Shueisha's 'Dragon Ball' Room, New Department Focused on Dragon Ball

[ABED]

Naruto is now focusing on Naruto's son Boruto after, what, 15 years of running? And the series is literally called Naruto. I don't think Dragon Ball is gonna have an issue with that especially when they already experimented with stories with a non-Goku protagonist such as Xenoverse and the first part of the Boo arc.

It's an entirely different situation. First off, Boruto is doing horrible from a narrative standpoint. No one who wasn't familiar with Naruto beforehand is reading it, there's nothing interesting about the new story at all. Secondly, Boruto is just a Naruto clone to begin with, not much more needs to be said about that. Boruto is a carbon copy of Naruto, with a few visual and personality tweaks here and there. Lastly, Naruto spent quite a bit of time on world building, to its own detriment in the anime, while Dragon Ball did no such thing. The closest it came was in the two adventure arcs, but none of that is ever re-visited. As for the video games, well, the whole draw of them is that you get to fight alongside the heroes, notably Goku. So no, as of now, Dragon Ball couldn't go on without Goku.

It's not different at all. I'm not saying they're gonna cancel Super tomorrow and boot up a new series with Pan or Oob at the helm, of course not, that would be stupid. I'm saying that eventually Goku is gonna get stale, they're gonna exhaust every possible scenario they could cram Goku into and maybe even the fans could start complaining like they do with GT, and they're gonna be forced to make Goku take a step back. And if the series does well when Goku takes a step back, then they're gonna do more and more stuff with Goku in a secondary role. Dragon Ball has always toyed with the idea of the next generation, the Cell arc, the Boo arc, even GT, for all the Goku dick-sucking it did, ended with the next generation. Dragon Ball Online, as well. So this idea being fully realized in the idea of a new series wouldn't be something so out there.

They're already experimenting. I gave the example of Xenoverse, but there's also that new Yamcha manga. Sure, it's a small 3-chapter thing, but today it's that Yamcha manga, tomorrow it's a 4-episode OVA about Gohan and next week it's a fully new series with the next generation. Dragon Ball is gonna end up going the route of YuGiOh, JJBA, Naruto, Star Wars and a thousand other series. Either that, or you're gonna start doing reboots like comic books and Pokémon.

They've only toyed with it and it doesn't work well to go with the next gen. It's either Goku at the helm or it doesn't work.

What route did Star Wars go?

[Doctor.]

They've only toyed with it and it doesn't work well to go with the next gen. It's either Goku at the helm or it doesn't work.

How do you know? They never tried it.

What route did Star Wars go?

I'm not into the series, but I heard the new material is with a different cast, isn't that true?

[Grimlock]

You know what? I think I'd be in favor of a "Shared Universe", just like we see in movies nowadays. It would have a main story, but the other works would be done in order to supplement the main one and/or to give space to other characters. Of course, those ones wouldn't be "spin-off", "side-story", "filler" or whatever other word you want/like to use. Those other works would be done by different people in charge, for us to experience different feelings, tones, atmospheres and etc.

[ABED]

They did with Gohan and it didn't work, and I've yet to see a show that changes or loses the main character(s) and was the better for it.

I'm not into the series, but I heard the new material is with a different cast, isn't that true?

You mean the new movies?

[Doctor.]

They did with Gohan and it didn't work, and I've yet to see a show that changes or loses the main character(s) and was the better for it.

They tried with Gohan and changed minds at the last second. We don't know if it would work.

Nobody said it would be better. But at some point they're gonna exhaust everything they could do with Goku. In a series like Dragon Ball where the passage of time is a constant, they can't keep Goku alive forever, especially not when they can only use the dragon balls once per year.

You mean the new movies?

Yes, I heard it's with a new cast with an occasional cameo of the old characters.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Nobody said it would be better. But at some point they're gonna exhaust everything they could do with Goku. In a series like Dragon Ball where the passage of time is a constant, they can't keep Goku alive forever, especially not when they can only use the dragon balls once per year.

Time hasn't been constant in the new material. In fact, they seem to be doing their best to squeeze as much as they can in the shortest amount of time. They do not want these characters to age.

As for the Gohan thing, I think it could have worked, but Toriyama totally burned out creatively at the last stretch of that arc. However, that means little in regards to our current Goku. By the time they run out of things to do (Toriyama already did in the Android Arc, but let's ignore that), that means they will have run out of things for Dragon Ball as a whole.

