Is Dragon Ball creatively bankrupt at this point?

[ABED]

Wait, it's overly fast paced? When? DBZ tries to build tension but the last 2.5 arcs use the take Goku out early formula and by then it was old hat.

Super? I explained why. Them taking Goku out the arc early has nothing to do with tension.

All of Dragon Ball Super is old hat because none of its ideas are new period. Not just specific plot details, none of it.

Some call it that because they're under this ridiculous assumption that DBZ (because they don't take DB into account) was an ensemble show.

Nobody thinks, nobody. It's a series with an extensive cast of good characters of which Goku is the main one. Even when other characters were no longer involved in the big fights anymore they still had the characters appear and do there own things.

Dragon Ball Super was the Goku and Vegeta show. Until the Tournament of Power most the other characters even main ones like Gohan did next to nothing.

You never explain why. And taking out Goku early has everything to do with Toriyama trying to increase tension. That's the whole reason to do it.

Nobody thinks, nobody.

I assume you mean "nobody thinks that, nobody". If that's the case, like always, you're wrong. I've seen that opinion plenty on here.

Dragon Ball Super was the Goku and Vegeta show. Until the Tournament of Power most the other characters even main ones like Gohan did next to nothing.

Tell me again what Gohan and Trunks and Goten did that was so damn important? Yeah they got a ton of screen time but it amounted to nothing. They didn't contribute anything meaningful to defeat Buu and they didn't even grow and learn. Mr. Satan did more for the story than any of the supposed main characters in the Buu arc. I'd much rather the story be paired down to essential characters instead of just having a bunch of characters appear to do something valuable but doing nothing.

[WittyUsername]

I’m pretty much zoned out with the Moro arc at this point, but I do at least give it some credit for not bringing back a previous villain and not being another tournament.

[Thunderbird]

You never explain why.

Yes I did, I told you how Goku Black and Moro were introduced and then almost immediately fought against either Goku or Vegeta. No build up like before, they just throw you straight into it.

I've seen that opinion plenty on here.

Sure you have.

Tell me again what Gohan and Trunks and Goten did that was so damn important?

It doesn't matter whether it's important or not. It hasn't got to do with contributing to the defeat of a character. It contributes to the plot, it adds variety, it allows the chance to see different personalities interacting in different ways.

None of these characters are ever going to play a part in beating a main villain. Would you rather they just write every single character but Goku and Vegeta? Never see Gohan, Piccolo, Krillin, Tien etc ever again?

[ABED]

You're right, whether DBZ is an ensemble show or not has NEVER come up on this forum, ever. I just made that up.

It doesn't matter whether it's important or not. It hasn't got to do with contributing to the defeat of a character. It contributes to the plot, it adds variety, it allows the chance to see different personalities interacting in different ways.

What meaningful way do they contribute to the plot beyond making it way longer than it needs to be.

None of these characters are ever going to play a part in beating a main villain. Would you rather they just write every single character but Goku and Vegeta? Never see Gohan, Piccolo, Krillin, Tien etc ever again?

I assume your second sentence means the opposite of what you wrote. I like the other characters, but I don't want them to just waste time. If they don't bring down the big bad, have them take down a lieutenant or give them a meaningful character arc. BTW, Gohan and Kuririn were important in taking down Vegeta.

Yes I did,

You never do. You just laugh at people, drop context, and make stuff up.

[SupremeKai25]

Goku Black never even fought against Goku in the manga..........

Also Goku Black only fought against Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks because anyone else would get curbstomped by him. It's simple. And even the "big three" were curbstomped by him several times.