The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Perfect]

I completely disagree with those numbers, but that's a fair argument, unlike saying he couldn't just because he wouldn't be able to maintain it well enough; 'specially seeing that it's even more arbitrary than everything I've wrote.

Plus your math doesn't work very well, seeing that Cell even just as strong as Dabra would have an offshoot above 2,000 with x20, seeing that he'd be 3.33 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku. Also factor in how much stronger Goku is than Dabra and where the power gains would actually make sense. Plus, I highly doubt SSJ Gotenks >= SSJ3 Goku, but to each his own.

[Saiga]

I completely disagree with those numbers, but that's a fair argument, unlike saying he couldn't just because he wouldn't be able to maintain it well enough; 'specially seeing that it's even more arbitrary than everything I've wrote.

The reason I originally said he wouldn't be able to maintain Kaio-ken was that I believed that the KK10/KK20 was said to be the maximum Kaio-ken sustainable/possible, but after looking at Hermes' strength checker I saw that that's not what the quote meant at all.

I think there would be some upper limit to how high the Kaio-ken multiplier goes, regardless of how strong one gets.

Plus your math doesn't work very well, seeing that Cell even just as strong as Dabra would have an offshoot above 2,000 with x20, seeing that he'd be 3.33 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku. Also factor in how much stronger Goku is than Dabra and where the power gains would actually make sense. Plus, I highly doubt SSJ Gotenks >= SSJ3 Goku.

I'm not sure where I made a mistake in my math, what do you mean?

[Perfect]

I completely disagree with those numbers, but that's a fair argument, unlike saying he couldn't just because he wouldn't be able to maintain it well enough; 'specially seeing that it's even more arbitrary than everything I've wrote.

The reason I originally said he wouldn't be able to maintain Kaio-ken was that I believed that the KK10/KK20 was said to be the maximum Kaio-ken sustainable/possible, but after looking at Hermes' strength checker I saw that that's not what the quote meant at all.

What quote exactly?

I'm not sure where I made a mistake in my math, what do you mean?

I'll condense my post on the other page a bit.
*4,000/3,000 kiri
*Dabra is 1.33 times stronger than SSJ Goku.
*SSJ2 Goku's battle power would be 15,000, making him 1.5 times stronger than Dabra
*This makes SSJ3 Goku 6 times stronger than Dabra, which you could have also figured out by multiplying 1.5 and 4.
*So if Cell's battle power is 10,000, then the Kaio-ken x 20 would put him at 200,000; that's 3.33 times stronger than SS3 Goku.

20 x100 = 2,000
3.33 x720 = 2,397.6

Goku's battle power should be around 600. You have Gohan at about 4.86 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku, which is feasible and still possible for Cell to be around depending on where you place Gohan's kiri level. Though having him 10.41 isn't too crazy, it's just I don't see it as very possible, about as much as Cell's 19.95, which can't be seeing that'd make him stronger than SSJ2 Goku, which we know he isn't.

[Saiga]

What quote exactly?

This one here:

Chapter: 312 (DBZ 118), P14.2-5
Tenshinhan: "There’s nothing to worry about. Goku will win this match…Aren't you forgetting about the Kaio-Ken? As he is now, Goku is able to endure a maximum of up to about 10 times his power, right?"
Kaio: "Unfortunately... That Ten-Fold Kaio-Ken is what Goku is using now..."

It's just a comment about Goku's current limit at using the Kaio-ken but before I had seen the original quote other people had lead me to believe that Tenshinhan was talking about the actual maximum Kaio-ken that could be used.

I'll condense my post on the other page a bit.
*4,000/3,000 kiri
*Dabra is 1.33 times stronger than SSJ Goku.
*SSJ2 Goku's battle power would be 15,000, making him 1.5 times stronger than Dabra
*This makes SSJ3 Goku 6 times stronger than Dabra, which you could have also figured out by multiplying 1.5 and 4.
*So if Cell's battle power is 10,000, then the Kaio-ken x 20 would put him at 200,000; that's 3.33 times stronger than SS3 Goku.

20 x100 = 2,000
3.33 x720 = 2,397.6

Goku's battle power should be around 600.

Oooh yeah I didn't include Dabra's 4000 because it's anime only and doesn't seem to really fit well with the manga.

