The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[dragon boss z]

Kid Gohan [Cell Games] vs Gohan [Black arc].

No Super Saiyan allowed.

I'll go with cell games Gohan, but I could see this one going either way.

[Hellspawn28]

Obuni vs.... (In no real order)

Ganos (Base Form)
SSj Bardock (Episode of Bardock)
#19
Dr. Gero
Freeza 4th form (Namek Saga)
SSj Goku (Namek Saga)
Cyborg Freeza
Coola's 5th form
Narirama
#17 (During his fight with Piccolo)
#16
Dabra
Perfect Cell
LSSj Movie 10 Broli
SSj2 Cell Saga Gohan
Basil
Ginyu Tagoma
Aka
Basil Buff Up Form
Fat Buu (Buu saga)
Fat Janemba
Botamo
Kakunsa
SSj3 Gotenks (Buu saga)
Kid Buu
Super Buu
Lavender
Hirudegarn (Post-Transformation)
Janemba
Buuhan
Zamasu (Goku's timeline. The one that Beerus killed)
Base Goku Black (During his first fight with Goku)
Ribrianne
Maji Kayo
Hit
Jiren


Rules:

No outside help
Buu can not absorb and use his candy ray
Ginyu can't switch bodies

Who can he defeat in this list?

[Zamasu55]

Obuni vs.... (In no real order)

Ganos (Base Form)
SSj Bardock (Episode of Bardock)
#19
Dr. Gero
Freeza 4th form (Namek Saga)
SSj Goku (Namek Saga)
Cyborg Freeza
Coola's 5th form
Narirama
#17 (During his fight with Piccolo)
#16
Dabra
Perfect Cell
LSSj Movie 10 Broli
Basil
Ginyu Tagoma
Aka
Basil Buff Up Form

He beats them all easily.
But I don't know if he's got what it takes to overcome Cell's regeneration, honestly.

Fat Buu (Buu saga)
Fat Janemba

He probably beats Janemba.

Botamo

He wins only if it's a tournament, otherwise Botamo wins.

Kakunsa

So, 17 and Ultimate Gohan are supposed to be equal.
Both Obuni and Kakunsa did pretty well against them, but they both lost nearly instantly when their opponents went serious. I think Obuni would win, because his techniques are way better than a beast woman's.

SSj3 Gotenks (Buu saga)
Kid Buu
Super Buu

I'm sure Obuni would resist against Ssj3 Gotenks until 5 mins runs out.

Against the Buu's... It's the same as Cell. Can he beat someone who're nearly immortal? I don't think so.

Lavender

Easy win as long as he avoids the poison attacks.

Hirudegarn (Post-Transformation)
Janemba
Buuhan

He wins against Hirudegeran.
I really don't know about Janemba, honestly.
Loses badly against Buuhan.

Zamasu (Goku's timeline. The one that Beerus killed)
Base Goku Black (During his first fight with Goku)

Obuni wins.

Ribrianne
Maji Kayo

Wasn't Obuni affected by Ribrianne's love attacks?
Maji Kayo wins, this dude was doing great against Goku and Dyspo, and needed Blue first and then Jiren to be beaten.

Hit
Jiren

Mismatch, come one.

[LowRyder2005]

Obuni...
Who can he defeat in this list?

As a premise, I have Gohan on "trained" base Saiyan levels (i.e. Goku in the Buu arc) and Super!Goku on High-Android Levels (#16 basically).
Obuni states that he appreciates base Gohan can keep up with him, and I interpreted it as base Gohan not being that far off him (more or less considering that there are a lot of folks above base Gohan, whom Obuni has certainly seen perform, so I wouldn't ideally seen him humoring a hundreds of times weaker base Gohan); as for Ultimate Gohan, we've already seen he can adjust his strength at will: I see him being in the usually abused power-saving mode, so just at a level comfortably above his base. Obuni could therefore even stop at Super Saiyan Goku on Namek in the worst case scenario; if Gohan is supposed to be really equal to Goku, he could get to Semi-Perfect Cell. Don't see him beating Perfect Cell, with the drastic jump between Semi and Perfect. Not seeing him beating anyone above at all.

Personally, I have arbitrarily placed him as slightly stronger than the Super Saiyan Trunks seen in the Mecha Freeza arc. I can understand why some would place him close to God/Blue levels or something, assuming Gohan was really going all-out, but I'm very skeptical.

Kid Gohan [Cell Games] vs Gohan [Black arc].

