Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 83 - Official Discussion Thread

[ChronoTwigger]

The wish: it's so generic it can mean everything. It can be translated to "prevent my kids from illness while they grow". It's doable and no lasting effects on the whole plot.

As for Bardack expressing 'that' wish, we haven't any hint about sayans being *against* their prole. Every father will care for prosperity of their kids, that doesn't mean he will express more empathy later. In a given sense, is way more like spartans: they do kids, they wished for strong kids, but they barely expressed cuddles and love. Every warrior wanted for a strong prole to reiterate the family name (and his own pride). We're also hinted that Bardack wasn't a cold killing machine thru Granolah events - he's a proud, stubborn individual, but he can understand 'fairness' at least. So, having a wish to spend (and probably Bardack wasn't even aware of all the dragon balls mechanics) he told something like "have my family name shine amongst Sayans" - something you actually expect from a warrior culture.

The boosting: is about a technique, that's mean you can learn it or not. There's a chance only a limited number of Sayan knew of that techinque, the same as not all individuals of our planet know just Shotokan Karate, but also Kempo, Boxe, Escrima and whatever you can figure out.
It's nothing that make Bardack different from any other sayan. Is not an 'inner magical power' that only Bardack owned due some kinda heritage. So, to me everything's fine.
What's not fine is that's a lazy solution to a problem they didn't knew how to solve (how to beat "the stronge being in the Universe"), and they gone again with an attack thing. I mean, Bardack could have spotted a flaw in Gas, could have found a way to suppress pain and continue to resist... instead they added AGAIN a new weapon for Goku to use, that stack on the weapon he was developing, that stack on top of what we've seen in previous arcs.
It's very very very lazy and can lead to terrible consequences. If UI wasn't enough, but 'Father Tech' is... enough to beat the *stronger being in the Universe*... what's the use of UI from now onward? Just use that Father Tech!
That really sound as a poor fanmade writing. The Bardack part is surely Toriyama stuff, but that combat thing was evidently Toyotaro input.

[Shorty GZ2]

Also, your avatar is extremely funny and I dig it.

Why, thank you lol

Here's a fuller-sized version of Super Baby/Bogdanoff 2 for you:

Can I get a quick rundown on this guy?

-Rothschilds and Reptilians bow to Bogdanoffs
-In contact with aliens
-Rumoured to possess psychic-like abilities
-Keep the electric car down so they can get their car based on string theory on the market
-Strong ties to the French prime minister; evidence to suggest that they influence his every move, pushing for policies meant to weaken the nation's moral fabric so that they might rule over them without difficulty, control France with an iron but fair fist
-Own castles & banks globally, are working on several secret military projects
-Direct descendants of the ancient royal blood line of untold power
-Will extensively bankroll the first NASA cities on Mars (Bogdangrad will be be the first city)
-Own 99% of DNA editing research facilities on Earth
-First designer babies will in all likelihood be Bogdanoff babies
-both brothers said to have 215+ IQ, such intelligence on Earth has only existed deep in Tibetan monasteries & Area 51
-Ancient Indian scriptures tell of two angels who will descend upon Earth and will bring an era of enlightenment and unprecedented technological progress with them
-They own Nanobot R&D labs around the world
-You likely have Bogdabots inside you right now
-The Bogdanoffs are in regular communication with the Archangels Michael and Gabriel, forwarding the word of God to the Orthodox Church. Who do you think set up the meeting between the pope & the Orthodox high command (First meeting between the two organisations in over 1000 years) and arranged the Orthodox leader's first trip to Antarctica in history literally a few days later to the Bogdanoff bunker in Wilkes land?
-They learned fluent French in under a week
-Nation states entrust their gold reserves with the twins. There's no gold in Ft. Knox, only Ft. Bogdanoff
-The twins are about 7 decades old, from the space-time reference point of the base human currently accepted by our society
-In reality, they are timeless beings existing in all points of time and space from the big bang to the end of the universe. We don't know their ultimate plans yet. We hope they're benevolent beings.

[PurestEvil]

Why, thank you lol

Here's a fuller-sized version of Super Baby/Bogdanoff 2 for you:

Can I get a quick rundown on this guy?

-Rothschilds and Reptilians bow to Bogdanoffs
-In contact with aliens
-Rumoured to possess psychic-like abilities
-Keep the electric car down so they can get their car based on string theory on the market
-Strong ties to the French prime minister; evidence to suggest that they influence his every move, pushing for policies meant to weaken the nation's moral fabric so that they might rule over them without difficulty, control France with an iron but fair fist
-Own castles & banks globally, are working on several secret military projects
-Direct descendants of the ancient royal blood line of untold power
-Will extensively bankroll the first NASA cities on Mars (Bogdangrad will be be the first city)
-Own 99% of DNA editing research facilities on Earth
-First designer babies will in all likelihood be Bogdanoff babies
-both brothers said to have 215+ IQ, such intelligence on Earth has only existed deep in Tibetan monasteries & Area 51
-Ancient Indian scriptures tell of two angels who will descend upon Earth and will bring an era of enlightenment and unprecedented technological progress with them
-They own Nanobot R&D labs around the world
-You likely have Bogdabots inside you right now
-The Bogdanoffs are in regular communication with the Archangels Michael and Gabriel, forwarding the word of God to the Orthodox Church. Who do you think set up the meeting between the pope & the Orthodox high command (First meeting between the two organisations in over 1000 years) and arranged the Orthodox leader's first trip to Antarctica in history literally a few days later to the Bogdanoff bunker in Wilkes land?
-They learned fluent French in under a week
-Nation states entrust their gold reserves with the twins. There's no gold in Ft. Knox, only Ft. Bogdanoff
-The twins are about 7 decades old, from the space-time reference point of the base human currently accepted by our society
-In reality, they are timeless beings existing in all points of time and space from the big bang to the end of the universe. We don't know their ultimate plans yet. We hope they're benevolent beings.