[ekrolo2]

I'm not into the series, but I heard the new material is with a different cast, isn't that true?

It's a soft-reboot, everything that happened before still technically counts so the fanboys don't piss and moan "reboot!" (because I guess we've forgotten not all of those are bad like Batman Begins and Casino Royale?) but everything's been returned to old status quo with the Republic gone, the Empire basically back and a resistance movement opposing it. Basically the most inorganic continuation you can conceivably do.

[ABED]

They did with Gohan and it didn't work, and I've yet to see a show that changes or loses the main character(s) and was the better for it.

They tried with Gohan and changed minds at the last second. We don't know if it would work.

Nobody said it would be better. But at some point they're gonna exhaust everything they could do with Goku. In a series like Dragon Ball where the passage of time is a constant, they can't keep Goku alive forever, especially not when they can only use the dragon balls once per year.

You mean the new movies?

Yes, I heard it's with a new cast with an occasional cameo of the old characters.

They changed their minds because it didn't work. Goku is Dragon Ball. No one fits that tone better than Goku, and if they exhaust everything, they exhaust everything and finally end the series. The passage of time doesn't have to be constant. Most of the arcs take place over a short period of time. It's the gaps that account for most of it.

Yes, Star Wars has a new cast. Box office numbers are amazing based on brand identity alone, but I for one don't like the new characters by and large. I'd much rather stay with old friends. In fact, the biggest audience pops were for the old characters.

It's a soft-reboot

It's not even a soft reboot. It's just the series 30-40 years later. A soft reboot is things like Bond where the timeline had to constantly be moved to accomodate a new Bond. The hard reboot was when Craig took over the role. But yes, you are correct about episode 7, it's almost the same story with different actors.

[ekrolo2]

It's not even a soft reboot. It's just the series 30-40 years later. A soft reboot is things like Bond where the timeline had to constantly be moved to accomodate a new Bond. The hard reboot was when Craig took over the role.

It's a soft reboot in the sense that nothing the old cast did really matters in it. The Empire is back (IDGAF what the material says, if you've got the manpower to hollow out a planet and build a solar system busting weapon in it, you're an Empire, not some splinter faction), the Republic is gone by the end and we're back to having a ragtag group of resistance fighters to oppose the Empire. It's literally resetting everything back to the OTs boring status quo instead of evolving the universe in a new direction.

[ABED]

It's not a reboot at all because all of the continuity is still there. Retread would be a better term. I know I'm being pedantic and I agree about Casino Royale and Batman Begins. Episode 7 is no different than a sequel that is just a rehash of the first one, like every American Pie sequel.

[Doctor.]

Goku is Dragon Ball.

Goku is Dragon Ball for you. If they ever switch casts, you're free to stop watching. Some people won't care that they decide to take Goku out of the main role.

GT had an entire movie with the premise that Goku's time is over and it's someone else's story now. Sure, they included Goku in the end, but nobody's saying they're going to kill Goku off and make him never appear again.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Goku is Dragon Ball.

Goku is Dragon Ball for you. If they ever switch casts, you're free to stop watching. Some people won't care that they decide to take Goku out of the main role.

You missed the point. Goku is Dragon Ball to most people. The DB universe isn't some ever-evolving thing, other than character's ages and one experiment in a cast switch, the Dragon Ball world is the same when Goku flies off with Oob as it was when he first met Bulma. Dragon Ball just isn't the kind of series that can evolve past its cast, Toriyama's worlds never have been that way.

[ekrolo2]

You missed the point. Goku is Dragon Ball to most people. The DB universe isn't some ever-evolving thing, other than character's ages and one experiment in a cast switch, the Dragon Ball world is the same when Goku flies off with Oob as it was when he first met Bulma. Dragon Ball just isn't the kind of series that can evolve past its cast, Toriyama's worlds never have been that way.

Can we give someone a chance to try and prove it can before outright dismissing it? And no, the Gohan Boo thing doesn't count because it lasts 2 chapters and the Toriyama jerkily ends it in an equal amount of time. For experiment sake, I'd like for one of these spin-offs to do Gohan as the protagonist for manga arc or two and then we can see just how much this whole "Original cost or nothing!" mentality can last.

[ABED]

Goku is Dragon Ball.

Goku is Dragon Ball for you. If they ever switch casts, you're free to stop watching. Some people won't care that they decide to take Goku out of the main role.