I think this is pretty straigthforward. Per Trunks' own words the Gohan he remembered was much better than the Gohan he was seeing (post-Cell Game being the time they said goodbye to each other); Kid Gohan wins easily. I have more doubts on the Gohan who fights Piccolo vs. the Gohan from the Buu saga.

[Noah]

New matches:

- current SSJB + 10x Kaioken Goku vs. SSJ Rosé Goku Black (final appearance)

- current SSJB + 20x Kaioken Goku vs. Merged Zamasu

- Ultra Instinct Goku vs. Vegetto Blue

Kid Gohan [Cell Games] vs Gohan [Black arc]. (No Super Saiyan allowed).

Gohan was more rusty in the RoF arc, after that he trained a couple of times with Piccolo, so I guess he might be much above his former self from the Cell Games.

[dragon boss z]

As a premise, I have Gohan on "trained" base Saiyan levels (i.e. Goku in the Buu arc) and Super!Goku on High-Android Levels (#16 basically).

But Beerus said base Goku was weaker than Frieza, and even after he went ssj he wasn't impressed, saying Frieza was still the best he could do.
Though base saiyans in Super are all over the place in terms of power.

[LowRyder2005]

As a premise, I have Gohan on "trained" base Saiyan levels (i.e. Goku in the Buu arc) and Super!Goku on High-Android Levels (#16 basically).

But Beerus said base Goku was weaker than Frieza, and even after he went ssj he wasn't impressed, saying Frieza was still the best he could do.
Though base saiyans in Super are all over the place in terms of power.

Well, I was not talking about Goku in the beginning of Super, I'm talking about the Goku seen in this arc. Though I also think Beerus' statement is interpreted just a bit too granitically; that is regardless of the fact I myself do keep Goku below Freeza more or less because of it. The possibility he just saw a relaxed Goku while thinking he wasn't too much looks fairly compelling. In general, it's not supposed to be the usual power-related indicator as much like a guy so disinterested and unimpressed with an abnormally weaker opponent to never even realize the difference between a Super Saiyan at the end of the original manga and a base (probably even suppressed) Saiyan in general. That's how I'd really contextualize the scene. Not as a "this is to let us know Goku was below Freeza all along".

[dragon boss z]

Well, I was not talking about Goku in the beginning of Super, I'm talking about the Goku seen in this arc.

Ok, I see. Ya current base Goku is way above Frieza. He is at least Buu tier when serious.

The possibility he just saw a relaxed Goku while thinking he wasn't too much looks fairly compelling. In general,

I could possibly see that if they didn't reinforce the statemetn even after Goku went ssj in Super. That line basically tells me "hey guys a lot of people were saying Goku was suppressed when Beerus said that in BoG, lets add an extra line to show them that isn't the case"

it's not supposed to be the usual power-related indicator as much like a guy so disinterested and unimpressed with an abnormally weaker opponent to never even realize the difference between a Super Saiyan at the end of the original manga and a base (probably even suppressed) Saiyan in general. That's how I'd really contextualize the scene. Not as a "this is to let us know Goku was below Freeza all along".

I see where you are coming from, but the thing that leads me to believe this isn't the case is because in episode 3 just hearing someone was capable of beating Frieza made him fall over and expose himself to Whis(lol). So if he really couldn't understand mortals of that level of power and didn't care, he shouldn't of been shocked at Frieza's defeat.

[Zamasu55]

New matches:

- current SSJB + 10x Kaioken Goku vs. SSJ Rosé Goku Black (final appearance)

- current SSJB + 20x Kaioken Goku vs. Merged Zamasu

- Ultra Instinct Goku vs. Vegetto Blue

- Goku could've won even in th Future Trunks arc, but somehow refused to use KK against Black.
- I think Merged Zamasu would still win, I mean they had to use the fusion back in the days, that has to mean that it was the only way.
- UI Goku wins easily.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I asked about Champa vs Jiren a while ago and was told that Champa would win. Has anyone changed their minds now?

[Bullza]

Hit vs Super Saiyan Blue Goku Kaioken x20

Fight is to the death who wins? Yes, Goku did beat him before in a life or death battle without using any Kaioken but that Time Freeze....that would be hard for Goku to get around no?

[Berserker1921]

I asked about Champa vs Jiren a while ago and was told that Champa would win. Has anyone changed their minds now?

We don't know how much powerful Jiren is from Belmond or how powerful he is. I still believe gods of destruction are stronger then Jiren. Mostly how three Gods almost destroyed the whole arena when they were just sparing. And none of them even looked at all tired or even seemed to be hurt. If we don't count the manga. I feel all the gods of destruction are near the same power level to each other. With very little difference in power. And mostly now counting on skill and technique. That being said Jiren could maybe defeat champa. But after a hard battle. Champa doesn't look like much but even he said the Time-Skip was a joke to him. So idk.

