Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

Wouldn't Final Form Frieza in RoF be ridiculously above anyone in DBZ?

If SSJ Gohan, Piccolo, Tien, Krillin and Roshi were no match for First Form Frieza and then he's possibly 200 or more times stronger in his final form then Buu is nothing in comparison.

Nowhere is it stated that Freeza made the gap between his first and final forms the same as before.

Anyway I just read the Spanish translation of the newest chapter and sadly it contains no explanation of Super Saiyan. Curiously when Piccolo asks Goku if he can win, he says "I don't know. He would be difficult for you to beat" but later compliments Piccolo for the way he is fighting and endurance. Frost also says Piccolo really is a very strong guy.

[supercat]

Final Form Frieza (RoF) is likely leagues above SSJ Vegetto (Buu arc); I have the latter a few notches below enraged Vegeta (BoG), who in my opinion is a mere fodder compared to Base Goku (RoF).

I personally adhere to the following:

SSJ Vegetto (Buu arc): Too low to be on this scale
Enraged Vegeta (BoG): 1
Base Goku (RoF) = Final Form Frieza = Final Form Frost (exhausted) = Piccolo (Champa): 3
Base Goku (Champa): 3.5
Assault Form Frost: 4
Final Form Frost: 5
Piccolo (Special Beam Cannon): 5.5
SSJ Goku (BoG) = SSG Goku: 6
SSJ Goku (Champa): 6.5
SSGSS Goku (RoF): 7

[namekiansaiyan]

Wouldn't Final Form Frieza in RoF be ridiculously above anyone in DBZ?

If SSJ Gohan, Piccolo, Tien, Krillin and Roshi were no match for First Form Frieza and then he's possibly 200 or more times stronger in his final form then Buu is nothing in comparison.

Nowhere is it stated that Freeza made the gap between his first and final forms the same as before.

Anyway I just read the Spanish translation of the newest chapter and sadly it contains no explanation of Super Saiyan. Curiously when Piccolo asks Goku if he can win, he says "I don't know. He would be difficult for you to beat" but later compliments Piccolo for the way he is fighting and endurance. Frost also says Piccolo really is a very strong guy.

So Piccolo is close to final form Frost then.

[Bullza]

Nowhere is it stated that Freeza made the gap between his first and final forms the same as before.

And likewise nowhere is it stated to be any different either. We only know of the one gap between forms and unless there's been any kind of comment on it, which there hasn't, then you can only assume that it's the same as theres nothing else to go on.

In any case even after he was told that Buu had been defeated by Goku he was still confident that after unlocking his latent ability he would be able to beat him. So that really says enough.

[supercat]

Wouldn't Final Form Frieza in RoF be ridiculously above anyone in DBZ?

If SSJ Gohan, Piccolo, Tien, Krillin and Roshi were no match for First Form Frieza and then he's possibly 200 or more times stronger in his final form then Buu is nothing in comparison.

Nowhere is it stated that Freeza made the gap between his first and final forms the same as before.

Anyway I just read the Spanish translation of the newest chapter and sadly it contains no explanation of Super Saiyan. Curiously when Piccolo asks Goku if he can win, he says "I don't know. He would be difficult for you to beat" but later compliments Piccolo for the way he is fighting and endurance. Frost also says Piccolo really is a very strong guy.

So Piccolo is close to final form Frost then.

I listed Piccolo down in the same tier as Base Goku (RoF), Final Form Frieza (RoF), and Final Form Frost (exhausted) in my previous post, but depending on a few variables, I could see him being a notch or two higher than that.

First and foremost, if Base Vegeta one-shots Frost, it's safe to assume that Piccolo stands a tier below the Base Saiyans (Champa). That said, I would still place him in same realm of power as Base Goku (RoF) / Final Form Frieza; anything below seems a bit far-fetched.

Piccolo's placement would also be heavily dependent on the extent of power Frost lost from fatigue.

[ZombieVito]

Wouldn't Final Form Frieza in RoF be ridiculously above anyone in DBZ?

If SSJ Gohan, Piccolo, Tien, Krillin and Roshi were no match for First Form Frieza and then he's possibly 200 or more times stronger in his final form then Buu is nothing in comparison.

