Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

He had to put in effort to beat down Broly, who was DEFINITELY at least at the level of a God of Destruction. That's a HUGE margin, especially since base Gogeta is equal to SSB Goku and Vegeta given how his Super Saiyan form is equal in strength to Broly's.

Well Vegeta with Super Saiyan Blue Evolution is likely at least God of Destruction level as well. He did beat Toppo. Really he shouldn't be all that far off from someone like Broly if he's around as strong as Beerus.

Unless there's a huge difference between Beerus and Toppo.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

He had to put in effort to beat down Broly, who was DEFINITELY at least at the level of a God of Destruction. That's a HUGE margin, especially since base Gogeta is equal to SSB Goku and Vegeta given how his Super Saiyan form is equal in strength to Broly's.

Well Vegeta with Super Saiyan Blue Evolution is likely at least God of Destruction level as well. He did beat Toppo. Really he shouldn't be all that far off from someone like Broly if he's around as strong as Beerus.

Unless there's a huge difference between Beerus and Toppo.

And Vegeta had to make use of a family/pride boost AND a Final Explosion that could've killed him. And Toppo was merely knocked out of the God of Destruction state; Vegeta was at no risk of killing him with that move, showing just how strong he was.

I doubt that Vegeta's ordinary level of strength and moves would've done the trick against God of Destruction Toppo, and he's still in training and thus likely not as accustomed to using this power.

[PFM18]

Well he seemed like he was very close to Base Goku. Not quite at his level but close enough that he should be above Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks as well.

Which would put him far above the likes of Basil and Lavender. Not sure if that's the intention though. In the manga he was weaker than Piccolo and Frost.

He was clowned by base Goku at the ToP though. I wouldn't put them close.

How on earth do you guys explain Android 18 >> Base Goku and Base Goku >>>>> SS3 Gotenks without the two base and retcon theories?

The manga DID confirm the two base theory as canon in a sense, since in the anime Goku was alleged to have SBG instead of SSG. It got retconned to SSG because of the manga. That's exactly what the retcon theory is.

She isn't stronger than base Goku.

Base Goku > Base Gohan [ToP] ~ Piccolo > 18.

We don't know how 18 is compared to SS3 Gotenks though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQu7wRmMQX0

18 lifted an opponent that Base Goku couldn't, with absurd ease.

Anyone who thinks 18, who didn't train at all, is above SS3 Gotenks, is completely out of their mind.

They weren't analogous situations at all, and using that to make a definitive comparison is an erroneous conclusion. In Goku's case, he had him in a wrestling hold and Goku couldn't get out or lift him from his back. 18 just had to lift him normally just like any other time, she didn't have to deal with being in a wrestling hold and could just lift him normally.

Base Goku is magnitudes stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks, and I wouldn't necessarily blame anybody who believes 18>SSJ3 Gotenks, though I don't necessarily believe it myself.

[ruler9871]

Android 18 in the anime (since her fight with Ribrianne) is definitively above SSJ3 Gotenks by a mile and possibly above all of Z now. Same with all of the Kamikaze Fireballs by feats and scaling (since they were comparable to base Goku/Vegeta throughout most of the ToP, who themselves are far beyond anything in the Buu saga).

[dragon boss z]

Android 18 in the anime (since her fight with Ribrianne) is definitively above SSJ3 Gotenks by a mile and possibly above all of Z now. Same with all of the Kamikaze Fireballs by feats and scaling (since they were comparable to base Goku/Vegeta throughout most of the ToP, who themselves are far beyond anything in the Buu saga).

She also had trouble with a guy Krillin beat. Everyone’s power was all over the place. I would still consider her below Buu.

[CJStriker_CBR]

Android 18 in the anime (since her fight with Ribrianne) is definitively above SSJ3 Gotenks by a mile and possibly above all of Z now. Same with all of the Kamikaze Fireballs by feats and scaling (since they were comparable to base Goku/Vegeta throughout most of the ToP, who themselves are far beyond anything in the Buu saga).

