Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

Didn't something recently suggest that Vegito and Gogeta had the same strength? Merged Zamasu wasn't really all that far off from Super Saiyan Blue Vegito and I suppose Broly wasn't all that far off from Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta.

So unless Goku and Vegeta became dramatically more powerful since the Future Trunks saga and people seem to be a bit back and forth on that, then there shouldn't be a vast amount in it.

It was a preview for the movie that called Vegetto and Gogeta "Equally matched trumps card" or something similar to that.

That proved the they didn't get significant stronger since the Black arc because Piccolo states in the Boo arc that "Small gains make a stronger fusion" and I don't think SSB Gogeta is that much stronger than Beerus who Vegetto was on par.

[ZombieVito]

Double post.

[ssj3kakarot]

Didn't something recently suggest that Vegito and Gogeta had the same strength? Merged Zamasu wasn't really all that far off from Super Saiyan Blue Vegito and I suppose Broly wasn't all that far off from Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta.

So unless Goku and Vegeta became dramatically more powerful since the Future Trunks saga and people seem to be a bit back and forth on that, then there shouldn't be a vast amount in it.

It was a preview for the movie that called Vegetto and Gogeta "Equally matched trumps card" or something similar to that.

That proved the they didn't get significant stronger since the Black arc because Piccolo states in the Boo arc that "Small gains make a stronger fusion" and I don't think SSB Gogeta is that much stronger than Beerus who Vegetto was on par.

I think you missed the point. It didn't prove that they didn't get significantly stronger, which they have received significant gains. The point was that Vegetto and Gogeta at any given time would be near equals in power. Not that Vegetto(trucks saga) is = to Gogetta (Broly movie).

[ZombieVito]

I think you missed the point. It didn't prove that they didn't get significantly stronger, which they have received significant gains. The point was that Vegetto and Gogeta at any given time would be near equals in power. Not that Vegetto(trucks saga) is = to Gogetta (Broly movie).

I never said this.

[PFM18]

That proved the they didn't get significant stronger since the Black arc because Piccolo states in the Boo arc that "Small gains make a stronger fusion" and I don't think SSB Gogeta is that much stronger than Beerus who Vegetto was on par.

How does that prove anything? Vegetto was only on par with Beerus in the manga, in the anime Merged Zamasu was a joke to Jiren who is relative to Blue Vegetto.

[Bullza]

Perhaps Super Saiyan Blue Vegito is also on par with Beerus in the anime and Merged Zamasu wasn't all that far off from Beerus.

Jiren then being considerably stronger than all three. It fits with him being above a God of Destruction.

[ZombieVito]

How does that prove anything? Vegetto was only on par with Beerus in the manga, in the anime Merged Zamasu was a joke to Jiren who is relative to Blue Vegetto.

Toriyama has corrected manga's lines before. That power statement is to big to left in if it wasn't true in general.

[PFM18]

How does that prove anything? Vegetto was only on par with Beerus in the manga, in the anime Merged Zamasu was a joke to Jiren who is relative to Blue Vegetto.

Toriyama has corrected manga's lines before. That power statement is to big to left in if it wasn't true in general.

It only appeared in the manga, and is 100% without a doubt not relevant to the anime. They are separate products. Things being left "too big to leave in" doesn't even apply because it's perfectly fine within the context of the manga.

Hell, if it was true in the anime, the line would also be in the anime. It's that simple. You can't just use statements from the other medium and apply them.

[ZombieVito]

It only appeared in the manga, and is 100% without a doubt not relevant to the anime. They are separate products. Things being left "too big to leave in" doesn't even apply because it's perfectly fine within the context of the manga.

Hell, if it was true in the anime, the line would also be in the anime. It's that simple. You can't just use statements from the other medium and apply them.

Separate products sure but they come from the same source (Toriyama).

The manga chapter came after the episode. Toyotaro likely ran by Toriyama Vegetto's strength and that was left in.

[PFM18]

It only appeared in the manga, and is 100% without a doubt not relevant to the anime. They are separate products. Things being left "too big to leave in" doesn't even apply because it's perfectly fine within the context of the manga.

Hell, if it was true in the anime, the line would also be in the anime. It's that simple. You can't just use statements from the other medium and apply them.

Separate products sure but they come from the same source (Toriyama).

The manga chapter came after the episode. Toyotaro likely ran by Toriyama Vegetto's strength and that was left in.

No, only the script comes from the same source. They are ultimately different stories and different products that can't just be thrown in there. The script is not a story in and of themselves, if one of the mediums decide to do something, and he approves it, then it doesn't mean that also applies to the other medium. That's asinine.

If we are going to play that game, then Goku was also impressed with Trunks surpassing Cell Games Kid Gohan in the anime, Base Goku is also stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks in the manga, his SSJ is also stronger than his SSG was during BoG, etc etc.