Nowhere is it stated that Freeza made the gap between his first and final forms the same as before.

Anyway I just read the Spanish translation of the newest chapter and sadly it contains no explanation of Super Saiyan. Curiously when Piccolo asks Goku if he can win, he says "I don't know. He would be difficult for you to beat" but later compliments Piccolo for the way he is fighting and endurance. Frost also says Piccolo really is a very strong guy.

So Piccolo is close to final form Frost then.

No. Frost is weakened by a good margin.

[namekiansaiyan]

Nowhere is it stated that Freeza made the gap between his first and final forms the same as before.

Anyway I just read the Spanish translation of the newest chapter and sadly it contains no explanation of Super Saiyan. Curiously when Piccolo asks Goku if he can win, he says "I don't know. He would be difficult for you to beat" but later compliments Piccolo for the way he is fighting and endurance. Frost also says Piccolo really is a very strong guy.

So Piccolo is close to final form Frost then.

I listed Piccolo down in the same tier as Base Goku (RoF), Final Form Frieza (RoF), and Final Form Frost (exhausted) in my previous post, but depending on a few variables, I could see him being a notch or two higher than that.

First and foremost, if Base Vegeta one-shots Frost, it's safe to assume that Piccolo stands a tier below the Base Saiyans (Champa). That said, I would still place him in same realm of power as Base Goku (RoF) / Final Form Frieza; anything below seems a bit far-fetched.

Piccolo's placement would also be heavily dependent on the extent of power Frost lost from fatigue.

If Vegeta one shots Frost in Base then it would make no sense as why couldn't Goku do it I know Frost is tired but I only think he is a little tired. I think it would mean Vegeta is stonger than Goku instead of Piccolo being weaker.

[namekiansaiyan]

Nowhere is it stated that Freeza made the gap between his first and final forms the same as before.

Anyway I just read the Spanish translation of the newest chapter and sadly it contains no explanation of Super Saiyan. Curiously when Piccolo asks Goku if he can win, he says "I don't know. He would be difficult for you to beat" but later compliments Piccolo for the way he is fighting and endurance. Frost also says Piccolo really is a very strong guy.

So Piccolo is close to final form Frost then.

No. Frost is weakened by a good margin.

Did it say that in the chapter.

[supercat]

I listed Piccolo down in the same tier as Base Goku (RoF), Final Form Frieza (RoF), and Final Form Frost (exhausted) in my previous post, but depending on a few variables, I could see him being a notch or two higher than that.

First and foremost, if Base Vegeta one-shots Frost, it's safe to assume that Piccolo stands a tier below the Base Saiyans (Champa). That said, I would still place him in same realm of power as Base Goku (RoF) / Final Form Frieza; anything below seems a bit far-fetched.

Piccolo's placement would also be heavily dependent on the extent of power Frost lost from fatigue.

If Vegeta one shots Frost in Base then it would make no sense as why couldn't Goku do it I know Frost is tired but I only think he is a little tired. I think it would mean Vegeta is stonger than Goku instead of Piccolo being weaker.

There's definitely some validity behind your theory; but when all is said and done, Vegeta one-shotting Frost would just be absurd.

I'm really hoping for him to fall back into a pit of humility where he reclaims his job as a punching bag; this new leagues above everyone else thing just doesn't go too well with him.

I think it's great that he's upped his game as a father and husband, but does he really have to be so buddy buddy with Goku?

In any case, the lowest I'd place Piccolo is Base Goku (RoF) / Final Form Frieza-tier, which is still likely worlds above anyone from the Buu arc.

[Lord Beerus]

I'm really hoping for him to fall back into a pit of humility where he reclaims his job as a punching bag; this new leagues above everyone else thing just doesn't go too well with him.

Never gonna happen as long as he is a Super Saiyan Blue.

I think it's great that he's upped his game as a father and husband, but does he really have to be so buddy buddy with Goku?

I honestly think that is one of the best things about Super. Vegeta being so relaxed in Goku's company has produced some great moments between the two of them and has show how much his character has grown.