She also had trouble with a guy Krillin beat. Everyone’s power was all over the place. I would still consider her below Buu.

Honestly that was Before 18's Power-Up in episode 117. While it is hard to figures 18's true power-level after episode 117 cause it seemed before Brianne went Giant she was already suffering from exhaustion and lowered confidence from losing her teammates, this seems to effect her in episode 111. However with Ribrianne still in episode 102 showing she in Base Ribrianne form has the ability to fight at SSJ-1 Vegeta Levels means that at full health, full confidence and her power-ups she is capable at around much more. Factoring in the exhaustion and these power-ups I say 18 would likely be around SSJ-1 or even SSJ-2 ToP levels likely.

Also Since it took tactics and not raw power for Android 17 to beat Kakunsa while giving him a good fight and Rozie gave a good fight to Base Goku, Base Goku in the ToP is well above near anyone in the Z era by what I have been hearing, the Fireballs are above nearly anyone form the Z era too.

[ruler9871]

Android 18 in the anime (since her fight with Ribrianne) is definitively above SSJ3 Gotenks by a mile and possibly above all of Z now. Same with all of the Kamikaze Fireballs by feats and scaling (since they were comparable to base Goku/Vegeta throughout most of the ToP, who themselves are far beyond anything in the Buu saga).

She also had trouble with a guy Krillin beat. Everyone’s power was all over the place. I would still consider her below Buu.

That was before the Ribrianne fight, and Krillin in the ToP is WAY stronger than he ever was in Z (as shown when he matched Base Gohan, who gave Lavender trouble in the preliminaries, who is stronger or equal to Basil, who fought on par with a Post-Buu saga Fat Buu).

[ruler9871]

Android 18 in the anime (since her fight with Ribrianne) is definitively above SSJ3 Gotenks by a mile and possibly above all of Z now. Same with all of the Kamikaze Fireballs by feats and scaling (since they were comparable to base Goku/Vegeta throughout most of the ToP, who themselves are far beyond anything in the Buu saga).

She also had trouble with a guy Krillin beat. Everyone’s power was all over the place. I would still consider her below Buu.

Honestly that was Before 18's Power-Up in episode 117. While it is hard to figures 18's true power-level after episode 117 cause it seemed before Brianne went Giant she was already suffering from exhaustion and lowered confidence from losing her teammates, this seems to effect her in episode 111. However with Ribrianne still in episode 102 showing she in Base Ribrianne form has the ability to fight at SSJ-1 Vegeta Levels means that at full health, full confidence and her power-ups she is capable at around much more. Factoring in the exhaustion and these power-ups I say 18 would likely be around SSJ-1 or even SSJ-2 ToP levels likely.

Also Since it took tactics and not raw power for Android 17 to beat Kakunsa while giving him a good fight and Rozie gave a good fight to Base Goku, Base Goku in the ToP is well above near anyone in the Z era by what I have been hearing, the Fireballs are above nearly anyone form the Z era too.

This is all true.

[ruler9871]

Re-watching the movie it dawned on me; Goku and Vegeta are still nowhere near Beerus despite years of improvement

Goku had already surpassed Beerus with the 3rd UI Omen.

[RecolorSaiyan]

Re-watching the movie it dawned on me; Goku and Vegeta are still nowhere near Beerus despite years of improvement

Goku had already surpassed Beerus with the 3rd UI Omen.

The text in that promotional image you are referring to was talking about the completed version of UI not omen.

Not to mention that line never appeared in the episode so its questionable to use it

[ruler9871]

Re-watching the movie it dawned on me; Goku and Vegeta are still nowhere near Beerus despite years of improvement

Goku had already surpassed Beerus with the 3rd UI Omen.

The text in that promotional image you are referring to was talking about the completed version of UI not omen.

Not to mention that line never appeared in the episode so its questionable to use it

The preview guide was for ep.129. Goku didn't use MUI in that episode so its obviously referring to the 3rd Omen. Even the guide itself shows an image of the Omen instead of MUI.