Imagine all that but with the Bogdanoffs being possessed by Baby's essence...they'd be a league above humans...

[Shorty GZ2]

Well, I guess this is somewhat relevant again now

[kemuri07]

Well, I guess this is somewhat relevant again now

Man I totaly dig the manga's version of Jiren way more than I do the anime. He's just a far more complex, more likable dude then the "FUCK FRIENDSHIPS!!" anime iteration.

[Mr Baggins]

Manga Jiren is one of my favorite antagonists in all of Super. Anime Jiren is one of my least favorites. Amazing how some writing divergences can make such a massive difference in a single character.

[Shorty GZ2]

Well, I guess this is somewhat relevant again now

In relation to that (jokes about "not even 1% of my actions are wasted no matter how weak my opponent may be" in relation to pseudo-UI Roshi aside), this from the same chapter also prob relevant again now



(Besides from the subsequent 4 pages of SSBE Vegeta yammering on about him having/needing no master, being the only guy of his team of fools w/ the confidence of having fought in thousands of life-or-death space battles unlike the lazeabouts on Earth playfighting in martial arts tourneys, & he's been pushed to the edge way more times than Goku + "saiyans are a warrior race") (to which he then gets BTFO'd by Jiren)

[kemuri07]

oh yes. Vegeta getting bodied near seconds after proclaiming "you're not dealing with an ordinary saiyan" is classic dragon ball.

[TKA]

Yeah, manga Jiren is great because he's consistently conflicted, but never realizes it until the end. He says he never holds back, while holding back because he doesn't want to be responsible for destroying any universe. He's a well-written character.

Man, the manga used to be so good.

[Cipher]

Yeah, manga Jiren is great because he's consistently conflicted, but never realizes it until the end. He says he never holds back, while holding back because he doesn't want to be responsible for destroying any universe. He's a well-written character.

Man, the manga used to be so good.

While I love manga Jiren and understand some frustrations with the structure of the current arc, we're still only about a volume away from some very good Vegeta and Granolah chapters. It hasn't sent its characterization out the window.

For that matter, I think its approach to Bardock as a conflicted man doing good on a whim is also perfectly in line with what it's done before.

I'm not sure I feel much has changed except its efficiency.

[Mr Baggins]

While I love manga Jiren and understand some frustrations with the structure of the current arc, we're still only about a volume away from some very good Vegeta and Granolah chapters.

We are exactly 7 chapters away from that, actually. Soon to be 8.

That's almost two volumes. I'll be saving most of my in-depth commentary for the end of the arc, but this ain't exactly a pit stop.

[kemuri07]

I am willing to give this arc the benefit of the doubt, and hoping that the manga bounces back with the next arc. Even with my complaints, I think there are stuff that's good here: I think everything having to do with Granollah and Vegeta is well done, and the fight choreography is really strong.

It stumbles the moment Gas becomes the central focus and arc makes a poor choice in hinging the emotional core of this story on Bardock. It's a huge swing and a miss and I'm just hoping that it ends soon so we can get to (hopefully) better material.

[TKA]

I'm not sure I feel much has changed except its efficiency.

I think even in works considered to be without merit, if you look hard enough and isolate things from wider context, you can find things that are well-crafted. Indeed, I can remember at least 2 chapters in this arc that I thought were good and could be held to the standard of the manga pre-Moro, but those 2 chapters are sandwiched by truly horrible context.

The "efficiency" you speak of is pivotal.

[ClutchBangstrip]

I loved this chapter. My only issue is with that one "Bardock Kick".

I try not to think too deeply about Dragon Ball and just enjoy the basics, but I often find that if you think just below the surface the series can get hyper-subversive. And I saw that again in this chapter.

Sometimes I think, "did they do this on purpose or am I thinking too hard"? This entire chapter with Bardock encapsulated Frieza's fear of the Saiyans. If you give the Saiyans enough time, they can overcome anything. Almost like, you really do hafta kill them all or they will eventually overcome you. It can't be a coincidence that Bardock tells Gas a Saiyan's key feature is to push past their limits. Gas then specifically states that he is the limit and Bardock then proceeds to push past him.

Are the creators trying to tell the readers, "We know how strong Goku and Vegeta (and even Broly) have become. And there's a reason for it. Bardock's statement should be taken more literally than you'd expect."

It's also very strange that Gohan and others are getting a heavier focus going forward. Maybe Goku and Vegeta fully realize what Saiyans really are and just become too "broken" to be so heavily featured. It's not a joke to say that a Saiyan's key feature is The Ability to Overcome. Like an exaggeration of a human, but still like humanity.

I also think Bardock being a key part of why Gas was motivated to become stronger and a key part of why Goku will become stronger and the two of them meeting each other is just icing on the cake. Or maybe I'm just overthinking things, again.