[ZombieVito]

Goku mentioned Gohan because that was the strongest guy Trunks knew. I don't see the issue.

Base Goku is confirmed to be stronger than Shin in the manga so I see no contradiction with having him be stronger than Gotenks too.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Goku mentioned Gohan because that was the strongest guy Trunks knew. I don't see the issue.

Base Goku is confirmed to be stronger than Shin in the manga so I see no contradiction with having him be stronger than Gotenks too.

Also, everyone at the level of Kaioshin was knocked out in that bout.

We have to remember that some Kaioshin can be REALLY strong. Grand Kaioshin, for example, was enough that Pure Buu had to absorb him. And that was AFTER he gave up a lot of power against Moro, as revealed recently.

[Hugo Boss]

Base Goku is confirmed to be stronger than Shin in the manga

If you are talking about Goku resisting Rumoomshi’s roar without fainting, that thing stunned even the Gods of Destruction. Goku resisted because his inner strength was much close to the Gods of Destruction than to the Kaioshins, not simply because his regular form was strong. If Goku wasn’t at god level, the same thing that happened to the Kaioshins would happen to him.

[Hulk10]

It would be interesting to see how Broly would fair during the tournament of power.

[PFM18]

Goku mentioned Gohan because that was the strongest guy Trunks knew. I don't see the issue.

Base Goku is confirmed to be stronger than Shin in the manga so I see no contradiction with having him be stronger than Gotenks too.

Gohan was treated as a significant milestone is the point. In the anime, surpassing SSJ2 Gohan is not even notable, nobody even needs SSJ to do that. That's why the line wasn't said in the anime.

....as if being stronger than Kaioshin means you're also stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks? They're literally magnitudes apart, that's ridiculous. In the manga, they are portrayed as being of similar power to the Buu arc.

The "absorption" scene appears in the anime but not the manga, AKA Goku's SSJ is stated stronger than BoG SSG.

It's just completely irrational to apply them to each other.

[Bullza]

Where do people rank Trunks with the Spirit Sword compared to the rest of the cast?

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Where do people rank Trunks with the Spirit Sword compared to the rest of the cast?

Just as strong as he was before. It was the Genkidama Sword that was doing the hard work.

[Bullza]

Just as strong as he was before. It was the Genkidama Sword that was doing the hard work.

The Spirit Sword was an extension of his own power though. He absorbed the power of the "Spirit Bomb" along with Goku and Vegeta's power and then he turned that power into a sword. Just as he'd done moments earlier with the golden sword.

So even if he hadn't created the sword specifically, he would have still had all that power welling inside him anyway.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Just as strong as he was before. It was the Genkidama Sword that was doing the hard work.

The Spirit Sword was an extension of his own power though. He absorbed the power of the "Spirit Bomb" along with Goku and Vegeta's power and then he turned that power into a sword. Just as he'd done moments earlier with the golden sword.

So even if he hadn't created the sword specifically, he would have still had all that power welling inside him anyway.

I didn't see it that way when I watched.

I saw him merely knowing how to channel that immense power. Not everything's a matter of strength, after all.

[GodVegetto91]

Aside from the book what else suggests it? Just from what was given directly in universe, if Broly is stronger than Jiren then how is he only probably stronger than Beerus?

Wouldn't that also suggest that Jiren is weaker than Beerus despite several different things saying he was stronger than a God of Destruction?

Jiren was a match for a Goku who had mastered Ultra Instinct which Beerus himself had not. Doesn't seem like he'd probably be stronger than Beerus, he almost surely was.

https://imgur.com/gallery/ofL4PiO
"The strongest enemy ever invades Earth"
https://twitter.com/DBSuperFrance/statu ... 3068466177
"Frankly, the enemy Goku and co. are up against in this movie is the strongest. Those who trust Goku will win may lose confidence, so be careful." quote from Saikyo Jump
The title of the trailer where Gogeta and Broly fight is: "Strongest vs strongest"
In the first interview they asked Toriyama about Broly, he says: "There's nothing cooler than being the strongest."
https://imgur.com/gallery/ek0Z4Ne
Goku's caption here, is translated as ""I've never seen such an amazing opponent... S-so strong! Beaten up by the strongest ever, Broly."
Other alternative transalations call it "most powerful in history" rather than "strongest ever."

This is all in addition to the Light Novel explicitly acknowledging Broly as the strongest, too. So that makes six pieces of material that assert that Broly is the strongest foe that Goku has ever fought.

No, it wouldn't necessarily suggest that Jiren is weaker than Beerus, no. You're reading too much into the word "probably" being used.

What light novel? Which statement was made in there regarding Broly’s strength? Do you have the quote?