[Perfect]

Actually Dabra's "over" 4,000 kiri, just like Goku's Saiyan arc battle power is over 8,000! Though I'm not exactly sure how the 4,000 doesn't fit in line with the manga? If anything comes off as contradictory, it's the whole, "200-300 could destroy the planet stuff" about kiri, but that's also in Daiz. 7. I probably should have included numbers above 4,000 in my post, oh well. (Though that'd be way more work then I'm willing to put in all together -- it'd mean I'd have to make over 12 sets of numbers just for Cell on SSJ Gohan, and then another 12 for SSJ2 Gohan).

I really can't think of anything Dabra's kiri would contradict, unless you're referring to your numbers... which would contradict the anime, as opposed to the anime contradicting the manga.

[Saiga]

Actually Dabra's "over" 4,000 kiri, just like Goku's Saiyan arc battle power is over 8,000! Though I'm not exactly sure how the 4,000 doesn't fit in line with the manga? If anything comes off as contradictory, it's the whole, "200-300 could destroy the planet stuff" about kiri, but that's also in Daiz. 7. I probably should have included numbers above 4,000 in my post, oh well. (Though that'd be way more work then I'm willing to put in all together -- it'd mean I'd have to make over 12 sets of numbers just for Cell on SSJ Gohan, and then another 12 for SSJ2 Gohan).

I really can't think of anything Dabra's kiri would contradict, unless you're referring to your numbers... which would contradict the anime, as opposed to the anime contradicting the manga.

I know it doesn't contradict the manga, but the idea that Dabra is stronger than SS Goku doesn't seem fit well seeing as Goku and Vegeta weren't impressed by him and Gohan wasn't using SS2 against him.

[Perfect]

Actually Dabra's "over" 4,000 kiri, just like Goku's Saiyan arc battle power is over 8,000! Though I'm not exactly sure how the 4,000 doesn't fit in line with the manga? If anything comes off as contradictory, it's the whole, "200-300 could destroy the planet stuff" about kiri, but that's also in Daiz. 7. I probably should have included numbers above 4,000 in my post, oh well. (Though that'd be way more work then I'm willing to put in all together -- it'd mean I'd have to make over 12 sets of numbers just for Cell on SSJ Gohan, and then another 12 for SSJ2 Gohan).

I really can't think of anything Dabra's kiri would contradict, unless you're referring to your numbers... which would contradict the anime, as opposed to the anime contradicting the manga.

I know it doesn't contradict the manga, but the idea that Dabra is stronger than SS Goku doesn't seem fit well seeing as Goku and Vegeta weren't impressed by him and Gohan wasn't using SS2 against him.

That's an interesting theory, but how do we know Dabra wasn't holding back? Plus, couldn't Gohan being SSJ (which is debatable, but that seems to me what he is) just be the result of him either being SSJ2 prior at the start of the fight and getting worn out, or simply just not wanting to risk giving Boo energy? I guess what you're saying is possible, if we take Dabra's battle power as being the same as Cell's before his failed suicide.

[Saiga]

That's an interesting theory, but how do we know Dabra wasn't holding back? Plus, couldn't Gohan being SSJ (which is debatable, but that seems to me what he is) just be the result of him either being SSJ2 prior at the start of the fight and getting worn out, or simply just not wanting to risk giving Boo energy? I guess what you're saying is possible, if we take Dabra's battle power as being the same as Cell's before his failed suicide.

That's a good point about him holding back, but unless he could suppress his ki Goku and Vegeta would know he's stronger than him as Super Saiyans. I would find it weird if he could suppress his ki, but it's not impossible. It doesn't make sense for him to hold back when he's trying to inflict as much damage as possible.

[Fox666]

Actually Dabra's "over" 4,000 kiri, just like Goku's Saiyan arc battle power is over 8,000! Though I'm not exactly sure how the 4,000 doesn't fit in line with the manga? If anything comes off as contradictory, it's the whole, "200-300 could destroy the planet stuff" about kiri, but that's also in Daiz. 7. I probably should have included numbers above 4,000 in my post, oh well. (Though that'd be way more work then I'm willing to put in all together -- it'd mean I'd have to make over 12 sets of numbers just for Cell on SSJ Gohan, and then another 12 for SSJ2 Gohan).

I really can't think of anything Dabra's kiri would contradict, unless you're referring to your numbers... which would contradict the anime, as opposed to the anime contradicting the manga.

Technically this is the anime line: Whether 3,000 kiri or even 4,000 kiri, there’s nobody in the entire world who can win against my power.”

