Vic Mignogna

[TheBlackPaladin]

Part of anime’s initial appeal in the west from the START was how it could be super violent, sexual, and rapey.

That's news to me. If that's what they see in anime then they've been wasting their time as the medium has so much more to offer.

Heh that’s why I emphasized from the start. I’m just saying much of the stuff in video stores back in the day were the violent, dark stuff you couldn’t see in American animation. Your Akira, your Vampire Hunter D, your Wicked City, Ninja Scroll, etc. We have much more variety now to be sure. I probably should have said “edgy” instead in fairness.

Aside from the "rapey" part, I agree. In the west, we're told that animation is strictly a kids thing (although that's slowly changing), whereas in Japan, they believe anime can be for anybody, and have anime movies/OVAs/TV shows for every age group, from the super-safe-for-little-kids to the...well, decidedly-not-safe-at-all-for-little-kids.

[XanatosVanBadass]

That's news to me. If that's what they see in anime then they've been wasting their time as the medium has so much more to offer.

Heh that’s why I emphasized from the start. I’m just saying much of the stuff in video stores back in the day were the violent, dark stuff you couldn’t see in American animation. Your Akira, your Vampire Hunter D, your Wicked City, Ninja Scroll, etc. We have much more variety now to be sure. I probably should have said “edgy” instead in fairness.

Aside from the "rapey" part, I agree. In the west, we're told that animation is strictly a kids thing (although that's slowly changing), whereas in Japan, they believe anime can be for anybody, and have anime movies/OVAs/TV shows for every age group, from the super-safe-for-little-kids to the...well, decidedly-not-safe-at-all-for-little-kids.

Yeah, I think the rapey part came out harsher than intended. I didn’t mean fans back then were looking for rape in anime, more they loved that anime wasn’t afraid to “go there” so to speak. As I said, edgy would have been a better word to use.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Yeah, I think the rapey part came out harsher than intended. I didn’t mean fans back then were looking for rape in anime, more they loved that anime wasn’t afraid to “go there” so to speak. As I said, edgy would have been a better word to use.

No worries whatsoever. I figured that's what you meant!

[Saiga]

Yeah, I think the rapey part came out harsher than intended. I didn’t mean fans back then were looking for rape in anime, more they loved that anime wasn’t afraid to “go there” so to speak. As I said, edgy would have been a better word to use.

I think it's totally fair. 'Edgy' is a bigger catch all, but rape is getting into peak edge territory and there are plenty of anime fans online that are actively seeking out that level of edge.

I remember being exposed to anime that had surprising amounts of violence and nudity (literally Dragon Ball to start with) and quickly thinking edgier = better because of how sheltered western animation felt. Some people go further than that.

I'd say Goblin Slayer's rape is appealing to a not-insignificant amount of viewers. Especially among anime fans who think of themselves as 'sticking it to the SJWs'.

Not trying to say the majority of people enjoy it for that reason - I've seen various clips of it that made it look like I could enjoy the series if I could look past the edge. I just didn't have the interest in doing so.

[XanatosVanBadass]

Yeah, I think the rapey part came out harsher than intended. I didn’t mean fans back then were looking for rape in anime, more they loved that anime wasn’t afraid to “go there” so to speak. As I said, edgy would have been a better word to use.

I think it's totally fair. 'Edgy' is a bigger catch all, but rape is getting into peak edge territory and there are plenty of anime fans online that are actively seeking out that level of edge.

I remember being exposed to anime that had surprising amounts of violence and nudity (literally Dragon Ball to start with) and quickly thinking edgier = better because of how sheltered western animation felt. Some people go further than that.

I'd say Goblin Slayer's rape is appealing to a not-insignificant amount of viewers. Especially among anime fans who think of themselves as 'sticking it to the SJWs'.

Not trying to say the majority of people enjoy it for that reason - I've seen various clips of it that made it look like I could enjoy the series if I could look past the edge. I just didn't have the interest in doing so.