[Berserker1921]

I personally see this

Goku (base champa): 3
Pottamo: 3.1-3.5
Ssj Goku: 5.5
Ssj blue Goku: 7.5-8
Frost (1st form): 3
Frost (3rd form): 4
Frost ( final form):4.8
Piccolo (special beam cannon): 5.0
Vegeta: ssj= 5.5, Ssjblue: 7.5-8
Magenta: 6
Cabba: 5-8.5
Hit: 9-9.5
Monaca: 9-9.3

[Sora Saiyan]

I listed Piccolo down in the same tier as Base Goku (RoF), Final Form Frieza (RoF), and Final Form Frost (exhausted) in my previous post, but depending on a few variables, I could see him being a notch or two higher than that.

First and foremost, if Base Vegeta one-shots Frost, it's safe to assume that Piccolo stands a tier below the Base Saiyans (Champa). That said, I would still place him in same realm of power as Base Goku (RoF) / Final Form Frieza; anything below seems a bit far-fetched.

Piccolo's placement would also be heavily dependent on the extent of power Frost lost from fatigue.

If Vegeta one shots Frost in Base then it would make no sense as why couldn't Goku do it I know Frost is tired but I only think he is a little tired. I think it would mean Vegeta is stonger than Goku instead of Piccolo being weaker.

If Vegeta defeats Frost with one blow in base it would mean that Goku weakened Frost a hell of a lot, if you think otherwise at that point you are clearly just trying to put Piccolo much higher than the evidence shows. No other way around it, otherwise Goku would have been a totally useless sparring partner for Vegeta and fell into one shot territory. There's no way there would be such a gap between those two. Now if It takes Vegeta to go SSJ then Piccolo will have to go around, or even beyond the base Saiyans level.

[namekiansaiyan]

I listed Piccolo down in the same tier as Base Goku (RoF), Final Form Frieza (RoF), and Final Form Frost (exhausted) in my previous post, but depending on a few variables, I could see him being a notch or two higher than that.

First and foremost, if Base Vegeta one-shots Frost, it's safe to assume that Piccolo stands a tier below the Base Saiyans (Champa). That said, I would still place him in same realm of power as Base Goku (RoF) / Final Form Frieza; anything below seems a bit far-fetched.

Piccolo's placement would also be heavily dependent on the extent of power Frost lost from fatigue.

If Vegeta one shots Frost in Base then it would make no sense as why couldn't Goku do it I know Frost is tired but I only think he is a little tired. I think it would mean Vegeta is stonger than Goku instead of Piccolo being weaker.

If Vegeta defeats Frost with one blow in base it would mean that Goku weakened Frost a hell of a lot, if you think otherwise at that point you are clearly just trying to put Piccolo much higher than the evidence shows. No other way around it, otherwise Goku would have been a totally useless sparring partner for Vegeta and fell into one shot territory. There's no way there would be such a gap between those two. Now if It takes Vegeta to go SSJ then Piccolo will have to go around, or even beyond the base Saiyans level.

Piccolo made Frost tired as well because did you see how many Ki blasts Frost used during the match against Piccolo. He used a lot.

[ssbgoku]

Final Form Frieza (RoF) is likely leagues above SSJ Vegetto (Buu arc); I have the latter a few notches below enraged Vegeta (BoG), who in my opinion is a mere fodder compared to Base Goku (RoF).

I personally adhere to the following:

SSJ Vegetto (Buu arc): Too low to be on this scale
Enraged Vegeta (BoG): 1
Base Goku (RoF) = Final Form Frieza = Final Form Frost (exhausted) = Piccolo (Champa): 3
Base Goku (Champa): 3.5
Assault Form Frost: 4
Final Form Frost: 5
Piccolo (Special Beam Cannon): 5.5
SSJ Goku (BoG) = SSG Goku: 6
SSJ Goku (Champa): 6.5
SSGSS Goku (RoF): 7

Bold part, there is no way. This is correct. Once because Vegeta was only stated to suprass ssj3 goku by Master Roshi. The same bog ssj3 goku who could be at the most as powerfull as ultimate gohan buu arc, but even this is not certain if gohan already slacked with his training. Anyway the only first person said to suprass ssj vegito was first ritual absorbed all power ssj goku. I have buutenks 1.5 times stronger then ultimate gohan. Buuhan would be be 2 times stronger then ultimate gohan. Ssj vegito would be 3-5 times buuhan for sake of simplicity. Rage vegeta was either at least buuhan level or equal to him.