Of course it's entirely possible that 3,000 are not Goku's maximum power, and his true Kiri value is 10,000. When it comes to Kiri, we don't have confirmation of anything.

[Angelus]

Mystic Gogeta (No fusion time limit) VS SSJ3 Vegito (Buu Saga)

No blowing up of planets.

[Saiga]

Gogeta stomps.

[Kaboom]

No good way to tell, I think. We can't really know for sure how much of an effect the Old Kaioshin's ritual would have on Goku and Vegeta, or how that might affect a Fusion between them. Gogeta's too much of an unknown factor to fairly compare him to anyone else, much less Vegetto.

[Saiga]

Here's an... odd one:

SS4 Boo saga Goku vs Super Boo.

SS3 Goku was clearly scared shitless of him, and U. Gohan should theoretically be stronger than Goku regardless of what transformation he gets, so would it be enough to take down Super Boo?

[Fox666]

It depends on how strong you think the Super Saiyan 4 is.

The most logical approach for the Golden Oozaru is that it is 10 times stronger than the regular Super Saiyan transformation, which is not much different from Super Saiyan 3. Is Super Saiyan 4 supposed to be stronger than Golden Oozaru, or just a controlled state of it?

[Michelle91]

Bebi Vegeta in his 3rd form vs. Super Perfect Cell (equal battle power). Both are artificial life forms that tend to act overconfident in battle, who wins?

[Angelus]

What if the Supreme Kais somehow found out about the Potara Earring fusion and had no choice but to use it against Kid Buu. I just put in Kibito for the heck of it, because there would be one Supreme Kai with no fusion partner.

All we know is that all the other Supreme Kais (Kibito is no included of course) are more powerful than Eastern Supreme Kai. And although it is debatable, Eastern Supreme Kai a.k.a "Shin" might be more powerful than World Tournament Saga Kamiccolo. Also debatable, Kibito might be more powerful than Base Gohan (World Tournament Saga). Even if Supreme Kai and Kibito aren't as powerful as those statements, just assume they are just for this versus.

Kid Buu VS

Potara Fusion: Grand Supreme Kai and Southern Supreme Kai
Potara Fusion: Northern Supreme Kai and Western Supreme Kai
Potara Fusion: Eastern Supreme Kai and Kibito (the Kibito Kai in the series)

No absorptions. No blowing up of planets. No candy beam. No interference from Bibidi.

[Fox666]

Cell might be able to defeat Baby Vegeta because of his regeneration ability.

The Potara should make the Kaioshin at least tens of times stronger, so I think they could defeat the Pure Majin Boo. And Kaioshin-Kibito fusion was afraid of the Pure Majin Boo, so he would be of no use.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Mystic Gogeta (No fusion time limit) VS SSJ3 Vegito (Buu Saga)

No blowing up of planets.

Well, as I think that Vegetto was only slightly stronger than Gogeta, and Gohan becoming "Mystic" allowed him to surpass even SS3 Gotenks, I believe that "Mystic" Gogeta would edge a victory.

SS4 Boo saga Goku vs Super Boo.

SS3 Goku was clearly scared shitless of him, and U. Gohan should theoretically be stronger than Goku regardless of what transformation he gets, so would it be enough to take down Super Boo?

Well, I have SS2 as being a x100 multiplier and SS3 as being a x200, so SS4 would be probably be a x400 (to fit in with doubling the power each time) or x500 (SS's x50 x Oozaru's x10 = x500). Either way, I think he'd end up considerably stronger than Super Boo, so yes, it would be enough to take him down.

[FNF]

Sauzer aka 'Dat French guy' vs Krillin(at Freeza battle), Gohan(at Freeza battle) and Piccolo (post Kaio's, pre merge) aka 'A trio of secondary characters'.

I personally place Sauzer above 1st form Freeza at least because i'm pretty sure he makes a comment suggesting he could at least defeat one of Freeza's forms and he put up a decent[ish] fight against Piccolo using his hand-ki-blade-thing but could the others manage something?

[Piccolo Daimao]

I personally place Sauzer above 1st form Freeza at least because i'm pretty sure he makes a comment suggesting he could at least defeat one of Freeza's forms

Source, please? I don't recall this. And, I know it's a movie, but I'd find it a bit strange that one of Coola's henchmen would be stronger than the widely-accepted "strongest in the universe".