GT had an entire movie with the premise that Goku's time is over and it's someone else's story now. Sure, they included Goku in the end, but nobody's saying they're going to kill Goku off and make him never appear again.

Sure, a 50 minute movie and it was only okay. I'm fine with codas, but not an entire series with someone new at the helm. It's never as good as far as I can recall for any story. I think people like the idea of the new generation more than they actually like new generations.

Shows are reflections of their main characters and no one fits that tone better than Goku, not Gohan, not Vegeta, not Uub, not Pan, not Goten.

[Doctor.]

Goku is Dragon Ball.

Goku is Dragon Ball for you. If they ever switch casts, you're free to stop watching. Some people won't care that they decide to take Goku out of the main role.

You missed the point. Goku is Dragon Ball to most people. The DB universe isn't some ever-evolving thing, other than character's ages and one experiment in a cast switch, the Dragon Ball world is the same when Goku flies off with Oob as it was when he first met Bulma. Dragon Ball just isn't the kind of series that can evolve past its cast, Toriyama's worlds never have been that way.

Goku is Dragon Ball to most people because Dragon Ball has only been Goku so far, it never tried anything new and, when it does, they never stick with it for long. You know why Gohan has such a big and vocal fanbase? Because during the short while that Toriyama tried to push Gohan as the next main character, people got attached to him and started viewing him as such, and they still can't let go. That's how people are with Goku right now.

Goku is my favorite character in fiction period but the dragon balls are Dragon Ball to me.

[ABED]

Yes, and a main character, especially one that has been around for over 30 years, is the series. And Toriyama did try something new with Gohan but didn't feel that it worked and it didn't. Goku fits Dragon Ball to a T. Gohan is a much more earnest character and doesn't fit the overall tone quite as well.

How are the dragon balls Dragon Ball to you? They are the McGuffins.

What stories can you think of were as good or better off for changing the main characters after a long time?

[Doctor.]

Yes, and a main character, especially one that has been around for over 30 years, is the series. And Toriyama did try something new with Gohan but didn't feel that it worked and it didn't. Goku fits Dragon Ball to a T. Gohan is a much more earnest character and doesn't fit the overall tone quite as well.

The Dragon Balls can't be the show to you. How? They are the McGuffins.

I already gave an example of a series that is switching up its main character after 15 years when the entire series is named after the previous protagonist, Naruto. I'm not saying Gohan fits Dragon Ball, I used Gohan as an example of the series trying something new. If the series introduces someone who is in every way exactly like Goku, would it be acceptable to change protagonists then? Or is it still a problem somehow? It seems like you're more fixated with the idea that it has to be Goku specifically just because it has been 30 years rather than someone who fits the series. A character like Oob or Pan are blank slates by the time the series ended, they can be written in any way they want. They could both be turned into Goku clones and what then? They'd fit the tone of the series to a T as well.

The dragon balls are the reason the journey even exists, they served as character motivation.

[ABED]

I can't speak for Naruto as I've never seen it, but that's insanely stupid to change the main character from the titular character. And if the series gave us someone exactly like Goku, why not just keep Goku? The one thing I'm fixated on is the idea that it's terrible to switch leads. I've never seen it either pan out or be as good. Terry McGinnis is okay, but the best parts of Batman Beyond is still far and away Bruce Wayne. He is and will always be the one true Batman.

The dragon balls are the reason the journey even exists, they served as character motivation.

So are McGuffins, but they aren't what stories are about.

[ekrolo2]

I'd like to use Star Wars as a good example of how you can invent a whole slew of new protagonists and make them all interesting heroes of their own stories, I'd argue most if not all of them are vastly superior to Luke who's a boring tool to resolve the story of his far more interesting dad. He simply doesn't compare to guys like Revan, the Exile, Bane, Plaguies, Namir, Zayne, Cade,...

[ABED]

I'd like to use Star Wars as a good example of how you can invent a whole slew of new protagonists and make them all interesting heroes of their own stories, I'd argue most if not all of them are vastly superior to Luke who's a boring tool to resolve the story of his far more interesting dad. He simply doesn't compare to guys like Revan, the Exile, Bane, Plaguies, Namir, Zayne, Cade,...

I don't agree at all. I immediately invested in Luke, Han, Leia, Chewie, Vader, etc. in a way I haven't with any subsequent set of characters. Luke isn't simply a tool to resolve Vader's story. He has an interesting journey all his own. I have ZERO idea who any of those other characters you named are.