SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

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Re: SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

Post by MDSTSSJ » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:51 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:What?
Could Buff Buu have powered up past what Goku sensed of him.
Fixed I think! Thanks Kamiccolo!!
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Re: SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:54 am

RandomGuy96 wrote: Hmmm... if you were to go inside Buff Buu at that exact moment, would you find the South Kaioshin there? Would you find him inside Mr.Buu?
I think he's just kinda dissolved by now. All that's left is his ki. Otherwise, he would have had a pod.
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Kamiccolo9 wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:What?
Could Buff Buu have powered up past what Goku sensed of him.
Fixed I think! Thanks Kamiccolo!!
No problem.
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Re: SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:54 am

That's I thought, but Buu assuming the physical form of South Kaioshin makes me wonder.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Re: SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

Post by MDSTSSJ » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:58 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:I don't see why he would. If Kibito Kai is correct, Buff Buu is just Kid Buu with the South Kaioshin inside him. If what we saw really was that form, he shouldn't be able to power up past that, since there's no more hidden power to access.

Hmmm... if you were to go inside Buff Buu at that exact moment, would you find the South Kaioshin there? Would you find him inside Mr.Buu?
I think I would find South Kaio in the Buff Boo body.
Last edited by MDSTSSJ on Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:59 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:That's I thought, but Buu assuming the physical form of South Kaioshin makes me wonder.
Maybe he was kinda like Cell? His body remembered the form, and brought him back there briefly until the purification process was complete.
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Re: SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

Post by MDSTSSJ » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:03 am

I never understand why Buff Boo never could keep his transformation.
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Re: SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:07 am

Technically the South Kaioshin was still inside Buu (in the form of Mr.Buu), but he wasn't in a pod...

I think he just had to revert in backwards order to reach his 'pure' form. It had to go in order, and the ki didn't just dissapear right away, it gradually disappeared into Mr.Buu.

Does anyone know why Toriyama made Buff Buu stronger than Super Buu again? So much would make more sense if he was weaker...
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Re: SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:09 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:Technically the South Kaioshin was still inside Buu (in the form of Mr.Buu), but he wasn't in a pod...

I think he just had to revert in backwards order to reach his 'pure' form. It had to go in order, and the ki didn't just dissapear right away, it gradually disappeared into Mr.Buu.

Does anyone know why Toriyama made Buff Buu stronger than Super Buu again? So much would make more sense if he was weaker...
I don't know why he bothered with the whole Buff Buu-South Kaioshin thing in the first place. It just needlessly overcomplicates things, in my opinion, and it didn't really add anything to the story.
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Re: SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

Post by Kaboom » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:10 am

Evil Boo is basically the same guy as Fat Boo, just rearranged a bit so that the evil side is dominant and grants him more power. That said, I figure that since the influence of the two Kaioshin were removed from Boo, he's just reverting in stages in the opposite order in which they were absorbed. The Grand Kaioshin was absorbed second, so his influence wears off first, causing Boo to temporarily adopt the "Buff" form and the power that went with it. Then the South Kaioshin's influence disappears too, and Boo's regression to his original form is complete.
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Re: SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:12 am

I don't know why he bothered with the whole Buff Buu-South Kaioshin thing in the first place. It just needlessly overcomplicates things, in my opinion, and it didn't really add anything to the story.
It did explain why Goku didn't get insta-squashed by Pure Buu. And if there wasn't this Buff Buu-South Kaioshin thing, I'd be wondering how Fat Buu randomly got way stronger from... eating himself? It wouldn't make a lot of sense, even with Pure Buu cut out of the story.

