Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Hugo Boss]

Also from the Preview we know Vados adjusted/improved barrier around fighting area so now it depends on vegeta going ssj against frost or fighting him in base to measure how powerfull would be special beam cannon used by Piccolo. I lean towards just a little below base of goku and vegeta.

If you go by the spoilers, that is probably the new rule that will be added to the tournament after Frost is defeated. Once the contestants touch it during a match, they lose. I predict they will try to use that as a way to win.

Piccolo definitely got stronger with training with Gohan. But Piccolo did not get strong enough to be on par with Goku and Vegeta who have trained with Whis AND spent 3 years training together. That just doesn't add up.

Yeah, it's pretty weird for a support character to power-up that much so quickly without any plausible explanation. He would literally surpass Tagoma, Super Saiyan Gohan, 1st Form Freeza, Final Form Freeza, Base Goku (Champa Arc), Assault Form Frost.. Even Goku, who is a main character, was equal to Final Form Freeza, trained with incredibly heavy suits for.. (how much months?) and spent 3 years sparring with Vegeta in the RoSaT, while Piccolo sparred with a weakened Gohan for months..

As I said, the quote says "I haven't used anywhere near 10% of my power in a long time"

The way he speaks is like Vegeta is the first in a long time to make Beerus go that far and a confirmation that he didn't use anywhere near 10% to defeat SS3 Goku.

[namekiansaiyan]

Piccolo definitely got stronger with training with Gohan. But Piccolo did not get strong enough to be on par with Goku and Vegeta who have trained with Whis AND spent 3 years training together. That just doesn't add up.

Yeah, it's pretty weird for a support character to power-up that much so quickly without any plausible explanation. He would literally surpass Tagoma, Super Saiyan Gohan, 1st Form Freeza, Final Form Freeza, Base Goku (Champa Arc), Assault Form Frost.. Even Goku, who is a main character, was equal to Final Form Freeza, trained with incredibly heavy suits for.. (how much months?) and spent 3 years sparring with Vegeta in the RoSaT, while Piccolo sparred with a weakened Gohan for months..

I put Piccolo as a sub main character with Gohan and the main characters currently are Goku and Vegeta. A support is Jaco and Bulma. Remember Vegeta said they were near their limits (many people forget this line) and for Piccolo it is one of them power ups needed for the plot and because it's Piccolo who has a history of quick power ups, I can believe he has got stronger than base Goku.

[generalred3]

Piccolo definitely got stronger with training with Gohan. But Piccolo did not get strong enough to be on par with Goku and Vegeta who have trained with Whis AND spent 3 years training together. That just doesn't add up.

Yeah, it's pretty weird for a support character to power-up that much so quickly without any plausible explanation. He would literally surpass Tagoma, Super Saiyan Gohan, 1st Form Freeza, Final Form Freeza, Base Goku (Champa Arc), Assault Form Frost.. Even Goku, who is a main character, was equal to Final Form Freeza, trained with incredibly heavy suits for.. (how much months?) and spent 3 years sparring with Vegeta in the RoSaT, while Piccolo sparred with a weakened Gohan for months..

I put Piccolo as a sub main character with Gohan and the main characters currently are Goku and Vegeta. A support is Jaco and Bulma. Remember Vegeta said they were near their limits (many people forget this line) and for Piccolo it is one of them power ups needed for the plot and because it's Piccolo who has a history of quick power ups, I can believe he has got stronger than base Goku.

Fair enough but then some seem to be forgetting the line Piccolo says when given the offer to train in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber with Goku and Vegeta where he declines saying he would only slow them down. That was only 3 or 4 days before the tournament. Vegeta said they are reaching their limits after they both put up a fight against Golden Freeza. Also Base Goku was practically on par with 4th level Freeza while Piccolo was one shotted by first form Freeza. It just really doesnt add up. He put up a great fight against Frost and used his smarts rather than his power to almost defeat him. But power wise he just isn't there in my eyes.

[TheMikado]

Fair enough but then some seem to be forgetting the line Piccolo says when given the offer to train in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber with Goku and Vegeta where he declines saying he would only slow them down. That was only 3 or 4 days before the tournament. Vegeta said they are reaching their limits after they both put up a fight against Golden Freeza. Also Base Goku was practically on par with 4th level Freeza while Piccolo was one shotted by first form Freeza. It just really doesnt add up. He put up a great fight against Frost and used his smarts rather than his power to almost defeat him. But power wise he just isn't there in my eyes.

