Goku says the same thing about Rild's power after his first transformation, which would imply that Rild got a similar boost, and we don't know for a fact that Hyper Mega Rild's battle power is an addition of Rild's & Mega Cannon Sigma's.SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:There is plenty of evidence for a decreasing multiplier.
- General Rild's comment when sensing Goku's Ki after he transforms
- General Rild is slightly weaker than Base Goku, and Hyper Mega Rild can put up a fight against Super Saiyan Goku. Hyper Mega Rild is just Base Rild with the Mega Cannon Sigma members' power added on, and all of them are weaker than Base Goku. If their power was over 50x weaker than SS Goku, their power wouldn't have been relevant to Hyper Mega Rild.
- Goku surpassing his SS form in Base from battle in space becomes quite ridiculous sticking to the 50x multiplier.
- Toei clearly does not think the boost is large, just watch any of their productions.
As for Goku surpassing his SS self like this, it's already a ridiculous idea by itself. Actually, almost anything that has to do with battle powers in GT is ridiculous.
Toriyama said that there is no limit to ki's growth through training, so just because Vegeta, or anyone else, has reached his limits after drawing out all of their dormant power through training or other means, it doesn't mean that they can't keep progressing. It does slow down their progress dramatically though, otherwise, Piccolo, Kuririn, etc would have been able to catch up through training.Clearly Vegeta had dormant power to tap into, otherwise he couldn't have progressed.
Saiyans are said to have bottomless dormant power. The Super God Water obviously didn't touch the dormant power that was used by the Super Saiyan forms, though it seems to have touched from his Oozaru dormant powers, but not all of it (he didn't become x10 stronger), so it doesn't seem to draw out all of the dormant power, at least not for Saiyans. Gohan got his dormant power drawn out by Saichouro, and he was still getting rage boosts without doing any training to re-develop these dormant powers, not to mention that he transformed normally years later into Super Saiyan 1 & 2. Vegeta got his dormant power drawn out beyond its limits by Babidi, yet it obviously didn't touch his SS3 dormant powers.Also, what about Goku after the Ultra Divine Water?
“Unlike the Super Holy Water, the Super God Water isn’t just a trick; it’s not merely ordinary water. Rather, it’s magnificent water capable of drawing out all the power you’ve got hidden inside you…However, if you’ve already mastered all of your power through training, even if you drink the Super God Water you won’t get stronger at all…”
Goku had all of his hidden power drawn out, yet, he still progresses, and obtains 3 more transformations..
But his eyes are not the only thing that changes, his hairstyle changes as well. In the manga, the eyes remain fully outlined, but his hairstyle changes when he fights & when he doesn't, which would mean that it works like a transformation there as well.In Movie 13, they show him with his round / not fully outlined eyes, that's how we know it's a transformation there. The same is not done in GT.
The reason that base Gohan's eyes aren't fully outlined in M13 is most likely because we hadn't seen base Gohan after the ritual in the manga when the movie was released.
It's not pure speculation, there are evidence. There is no mention of Ultimate Gohan in GT guidebooks or video-games, Gohan turns Super Saiyan even though it shouldn't have any effect on his power because that's the whole point of Ultimate. The M13 guidebook even stated that Gohan may not even be able to turn into a Super Saiyan anymore, and even though Toriyama's BoG contradicted that, the fact that a guidebook by Toei state that U. Gohan can't turn into a Super Saiyan means that if GT base Gohan is Ultimate Gohan, he shouldn't be able to turn into a Super Saiyan.You are correct about nothing being mentioned about his Ultimate powers in any guidebook, which is why it's pure speculation to say he lost them, and not supported by evidence.
The only thing that indicates that Gohan is Ultimate are his eyes, but even that isn't enough evidence because we see base Gohan with fully outlined eyes in the manga, and because it wasn't Toei that decided to give GT base Gohan the fully outlined eyes, it was Toriyama, who designed GT Gohan.
False.No guidebooks ever say Ultimate to be a form, either.
Spoiler:
That's my point. There is no enough evidence for us to conclude if GT base Gohan is stronger, or weaker, that Z Ultimate Gohan....what? All I said is there's nothing supporting him being weaker. If you want to say he lost his Ultimate power, you need to prove it. You can't say he lost it and then make me prove you wrong, you're making the claim. Nothing ever said it was a
