The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Ki Breaker]

New battle:

Jiren vs (equal power to the foes he faces)

1. Roshi
2. Burter
3. Android 16
4. Perfect Cell
5. Kid Buu

Only thing going for Jiren is his power and each one of these fighters have shown better fighting instincts and techniques than what he has inuniverse, Jiren loses to every single one of them, burter as well because his speed boost should remain even at equal power..

[Helios518]

Piccolo only got a few times stronger at most, so it doesn't make sense for him to be that much stronger.

Power levels aren't linear, if they were then scaling from 1st form Freeza, the farmer should easily be a building buster (I probably lowballed this).

And Roshi went buff and got tired from destroying a mountain, which he should be able to sneeze away in base form if he could bust a full sized moon. Dragon ball is just wacky sometimes

Roshi destroyed in by an accident and hasn't used his powers in years, so he was fresh out of rustiness.

There is no stated multiplier for Frieza's forms

We know that Namek 1st form Freeza's power was 530,000 and Namek 4th form was 120,000,000. Divide 4th form by 1st form and there's your multiplier.

his training could of affected the power difference.

"Could" but nothing suggesting it did changed it so it head-canon until stated otherwise.

Also that is only Frieza when he is buff, which he wasn't when he fought base Goku.

It's still clear that Freeza was using a significant percentage (maybe 50%) because when Goku called him out on not going all-out, Freeza didn't go %100 but immediately to Gold suggesting that 100% wouldn't have given that much of an increase.

I can't take a scene with ki dragons seriously.

That's on you're if you're choosing to ignore a serious scene because you don't like it.

Pretty sure there was a line in Super as well.

Well the burden of proof is on you to find it.

Toriyama is more involved with the manga and the anime is supposed to be his vision, so if anything I think the writers were taking liberates in episode 12.

That doesn't stop the anime from being its own continuity with different things established from the manga (Hit's moveset, how time-skip works, how Black gets stronger, Black's moveset, SSJBKKx20, SSJRage, etc). Besides Toriyama doesn't mind or even appreciates that Toei/Toyotaro take liberties.

[dragonball0900]

There is no stated multiplier for Frieza's forms and his training could of affected the power difference. Also that is only Frieza when he is buff, which he wasn't when he fought base Goku.

Just wanting to say something here. There's no multiplier for Frieza's forms, but the way that Frieza was 530,000 in first form, and then in second he is stated to be above 1 million, and in the third he is way below 3 million, etc, I assume that Frieza had a x2 boost between all his forms. 2nd Form Frieza would be 1,060,000, 3rd Form Frieza would be 2,120,000. I agree though that his final form doesn't have an exact multiplier.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

There is no stated multiplier for Frieza's forms and his training could of affected the power difference. Also that is only Frieza when he is buff, which he wasn't when he fought base Goku.

Just wanting to say something here. There's no multiplier for Frieza's forms, but the way that Frieza was 530,000 in first form, and then in second he is stated to be above 1 million, and in the third he is way below 3 million, etc, I assume that Frieza had a x2 boost between all his forms. 2nd Form Frieza would be 1,060,000, 3rd Form Frieza would be 2,120,000. I agree though that his final form doesn't have an exact multiplier.

To be honest the multiplier 2x was between max of his 1st form and the minimum of his 2nd form, so the boost would only be the same if you're willing to place 3rd form Freeza 2x stronger than FP 2nd form Freeza, ie above 3 millions.
Though i don't see any reason for Freeza's multipliers in Super be any different from the ones in Z.

[dragonball0900]

To be honest the multiplier 2x was between max of his 1st form and the minimum of his 2nd form, so the boost would only be the same if you're willing to place 3rd form Freeza 2x stronger than FP 2nd form Freeza, ie above 3 millions.
Though i don't see any reason for Freeza's multipliers in Super be any different from the ones in Z.

Why would 1,060,000 be just the minimum of his second form? It can normally be his maximum and there would be no problem. I have him initially at around 900,000, then powers up against Gohan and is 1,000,000, then his maximum against Piccolo as 1,060,000. Weighted Piccolo is around 1,020,000, unweighted at 1,300,000. Then Frieza defeats him in 3rd Form with 2,120,000, and Vegeta gets a zenkai boost up to 2,400,000 (higher than 3rd form Frieza but weaker than 3,000,000, both Final Form Frieza and Goku are at that level).

[Hellspawn28]

Potara fusion between Dai Kaioshin and Shin vs. Kid Buu

If Shin and Dai Kaioshin did fuse against Kid Buu, could they win?

[supercat]

With the exclusion of Shin, I feel all of the Supreme Kais are at least SSJ2-tier with South Supreme Kai and Dai Kaioshin being somewhere between SSJ2 and SSJ3.

Even without a rival boost, Shin and Dai Kaioshin should be more than enough to make quick work of any form of Buu. They may not defeat Buuhan nearly as easily as SSJ Vegetto would, but I could still see them scoring the win after a somewhat decent battle. Any Buu below Buuhan would be an easy win.

[dragonball0900]

King Vegeta vs Krillin (post potential unlock, vs Guldo/Recoome). Who wins?