Exactly, theirs no way you go from getting one-shotted by non-Golden Frieza which Base Goku took on. To fighting a character Goku went SSJ against and 1) not training with anyone substantially stronger, 2) not using the RoSaT and 3) not getting some external power-up.

The amount Piccolo would have to jump to get to God levels would be insane since we know Frost's form is more powerful than base Goku which is more powerful than the Frieza form that one shotted Piccolo.

[namekiansaiyan]

Fair enough but then some seem to be forgetting the line Piccolo says when given the offer to train in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber with Goku and Vegeta where he declines saying he would only slow them down. That was only 3 or 4 days before the tournament. Vegeta said they are reaching their limits after they both put up a fight against Golden Freeza. Also Base Goku was practically on par with 4th level Freeza while Piccolo was one shotted by first form Freeza. It just really doesnt add up. He put up a great fight against Frost and used his smarts rather than his power to almost defeat him. But power wise he just isn't there in my eyes.

Exactly, theirs no way you go from getting one-shotted by non-Golden Frieza which Base Goku took on. To fighting a character Goku went SSJ against and 1) not training with anyone substantially stronger, 2) not using the RoSaT and 3) not getting some external power-up.

The amount Piccolo would have to jump to get to God levels would be insane since we know Frost's form is more powerful than base Goku which is more powerful than the Frieza form that one shotted Piccolo.

But the evidence says he is that strong.

[generalred3]

Fair enough but then some seem to be forgetting the line Piccolo says when given the offer to train in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber with Goku and Vegeta where he declines saying he would only slow them down. That was only 3 or 4 days before the tournament. Vegeta said they are reaching their limits after they both put up a fight against Golden Freeza. Also Base Goku was practically on par with 4th level Freeza while Piccolo was one shotted by first form Freeza. It just really doesnt add up. He put up a great fight against Frost and used his smarts rather than his power to almost defeat him. But power wise he just isn't there in my eyes.

Exactly, theirs no way you go from getting one-shotted by non-Golden Frieza which Base Goku took on. To fighting a character Goku went SSJ against and 1) not training with anyone substantially stronger, 2) not using the RoSaT and 3) not getting some external power-up.

The amount Piccolo would have to jump to get to God levels would be insane since we know Frost's form is more powerful than base Goku which is more powerful than the Frieza form that one shotted Piccolo.

But the evidence says he is that strong.

You are still assuming Piccolo almost won because of his strength. He knew he wasn't strong enough so he used his brains (running away and using his multiform technique) while charging his Makankosappo as long as he can to hopefully beat him with it. If he missed or didn't take him out (which is what happened), then he would of lost. I compare it to Raditz. Piccolo is was much weaker than Raditz but because Goku held him, his technique was strong enough to deliver a fatal blow. Same thing applies here, Frost was trapped and his technique was hopefully powerful enough to deliver a fatal blow. Just because he almost technically got the victory and Frost had to poison (or paralyze?) him because Piccolo was smart enough to trap him, does not mean he is now God tier. Piccolo himself even said the only reason Frost was trapped was because he didn't know his battle tactic and that he is a tactician type of fighter. The only thing Piccolo considers himself to be on a God tier level would be his mind, not power.

[TheMikado]

You are still assuming Piccolo almost won because of his strength. He knew he wasn't strong enough so he used his brains (running away and using his multiform technique) while charging his Makankosappo as long as he can to hopefully beat him with it. If he missed or didn't take him out (which is what happened), then he would of lost. I compare it to Raditz. Piccolo is was much weaker than Raditz but because Goku held him, his technique was strong enough to deliver a fatal blow. Same thing applies here, Frost was trapped and his technique was hopefully powerful enough to deliver a fatal blow. Just because he almost technically got the victory and Frost had to poison (or paralyze?) him because Piccolo was smart enough to trap him, does not mean he is now God tier. Piccolo himself even said the only reason Frost was trapped was because he didn't know his battle tactic and that he is a tactician type of fighter. The only thing Piccolo considers himself to be on a God tier level would be his mind, not power.

This argument is fine and I agree with it completely. I feel the manga did a much better job of showing that. But other's are insisting it is evidence that Piccolo power level are God tier when they clearly are not. The Anime just made it more fan-service-y
See below...

But the evidence says he is that strong.