[Berserker1921]

Hit vs Super Saiyan Blue Goku Kaioken x20

Fight is to the death who wins? Yes, Goku did beat him before in a life or death battle without using any Kaioken but that Time Freeze....that would be hard for Goku to get around no?

If goku doesn't have plot armor. Hit dominates. In episode 111, he did better then a kkx20 goku did against Jiren. Jiren wins.

[Berserker1921]

New matches:

- current SSJB + 10x Kaioken Goku vs. SSJ Rosé Goku Black (final appearance)

- current SSJB + 20x Kaioken Goku vs. Merged Zamasu

- Ultra Instinct Goku vs. Vegetto Blue

- Goku could've won even in th Future Trunks arc, but somehow refused to use KK against Black.
- I think Merged Zamasu would still win, I mean they had to use the fusion back in the days, that has to mean that it was the only way.
- UI Goku wins easily.

I think goku refused mostly of the reprocussions that it didnon his body and ki. However you are right. This is quickly forgotten by ToP arc. I have a head canon that Goku didn't use it because he didn't want Black to learn it.

[Berserker1921]

[quote="Noah"]New matches:

- current SSJB + 10x Kaioken Goku vs. SSJ Rosé Goku Black (final appearance)

- current SSJB + 20x Kaioken Goku vs. Merged Zamasu

- Ultra Instinct Goku vs. Vegetto Blue



1. Goku hopefully smashes him to bits before Black gains a massive Zenkai boost and/or learns the Kaioken.

2. I think goku puts up a good battle. A better one then he did before. However I don't think even with that power he was equal to M. Zamasu. Zamasu still wins. Mostly due to broken immortality abilities.

3. If let's say both fighters have unlimited time. I imagine Vegito blue who is both goku and vegeta. Figures out Goku's UI evolution. I think Vegito might actually learn it right then and there. Vegito is both goku and vegeta. He is the perfect warrior. Even if he doesn't. I still believe Vegito would win the battle. Mostly due to broken power up of fusion. But it would be a tough battle. That would make Vegito struggle.

[apex_pretador]

New matches:

- current SSJB + 10x Kaioken Goku vs. SSJ Rosé Goku Black (final appearance)

- current SSJB + 20x Kaioken Goku vs. Merged Zamasu

- Ultra Instinct Goku vs. Vegetto Blue

I put Merged Zamasu slightly above KK x10 Goku and Black below KaioKen x10 Goku.
Vegetto should be comparable to x20 KaioKen, maybe slightly superior. However, Ultra instinct goku is well above that, and can't be tagged by vegetto.

Goku wins all these matches

I asked about Champa vs Jiren a while ago and was told that Champa would win. Has anyone changed their minds now?

I have. Assuming Jiren is serious, he smashes Champa.

Hit vs Super Saiyan Blue Goku Kaioken x20

Fight is to the death who wins? Yes, Goku did beat him before in a life or death battle without using any Kaioken but that Time Freeze....that would be hard for Goku to get around no?

Hit

He is simply better equipped. He did better against Jiren than KKx20 Goku did. He almost knocked Jiren out of the bonds.

[Noah]

New match: (No Hakai allowed)

- God Of Destruction Beerus (unseen full power) vs. Pride Trooper Jiren (full power)

[Roronoa-pt]

New match: (No Hakai allowed)

- God Of Destruction Beerus (unseen full power) vs. Pride Trooper Jiren (full power)

Most likely Beerus, Black mentioned he was one of the most troublesome Hakaishins, so he's likely stronger than Belmod, who's weaker than Jiren. Beerus can even use Ultra Instinct, altough he wasn't able to fully master the technique, according to Whis. His raw power along with Ultra Instinct ( again not mastered ) should be enough to beat Jiren.
Besides those reasons, he was able to keep up somehow with all the Gods of destructions ( manga only but I believe this scene can also be applied to the anime ).

[Zamasu55]

Hit vs Super Saiyan Blue Goku Kaioken x20

Fight is to the death who wins? Yes, Goku did beat him before in a life or death battle without using any Kaioken but that Time Freeze....that would be hard for Goku to get around no?

It's easy, just compare Hit's fight with Jiren with Goku's... the assassin did much better.

[Hellspawn28]

Who is the strongest warrior that Super Yi Xing Long and SSj4 Gogeta could beat in the Tournament of Power?