Oh, Goblin Slayer is basically a role model for the alt right. I saw someone post a meme comparing the titular Slayer (favorably) to the NZ shooter. To say nothing of making refugee comparisons and wishing ”we had a real Goblin Slayer”. I think it’s underestimated how far right the anime fandom is by and large. Unfortunately.

[Bryesque]

Speaking of idiotic YouTube videos from the apologists, I just saw one that’s a real doozy. Vic supporters are now claiming that Toei is going to make Funi fire Sean and Monica. Its obvious nonsense, but I kinda wish it would happen. Just to see the StandWithVic dubbies cry.

Oh yeah, Toei definitely has it out for Monica.



(And yeah, I know that whoever runs the Toei Twitter account doesn't necessarily represent the company as a whole, and is very possibly just a marketing person contracted out... I just found it amusing that someone on the Toei payroll seemingly took a side on the Kamehacon issue, at least.)

I honestly don't think these guys get how this works. Or how anything works. Like... how is Toei going to "make" Funi fire some of their main cast members? Do they think Toei owns Funimation? Do they think Toei really cares at all about Funimation's internal staffing matters? And even if they did, why would they risk the upset of firing a very popular voice actor who's dubbed the series' main character for 23 years... over someone who's dubbed a minor character in like 4 anime appearances total? How does that make any sense whatsoever?

Just wild.

[Akamay]

I honestly don't think these guys get how this works. Or how anything works. Like... how is Toei going to "make" Funi fire some of their main cast members? Do they think Toei owns Funimation? Do they think Toei really cares at all about Funimation's internal staffing matters? And even if they did, why would they risk the upset of firing a very popular voice actor who's dubbed the series' main character for 23 years... over someone who's dubbed a minor character in like 4 anime appearances total? How does that make any sense whatsoever?

Just wild.

This and the whole "you guys are not the real voices of the characters, you can all be replaced because we have the original Japanese voices" is kinda dumb. "You guys are replaceable, but Vic is not" is not exactly the brightest of arguments.

There are also no real signs about Toei caring about Funimation. I doubt that they can force their views on Funimation's employees anyway. Like the whole thing about Toei taking down TFS's DBZA and a bunch of the Funimation cast actually showing some support for DBZA.

They also tend to not really mention where they got that idea.
Last time I saw a video about this, they had a thumbnail saying that "Japan supports Vic", but in the end, it was a journalist from a Japanese publication in English writing an article about the whole thing and not really siding with Vic.

[Fionordequester]

[O]ver someone who's dubbed a minor character in like 4 anime appearances total? How does that make any sense whatsoever?

I mean, the only way Toei's really gonna know him, if at all, is as "that weird guy that made Masako Nozawa uncomfortable, that one time".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RFFC_FeJoo&t=7h4m50s

I mean, I'm not generally one to talk smack of someone just from on-screen behavior, but, imagine THAT being your very first introduction to someone (especially given how the Japanese are about personal space and all that) .

[KBABZ]

And of course the latest stuff with Vic is increasing the rumblings of a so called animegate. Of course that goes back to earlier stuff concerning Funi’s recent dubbing choices that have sparked outrage.

I find this concept hilarious because it'd be almost entirely exclusive to the western side of anime. No way these guys would be bothered going after seiyuu or anyone actually MAKING the core works.

(And yeah, I know that whoever runs the Toei Twitter account doesn't necessarily represent the company as a whole, and is very possibly just a marketing person contracted out... I just found it amusing that someone on the Toei payroll seemingly took a side on the Kamehacon issue, at least.)

Well ultimately the person on the Twitter represents Toei to a certain degree, so a lot of what they do has an implicit "approved by Toei" angle that in many cases is literally true: they need to approve what they tweet with higher ups if it's important. People have gotten fired for not doing so.

[tinlunlau]

Anybody seen this on YouTube? Probably posted before, I dunno...

https://youtu.be/VOo7attn-tw

I reiterate anyone who thinks a Youtube video on the subject is going to have anything interesting and insightful to say, I’m sorry your instincts are wrong.

