on a debate thread, especially when those you are debating are being respectful and not resorting to personal insults or attacks. Stow your condescending demeanor.

Also, Cozy, I'd assume that Vegetto in Base during Buu Saga would be stronger than SS3 Goku and SS2 Vegeta considering the struggles they had against Kid Buu using the form. And Buuhan is stronger than Kid Buu. And Vegetto massacred Buuhan in SS.

[Hugo Boss]

Exactly. Some people have claimed the anime didn’t got right the boost of a fusion, since SSG was supposed to be a realm beyond that. Turned out it was the opposite.

But you said the anime was more accurate, so I asked why. Saying all of them are accurate, or one is more accurate than the other, are two different things.

I never said that.

[Amir]

I think that in terms of strength, FPSSJ Broly and SSJB Gogeta were relative. Notice how Gogeta made sure to dodge Broly's blasts, and also there was no scenario in which Gogeta overpowered Broly's own power. Gogeta was simply much faster, much more agile, sane and a much better fighter.

I also think that as the fight went on, Broly fought worse and worse, only charging like a mindless beast, he had very minimal control over his power.

But as far as pure strength goes, I didn't get the impression Gogeta had much of an advantage, based on the choreography.

[PFM18]

There's nothing concrete to say that

I mean, there's hardly anything concrete for anything. But the evidence is piling up pretty high at this point.

-Goku goes SSG against Caulifla and Kale, starts dominating him, but doesn't instantly one shot them like Jiren does to Maji Kayo or Vegeta did Frost, Tagoma, etc etc. It most certainly doesn't appear to be another realm of power like it was in BoG. Had it been the same boost, he would have instantly one shot them and been able to tank all of their attacks.
-Goku's SSG is inferior to a Base fusion, when that wasn't the case in BoG. In other words, we saw that SSG>>potara and now we see that potara>>SSG
-Ikari Broly is 10x Base, and yet this boost was able to help him bridge the gap between SSJ->SSG, and that wouldn't be possible if it was the same boost.

And there's really no holes in this because SSG hasn't been portrayed as that strong since BoG itself, so there's no contradiction here. And again, it makes a lot of intuitive sense considering that Goku has already merged with the power of SSG, so using it again shouldn't give the same boost.

it goes from being weaker than FF Frieza to stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks to stronger than SSG to stronger than SSB to everything in between.

Well, he's never portrayed as stronger than SSG or stronger than SSB in Base, so I'm not sure why you say that. Nor is he ever portrayed as "everything in between." He was below Namek Freeza, then the absorption scene happened, and he was able to entertain Beerus in battle, fodderize SSJ3 Gotenks, fight a vastly improved Good Buu in Base, and his equal, Base Vegeta was able to destroy the entire ROSAT just from powering up inside it, where as Super Buu could only manage to tear a small hole in it. We never really see any divergence from Goku just being extremely strong in his Base form.

Additionally, fusion must have been retconned, since before Goku implied a fusion wouldn't be a match for heavily suppressed Beerus. Whereas, now we see a fusion of two far weaker characters far exceed the power of SSG in base and approach God of Destruction level in SSJ2.

I think the most logical conclusion is that in terms of multipliers: SSG(post-ritual)>>>>>>SSG(pre-ritual) rather than just kind of assuming that fusion has been retconned.

[ssj3kakarot]

I think that in terms of strength, FPSSJ Broly and SSJB Gogeta were relative. Notice how Gogeta made sure to dodge Broly's blasts, and also there was no scenario in which Gogeta overpowered Broly's own power. Gogeta was simply much faster, much more agile, sane and a much better fighter.

I also think that as the fight went on, Broly fought worse and worse, only charging like a mindless beast, he had very minimal control over his power.

But as far as pure strength goes, I didn't get the impression Gogeta had much of an advantage, based on the choreography.

I'm getting the impression that you didnt watch the movie if that is the conclusion you came to. Broly was terrified of Gogeta at the end of battle ( via facial expressions as our visual cue). I personally didn't like to see his character display terror, but Broly was drastically weaker than Gogeta.

Edit: By that logic, Whis and Broly are relative in power because Whis didn't tank any of Brolys attacks. But we ALL know that Whis is a slaughter house of power compared to Broly, even a SSB Gogeta would get laughed at by Whis. But we don't need to see him tank a punch to come to that conclusion.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I think that in terms of strength, FPSSJ Broly and SSJB Gogeta were relative. Notice how Gogeta made sure to dodge Broly's blasts, and also there was no scenario in which Gogeta overpowered Broly's own power. Gogeta was simply much faster, much more agile, sane and a much better fighter.

I also think that as the fight went on, Broly fought worse and worse, only charging like a mindless beast, he had very minimal control over his power.

But as far as pure strength goes, I didn't get the impression Gogeta had much of an advantage, based on the choreography.

I'm getting the impression that you didnt watch the movie if that is the conclusion you came to. Broly was terrified of Gogeta at the end of battle ( via facial expressions as our visual cue). I personally didn't like to see his character display terror, but Broly was drastically weaker than Gogeta.

The protagonists hardly ever take attacks when they're stronger most of the time anyways. They tend to not be the kind to want to tank attacks, even if they technically could.