[namekiansaiyan]

You are still assuming Piccolo almost won because of his strength. He knew he wasn't strong enough so he used his brains (running away and using his multiform technique) while charging his Makankosappo as long as he can to hopefully beat him with it. If he missed or didn't take him out (which is what happened), then he would of lost. I compare it to Raditz. Piccolo is was much weaker than Raditz but because Goku held him, his technique was strong enough to deliver a fatal blow. Same thing applies here, Frost was trapped and his technique was hopefully powerful enough to deliver a fatal blow. Just because he almost technically got the victory and Frost had to poison (or paralyze?) him because Piccolo was smart enough to trap him, does not mean he is now God tier. Piccolo himself even said the only reason Frost was trapped was because he didn't know his battle tactic and that he is a tactician type of fighter. The only thing Piccolo considers himself to be on a God tier level would be his mind, not power.

This argument is fine and I agree with it completely. I feel the manga did a much better job of showing that. But other's are insisting it is evidence that Piccolo power level are God tier when they clearly are not. The Anime just made it more fan-service-y
See below...

But the evidence says he is that strong.

There is always looking at it a different way and that is Frost could not beat Piccolo instead of Piccolo being able to beat Frost. In both manga and anime frost had no way of beating Piccolo apart from cheating. The manga actually had Piccolo do some kind of fighting with his arms aswell so I don't think the manga shows him a lot weaker, but the complete opposite so they have to be close in power.

[generalred3]

You are still assuming Piccolo almost won because of his strength. He knew he wasn't strong enough so he used his brains (running away and using his multiform technique) while charging his Makankosappo as long as he can to hopefully beat him with it. If he missed or didn't take him out (which is what happened), then he would of lost. I compare it to Raditz. Piccolo is was much weaker than Raditz but because Goku held him, his technique was strong enough to deliver a fatal blow. Same thing applies here, Frost was trapped and his technique was hopefully powerful enough to deliver a fatal blow. Just because he almost technically got the victory and Frost had to poison (or paralyze?) him because Piccolo was smart enough to trap him, does not mean he is now God tier. Piccolo himself even said the only reason Frost was trapped was because he didn't know his battle tactic and that he is a tactician type of fighter. The only thing Piccolo considers himself to be on a God tier level would be his mind, not power.

This argument is fine and I agree with it completely. I feel the manga did a much better job of showing that. But other's are insisting it is evidence that Piccolo power level are God tier when they clearly are not. The Anime just made it more fan-service-y
See below...

But the evidence says he is that strong.

There is always looking at it a different way and that is Frost could not beat Piccolo instead of Piccolo being able to beat Frost. In both manga and anime frost had no way of beating Piccolo apart from cheating. The manga actually had Piccolo do some kind of fighting with his arms aswell so I don't think the manga shows him a lot weaker, but the complete opposite so they have to be close in power.

I understand where you are coming from. However, if Frost could not beat Piccolo and Piccolo knew that, then why did Piccolo spend the match trying to basically run away from Frost until the Makankosappo was ready? If he had the power to beat him then he would have just attacked him head on instead of having to rely on a strategy that mostly focused on defense. This is what makes him a smart fighter as he himself classifies himself to be.

Also, as the title of the episode states "Bet it all on the Makankosappo", that attack was really his only chance. None of his other techniques would work other than this. What I will say is the power of the Makankosappo may be on par or close to Frost when fully charged to do damage. As for Piccolo himself, I'd have to say no.

[namekiansaiyan]

There is always looking at it a different way and that is Frost could not beat Piccolo instead of Piccolo being able to beat Frost. In both manga and anime frost had no way of beating Piccolo apart from cheating. The manga actually had Piccolo do some kind of fighting with his arms aswell so I don't think the manga shows him a lot weaker, but the complete opposite so they have to be close in power.

I understand where you are coming from. However, if Frost could not beat Piccolo and Piccolo knew that, then why did Piccolo spend the match trying to basically run away from Frost until the Makankosappo was ready? If he had the power to beat him then he would have just attacked him head on instead of having to rely on a strategy that mostly focused on defense. This is what makes him a smart fighter as he himself classifies himself to be.

Also, as the title of the episode states "Bet it all on the Makankosappo", that attack was really his only chance. None of his other techniques would work other than this. What I will say is the power of the Makankosappo may be on par or close to Frost when fully charged to do damage. As for Piccolo himself, I'd have to say no.

I just take what Krillin said and that was Piccolo wants to finish it in one limit breaking attack and I interpet from that if he does not use the Special Beam Cannon they will be in stalemate otherwise.

[generalred3]

There is always looking at it a different way and that is Frost could not beat Piccolo instead of Piccolo being able to beat Frost. In both manga and anime frost had no way of beating Piccolo apart from cheating. The manga actually had Piccolo do some kind of fighting with his arms aswell so I don't think the manga shows him a lot weaker, but the complete opposite so they have to be close in power.