I'm wrong about what?!?!?!?!!!!
I only asked if anybody's seen it. This has nothing to do with my instincts.

[XanatosVanBadass]

[O]ver someone who's dubbed a minor character in like 4 anime appearances total? How does that make any sense whatsoever?

I mean, the only way Toei's really gonna know him, if at all, is as "that weird guy that made Masako Nozawa uncomfortable, that one time".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RFFC_FeJoo&t=7h4m50s

I mean, I'm not generally one to talk smack of someone just from on-screen behavior, but, imagine THAT being your very first introduction to someone (especially given how the Japanese are about personal space and all that) .

“Who is this strange homeless man who wandered on stage? Someone should help him!”

~Nozowa (probably)

[TheBlackPaladin]

I mean, if I were to play devil's advocate, I guess Toei could potentially care about Mignogna in the sense that they might be mad at FUNimation for firing him and, in doing so, leading to a drop in the DBS movie's financial earnings. In other words, they don't care about Mignogna, but they care about the financial losses incurred as a result of the boycott caused by FUNimation firing him, which is why Toei is mad at FUNimation.

Like I said though, that's basically me playing devil's advocate. I really, truly, pretty much completely believe that Toei doesn't care about Mignogna at all. Not to mention that the DBS movie isn't exactly hurting for money...to put it lightly.

So, all that to say, that's the only potential explanation I can think of for why Toei could potentially be "mad" at FUNimation about Mignogna, and even then, my instinct is to call BS.

[XanatosVanBadass]

I find this concept hilarious because it'd be almost entirely exclusive to the western side of anime. No way these guys would be bothered going after seiyuu or anyone actually MAKING the core works.

Yeah, this (like Gamergate) is pretty much just a western thing. Accusations that liberals are ruining anime dubs by inserting their “woke “ views into them.

[Kinokima]

Made an innocent tweet about wishing my friends a good time at Kamehacon since I know a lot of people going and some person with I Stand With Vic all over their profile retweeted me. Had to block them.


Don’t want a bunch of them to get the wrong idea. I hope my friends have a good time despite Vic being there.

[Bryesque]

I mean, if I were to play devil's advocate, I guess Toei could potentially care about Mignogna in the sense that they might be mad at FUNimation for firing him and, in doing so, leading to a drop in the DBS movie's financial earnings. In other words, they don't care about Mignogna, but they care about the financial losses incurred as a result of the boycott caused by FUNimation firing him, which is why Toei is mad at FUNimation.

Like I said though, that's basically me playing devil's advocate. I really, truly, pretty much completely believe that Toei doesn't care about Mignogna at all. Not to mention that the DBS movie isn't exactly hurting for money...to put it lightly.

So, all that to say, that's the only potential explanation I can think of for why Toei could potentially be "mad" at FUNimation about Mignogna, and even then, my instinct is to call BS.

Even then, the movie's finished its theatrical run, made a lot of money there, and I highly doubt any "boycott" will impact its physical release. (Especially considering he wasn't redubbed or anything to my knowledge, so it features his last Broly performance.) No matter how loud his fanbase is, they're nowhere near the majority of people buying Dragon Ball merchandise. I can't see this situation having an impact there at all.

Besides, Toei itself has replaced many of their own voice actors for a lot of reasons; they're not gonna consider a dub actor with an extremely minor role like Mignogna some irreplaceable asset by comparison. Funimation will find another VA who can yell and grunt all right and nobody but the Vic Cult will care... or even know the difference.

Made an innocent tweet about wishing my friends a good time at Kamehacon since I know a lot of people going and some person with I Stand With Vic all over their profile retweeted me. Had to block them.

Don’t want a bunch of them to get the wrong idea. I hope my friends have a good time despite Vic being there.

It's absolute insanity. They're turning the convention's mere existence into some kind of rallying cry for their cause. Mignogna's just one of many guests - and frankly, considering the con already tried to drop him in February, and probably got strong-armed into inviting him back, I have a hunch he won't be invited back next year. If I'm right, I'm very curious to see that side do a total 180 about how they feel about the con next year.