I like the whole absorption plot. It gave us things to talk about with the Buu Saga years later.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Re: SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

Post by Kaboom » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:17 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:I don't know why he bothered with the whole Buff Buu-South Kaioshin thing in the first place. It just needlessly overcomplicates things, in my opinion, and it didn't really add anything to the story.
Y'know, that's a really good point. It'd have been easy to have the Grand Kaioshin, the big kahuna in charge of everything, be both the strongest and the most pure-hearted of the bunch. So when Boo absorbed him, the benevolence would override the power, and leave him in his weakened fat form. When things switched around and the evil side was in control, he'd regain most or all of that power. Then once the Grand Kaioshin's influence was removed entirely, you'd still get the original Pure Boo.

The best explanation I can think of for Toriyama making up and involving South Kaioshin is Boo's appearance. Toriyama may have wanted a way to show why Evil Boo looked the way he did. With his Evil form in control, he'd now be primarily drawing from South Kaioshin. In all ways, both power and physical attributes. So now he's MOSTLY tall and muscular, like South Kaioshin, but still held back just a little bit by Grand Kaioshin and thus not quite as hulking as when drawing from South alone as Buff Boo.
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Re: SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:43 am

Appearances wise it still doesn't make a lot of sense, since a fat guy and a skinny guy, both wearing vests and capes, combined to make a muscular guy with no cape or vest. That's why I think Evil Buu ceased to exist upon eating Good Buu, and the fusion resulted in the rebirth of Kid Buu, which was caused by the impurities that made Evil Buu him being filtered into Good Buu.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Re: SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

Post by Mjb1985 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:23 am

Which is why I feel that the Buu's are all fundamentally different beings.

There are several chains imo.

1) Fat Buu - Good Buu - Evil Buu

2) Super Buu - Buucollo - Buutenks - Buuhan

3) Kid Buu - Buff Buu

I treat each incarnation as completely different Buu's with different psyches and all are fundamentally unique. Which is why I don't believe in any such thing as Fat Buu ( Absolute Power ) = Super Buu.
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Re: SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:23 am

Where did you guys found the fact that S. Kaioshin Boo is only slightly stronger than Evil Boo?
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Re: SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

Post by Mjb1985 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:00 am

The way Goku says it, it seems like Buff > Super by a decent amount but nothing tremendously. Goku questions if he is getting stronger in horror.
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Re: SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

Post by Axiom » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:32 pm

Doesn't Goku comment that Buff-Buu will be even stronger than before at the rate his power was skyrocketing?
I have
Buff-Buu
Kid-Buu
SSJ3 Goku
Gohan
Super-Buu
Gotenks
Good-Buu (South K. and Dai Kai)
Vegeta
Fat-Buu
Evil-Buu
Good-Buu
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Re: SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

Post by Mjb1985 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:41 pm

I have

Buuhan > Buutenks > Buff Buu > Buucollo >= Super Buu > Kid Buu > Fat Buu > Evil Buu > Good Buu
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Re: SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

Post by mAcChaos » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:42 pm

Axiom wrote:Doesn't Goku comment that Buff-Buu will be even stronger than before at the rate his power was skyrocketing?
I have
Buff-Buu
Kid-Buu
SSJ3 Goku
Gohan
Super-Buu
Gotenks
Good-Buu (South K. and Dai Kai)
Vegeta
Fat-Buu
Evil-Buu
Good-Buu
How could Vegeta be above Fat Buu.
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Re: SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:48 pm

The same way Goku is above Super Buu despite stating Super was stronger numerous times. That list is just incorrect. Anyway, mine is:

Buuhan
Gogeta (hypothetical)
Buutenks
Gohan
Gotenks
Buff Buu
Buccolo 2
Buuccolo
Super Buu
Evil Buu = Kid Buu
Goku
Mr.Buu
South Kaioshin
Good Buu
Fat Buu
Vegeta
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Re: SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:52 pm

Nope, it's:
Vegetto
Buuhan
Buutenks
Gohan
SSJ3 Gotenks
Buuoshin
Buccolo
Evil Buu
SSJ3 Goku
Pure Buu
Pure Evil Buu
Majin Buu(Fat)
Good Buu
SSJ2 Vegeta
Last edited by TheMightyOzaru on Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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