I understand where you are coming from. However, if Frost could not beat Piccolo and Piccolo knew that, then why did Piccolo spend the match trying to basically run away from Frost until the Makankosappo was ready? If he had the power to beat him then he would have just attacked him head on instead of having to rely on a strategy that mostly focused on defense. This is what makes him a smart fighter as he himself classifies himself to be.

Also, as the title of the episode states "Bet it all on the Makankosappo", that attack was really his only chance. None of his other techniques would work other than this. What I will say is the power of the Makankosappo may be on par or close to Frost when fully charged to do damage. As for Piccolo himself, I'd have to say no.

I just take what Krillin said and that was Piccolo wants to finish it in one limit breaking attack and I interpet from that if he does not use the Special Beam Cannon they will be in stalemate otherwise.

Or that if he misses than he stands no chance. Thats how I see it anyway. But no problem, lets agree to disagree. Moving on...

[namekiansaiyan]

How strong do people have buu, would he be able to beat final form Frost.

[Bullza]

Good Buu is about as strong as a SSJ2.5 or something. He definitely seemed to be in between SSJ2 Vegeta and SSJ3 Goku and I doubt he got any stronger.

I can't remember what I said now but I think I said Piccolo could be about as strong as a Buu arc SSJ2 at best and Frost was still supposed to be quite a bit higher even with him worn out.

So I'd guess Frost was also somewhere between Buu arc SSJ2 and SSJ3.

[TheMikado]

Good Buu is about as strong as a SSJ2.5 or something. He definitely seemed to be in between SSJ2 Vegeta and SSJ3 Goku and I doubt he got any stronger.

I can't remember what I said now but I think I said Piccolo could be about as strong as a Buu arc SSJ2 at best and Frost was still supposed to be quite a bit higher even with him worn out.

So I'd guess Frost was also somewhere between Buu arc SSJ2 and SSJ3.

I don't know, I feel like Gokus base is like around Z SSJ3 level now. It would be easier to forgive out Frosts power level if we knew Gokus base.

[ZombieVito]

Good Buu is about as strong as a SSJ2.5 or something. He definitely seemed to be in between SSJ2 Vegeta and SSJ3 Goku and I doubt he got any stronger.

I can't remember what I said now but I think I said Piccolo could be about as strong as a Buu arc SSJ2 at best and Frost was still supposed to be quite a bit higher even with him worn out.

So I'd guess Frost was also somewhere between Buu arc SSJ2 and SSJ3.

I don't know, I feel like Gokus base is like around Z SSJ3 level now. It would be easier to forgive out Frosts power level if we knew Gokus base.

I just can't see final form Freeza being Pure Boo tier.

[namekiansaiyan]

Good Buu is about as strong as a SSJ2.5 or something. He definitely seemed to be in between SSJ2 Vegeta and SSJ3 Goku and I doubt he got any stronger.

I can't remember what I said now but I think I said Piccolo could be about as strong as a Buu arc SSJ2 at best and Frost was still supposed to be quite a bit higher even with him worn out.

So I'd guess Frost was also somewhere between Buu arc SSJ2 and SSJ3.

I don't know, I feel like Gokus base is like around Z SSJ3 level now. It would be easier to forgive out Frosts power level if we knew Gokus base.

I just can't see final form Freeza being Pure Boo tier.

So is final form Frieza higher than pure buu or lower according to you.

[ZombieVito]

According to my numbers he would be Buutenks tier.

[TheMikado]

So is final form Frieza higher than pure buu or lower according to you.

Don't know, but above SSJ2 since we know piccolo would be around that level from the android saga til now and still got one shotted by final form Frieza which base Goku could take on.

[Bullza]

Wouldn't Final Form Frieza in RoF be ridiculously above anyone in DBZ?

If SSJ Gohan, Piccolo, Tien, Krillin and Roshi were no match for First Form Frieza and then he's possibly 200 or more times stronger in his final form then Buu is nothing in comparison.

[TheMikado]

Wouldn't Final Form Frieza in RoF be ridiculously above anyone in DBZ?

If SSJ Gohan, Piccolo, Tien, Krillin and Roshi were no match for First Form Frieza and then he's possibly 200 or more times stronger in his final form then Buu is nothing in comparison.

That's my point though and it looks like Frosts forms were even stronger than Frieza's. I.e. Goku had to go SSJ to take on Frost when the same from Frieza was handled by base Goku. Frost should be ridiculously stronger than Everyone else in super besides Goku and Vegeta just based on the RoF fights and scaling. That's why the power scaling is so bad.