[SaiyaSith]

Yeah, this (like Gamergate) is pretty much just a western thing. Accusations that liberals are ruining anime dubs by inserting their “woke “ views into them.

Let's not act like like Funimation doesn't change dub lines completely away from the original script. You can't blame people for being upset that they made ridiculous script changes to every episode of DBZ or inserted their political views into certain anime, no matter what you align yourself with. I'm sure you're referring to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrINOumUccA

I don't know how anyone could defend this type of script change. Do you even care about anime? Or are you only here to push your political agenda?

[XanatosVanBadass]

Yeah, this (like Gamergate) is pretty much just a western thing. Accusations that liberals are ruining anime dubs by inserting their “woke “ views into them.

Let's not act like like Funimation doesn't change dub lines completely away from the original script. You can't blame people for being upset that they made ridiculous script changes to every episode of DBZ or inserted their political views into certain anime, no matter what you align yourself with. I'm sure you're referring to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrINOumUccA

I don't know how anyone could defend this type of script change. Do you even care about anime? Or are you only here to push your political agenda?

LOL I wasn’t defending anything. I’m just explaining how these controversies started and how their connected. Calm down for fuck sake.

[Mr.Saturn99]

Anybody seen this on YouTube? Probably posted before, I dunno...

https://youtu.be/VOo7attn-tw

I reiterate anyone who thinks a Youtube video on the subject is going to have anything interesting and insightful to say, I’m sorry your instincts are wrong.

I'm wrong about what?!?!?!?!!!!
I only asked if anybody's seen it. This has nothing to do with my instincts.

Ask yourself this: out of all the countless apologist defense videos for Vic, exactly what distinguishes this particular example from the herd? What does it bring to the conversation? Why is it necessary?

Not that I'm accusing you of siding with Vic, mind -- I don't even know where you side on this whole thing -- but this trend of randomly dropping anti-#KickVic YouTube links or (god forbid) Nick Riketia garbage has occurred roughly a dozen times within this very thread and is generally frowned upon, often since they're provided with zero context or, worse, to blatantly shift the narrative to misleading pro-Vic propaganda.

[kemuri07]

Yeah, this (like Gamergate) is pretty much just a western thing. Accusations that liberals are ruining anime dubs by inserting their “woke “ views into them.

Let's not act like like Funimation doesn't change dub lines completely away from the original script. You can't blame people for being upset that they made ridiculous script changes to every episode of DBZ or inserted their political views into certain anime, no matter what you align yourself with. I'm sure you're referring to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrINOumUccA

I don't know how anyone could defend this type of script change. Do you even care about anime? Or are you only here to push your political agenda?

oh no..that is truly the worst. oh my gooooooooooood.

[kemuri07]

I reiterate anyone who thinks a Youtube video on the subject is going to have anything interesting and insightful to say, I’m sorry your instincts are wrong.

I'm wrong about what?!?!?!?!!!!
I only asked if anybody's seen it. This has nothing to do with my instincts.

Ask yourself this: out of all the countless apologist defense videos for Vic, exactly what distinguishes this particular example from the herd? What does it bring to the conversation? Why is it necessary?

Not that I'm accusing you of siding with Vic, mind -- I don't even know where you side on this whole thing -- but this trend of randomly dropping anti-#KickVic YouTube links or (god forbid) Nick Riketia garbage has occurred roughly a dozen times within this very thread and is generally frowned upon, often since they're provided with zero context or, worse, to blatantly shift the narrative to misleading pro-Vic propaganda.

Youtubers is for kids and maladjusted man-children what "Men in a suit" was for boomers. Both assume a level of unearned authenticity while rattling off half-assed ideas, and the audience buys into it because "ThEY ARE SAYING THE THINGS THAT I AM THINKING. WHO NEEDS RESEARCH?"

It's what I call "The Fox News" approach.