Enraged Vegeta (BoG): 0.2
SSJ Vegetto (Buu arc): 0.5
SSJ Vegetto (Bog arc): 0.6
SSJ2 Vegetto (Buu arc): 1
SSJ2 Vegetto (Bog arc): 1.2
SSJ2 Vegetto (Buu arc): 4
SSJ3 Vegetto (Bog arc): 4.8

Of course we don't even know if vegetto can reach ssj3 or ssj2 for sake of plot. However Beerus at 10% easily one shot enraged vegeta (bog) so he has to be at least tree times weaker then 10% beerus so 0.3 is the most rage vegeta could get.

[Sora Saiyan]

If Vegeta one shots Frost in Base then it would make no sense as why couldn't Goku do it I know Frost is tired but I only think he is a little tired. I think it would mean Vegeta is stonger than Goku instead of Piccolo being weaker.

If Vegeta defeats Frost with one blow in base it would mean that Goku weakened Frost a hell of a lot, if you think otherwise at that point you are clearly just trying to put Piccolo much higher than the evidence shows. No other way around it, otherwise Goku would have been a totally useless sparring partner for Vegeta and fell into one shot territory. There's no way there would be such a gap between those two. Now if It takes Vegeta to go SSJ then Piccolo will have to go around, or even beyond the base Saiyans level.

Piccolo made Frost tired as well because did you see how many Ki blasts Frost used during the match against Piccolo. He used a lot.

Yeah he did use a lot of Ki blasts, but they looked no different than the ones Freeza was using throughout the Freeza arc, and that did absolutely nothing to his stamina. Besides, Frost never looked like he was fatigued by Piccolo, but Goku had him falling to his knees in exhaustion. Like I said if Vegeta needs more than base then Piccolo will have to go around that level.

[ZombieVito]

If Vegeta destroys Frost in base then the whole theory of two base powers gets fucked. No way the non god base Saiyans are over Piccolo if they are just moderately stronger than their BoG self's.

[omaro34]

If Vegeta destroys Frost in base then the whole theory of two base powers gets fucked. No way the non god base Saiyans are over Piccolo if they are just moderately stronger than their BoG self's.

Frost is weakened after having engaged in two consecutive battles. Power levels are so wildly inconsistent in this series I honestly don't take them too seriously anymore and I just take them with a grain of salt.

I won't be surprised if Vegeta takes out Frost with ease.

[ZombieVito]

Oh wow I completely screwed up yesterday.

Goku doesn't tell Piccolo he will have a hard time beating Frost. He actually tells him the opposite.

It's very strange, Goku says that Piccolo's endurance/toughness/resistance is very good but it is dropping because Frost is very tough/has very good defense but Piccolo says that winning the fight will be frustrating because it will be like taking candy from a baby/kid.

[TheMikado]

Oh wow I completely screwed up yesterday.

Goku doesn't tell Piccolo he will have a hard time beating Frost. He actually tells him the opposite.

It's very strange, Goku says that Piccolo's endurance/toughness/resistance is very good but it is dropping because Frost is very tough/has very good defense but Piccolo says that winning the fight will be frustrating because it will be like taking candy from a baby/kid.

So the only way this even remotely makes sense is that SSJ Goku (Yellow) really isn't that much stronger than Frost and Piccolo is at least in the same tier of fighters as SSJ Goku, Frost, and Piccolo.

[Noah]

There's definitely some validity behind your theory; but when all is said and done, Vegeta one-shotting Frost would just be absurd.

I'm really hoping for him to fall back into a pit of humility where he reclaims his job as a punching bag; this new leagues above everyone else thing just doesn't go too well with him.

I think it's great that he's upped his game as a father and husband, but does he really have to be so buddy buddy with Goku?

Vegeta finally is the strongest Saiyan now, just like he claimed in the beginning of this series, a position that was his right, since he is a Prince, can't you just accept it?