[RecolorSaiyan]

Goku had already surpassed Beerus with the 3rd UI Omen.

The text in that promotional image you are referring to was talking about the completed version of UI not omen.

Not to mention that line never appeared in the episode so its questionable to use it

The preview guide was for ep.129. Goku didn't use MUI in that episode so its obviously referring to the 3rd Omen. Even the guide itself shows an image of the Omen instead of MUI.

The text referred to silver haired form and he used it at the very end of the episode so yeah its referring to UI

[PFM18]

Android 18 in the anime (since her fight with Ribrianne) is definitively above SSJ3 Gotenks by a mile and possibly above all of Z now. Same with all of the Kamikaze Fireballs by feats and scaling (since they were comparable to base Goku/Vegeta throughout most of the ToP, who themselves are far beyond anything in the Buu saga).

She also had trouble with a guy Krillin beat. Everyone’s power was all over the place. I would still consider her below Buu.

Or they actually had strategy play a role and the fights in question weren't decided by power.

Goku had already surpassed Beerus with the 3rd UI Omen.

The text in that promotional image you are referring to was talking about the completed version of UI not omen.

Not to mention that line never appeared in the episode so its questionable to use it

The preview guide was for ep.129. Goku didn't use MUI in that episode so its obviously referring to the 3rd Omen. Even the guide itself shows an image of the Omen instead of MUI.

This is wrong in basically every respect. Goku DID use MUI in 129, and it isn't actually stating it to be true. The guide specifically quotes Beerus as saying it in the episode as a preview for the episode, but Beerus said absolutely nothing of the sort in the episode itself. Therefore, it was simply taken out of the final cut of the episode. That "official statement" has no value whatsoever.

[Bullza]

Considering how strong Super Saiyan Broly is, you've gotta wonder how powerful any Super Saiyan Blue Broly would be.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Considering how strong Super Saiyan Broly is, you've gotta wonder how powerful any Super Saiyan Blue Broly would be.

I theorized a little while back that every form that a Saiyan can access has a limit to how much Oozaru power it can be infused with; this capacity isn't limited by transforming on top of Oozaru-infused forms, if the jump from Human Oozaru to Super Saiyan to Super Saiyan Full-Power is anything to go by.

If we go by that, then Broly's power could get VERY LUDICROUS VERY FAST.

[Hugo Boss]

Considering how strong Super Saiyan Broly is, you've gotta wonder how powerful any Super Saiyan Blue Broly would be.

I think SSBlue isn’t compatible with Great Ape powers at first, so he could be at any level between SSBlue Goku and SSBlue Gogeta. Eventually, he could tap into that power again, possibly surpassing even SSBlue Gogeta.

[Bullza]

If Super Saiyan was combined with his Wrathful state then is Super Saiyan Broly 500x his Base?

[PFM18]

Considering how strong Super Saiyan Broly is, you've gotta wonder how powerful any Super Saiyan Blue Broly would be.

He'd be basically the same as SSB Gogeta. They were roughly equivalent in SSJ so they should be roughly equivalent in every form.

[ZombieVito]

So has anyone discussed Broly's FP Super Saiyan multiplier?

The fact that his fur while Oozaru appears to be Green tells me that he only used the Oozaru power with Super Saiyan with his FPSS state. So that would mean it's a 500 times multiplier.

It's the only thing that makes sense to me.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

So has anyone discussed Broly's FP Super Saiyan multiplier?

The fact that his fur while Oozaru appears to be Green tells me that he only used the Oozaru power with Super Saiyan with his FPSS state. So that would mean it's a 500 times multiplier.

It's the only thing that makes sense to me.

Honestly, it depends on how much stronger Oozaru made Broly when he first started using that power in his base form. There were 2 major boosts, the first that he used when he was put into the ocean by SSG Vegeta, and the second when he powered up to fight Goku.