[Steven Bloodriver]

King Vegeta vs Krillin (post potential unlock, vs Guldo/Recoome). Who wins?

1) As long as King Vegeta does not create a Power Ball for himself to become a Great Ape, Krillin wins this confrontation against the tyrannical father of Vegeta with no problems.

2) An Immortal Yamcha, after training with King Kai for 93 years, and then getting his Potential Unlocked by Grand Elder Guru against Fourth Form Frieza from the Frieza Saga.

[dragonball0900]

Now what if Krillin (end of Frieza arc) vs Oozaru King Vegeta?

[Steven Bloodriver]

Now what if Krillin (end of Frieza arc) vs Oozaru King Vegeta?

Well, unless Great Ape King Vegeta is only slightly stronger than Krillin, Great Ape King Vegeta wins with a single punch.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Potara fusion between Dai Kaioshin and Shin vs. Kid Buu

If Shin and Dai Kaioshin did fuse against Kid Buu, could they win?

The fusion takes this with ease IMO. I think Dai is Good Boo tier, and it's unlikely Good Boo is several times weaker than the original Boo, while the Potara is implied to be a huge multiplier even for failed fusions ie Kibitoshin.

King Vegeta vs Krillin (post potential unlock, vs Guldo/Recoome). Who wins?

King Vegeta is stated to be exactly 10k, right? Kuririn wins this after a hard fight. He has a slight power advantage, and is one of the most skilled fighters of the series.

Now what if Krillin (end of Frieza arc) vs Oozaru King Vegeta?

Kuririn one shots. If Vegeta considered him useful against Freeza and considered power as a factor, i don't see him anywhere below 200k.

[Noah]

Strongest Z character current 18 can beat?

[Zamasu55]

Strongest Z character current 18 can beat?

Thanks to Toei, I can't answer to this question.

[Lord Beerus]

Strongest Z character current 18 can beat?

I'd say either Bootenks or Base Vegetto. #18 in Super certainly ain't no pushover.

[Noah]

I'd say either Bootenks or Base Vegetto. #18 in Super certainly ain't no pushover.

Something tells me you were bursting out of laughter before posting that.

[Lord Beerus]

I'd say either Bootenks or Base Vegetto. #18 in Super certainly ain't no pushover.

Something tells me you were bursting out of laughter before posting that.

At this stage, I'm pretty much become numb to the concept character's strength inflating at any given notice or for unexplored and/or contrived reasons. Dragon Ball established many years ago that's it willing to break or severely bend it's own rules to sustain the needs of the plot.So I've just take the smart option and just really stopped caring altogether. If Android 18 is really this strong, so be it.

[dragon boss z]

Power levels aren't linear, if they were then scaling from 1st form Freeza, the farmer should easily be a building buster (I probably lowballed this).

I know but the moon feats outright contradict other feats. Ignoring those the DC level in dragon ball was pretty concistent

Roshi: mountain level
King Piccolo: city + level
Piccolo 23rd: large island level
Raditz: casual mountain range level
Nappa: casual multi city level
Recoom: Planet warper level
Frieza: Planet level
Cell: solar system level (statement alone)

Casually vaporizing the moon (fi it is full sized) is pretty much on the same level as Frieza destroying the core of Namek, or at the very least better than every other feat besides that one.

Roshi destroyed in by an accident and hasn't used his powers in years, so he was fresh out of rustiness.

I agree, but at the very least it means he thought he couldn't of put out the fire while in base.

We know that Namek 1st form Freeza's power was 530,000 and Namek 4th form was 120,000,000. Divide 4th form by 1st form and there's your multiplier.

That was his current boost in power from transformation. A power boost from a transformation is not the same thing as a stated multiplier such as ssj, which may not of even stayed the same. Any amount of training could of affected how his transformations boosted his power and he wasn't at 100% when fighting base Goku anyways making that entire point irrelevant.

"Could" but nothing suggesting it did changed it so it head-canon until stated otherwise.

That multiplier is your head canon as well. I'm not saying there wrong, but like I said a transformation doesn't have to be a multiplier. A transformation could be an addition as well, not to mention Frieza's transformations aren't power amplifiers, they are power restricters which makes it different as well. there are just too many variables to say it is a static multiplier, and like I said even if it is your argument is invalid due to Frieza not being at 100%.

It's still clear that Freeza was using a significant percentage (maybe 50%) because when Goku called him out on not going all-out, Freeza didn't go %100 but immediately to Gold suggesting that 100% wouldn't have given that much of an increase.

I agree when Frieza powered up to attack SSB while still in his final form he probably went to 50-70%. But we don't know about when he was fighting base Goku.

That's on you're if you're choosing to ignore a serious scene because you don't like it.

No, I took them as being universal when I first saw it, but after continually watching Super I realized Goku most likely wasn't universal back then. A universal threat yes, but not a universe buster.

Well the burden of proof is on you to find it.

I was looking through the crunchy roll subs of ep 13 and Whis said Beerus probably expected his fight with SSG to destroy a few planets, but this was more than expected and Whis said the world would end, not universe, but that may be a translation thing.

[dragon boss z]

There is no stated multiplier for Frieza's forms and his training could of affected the power difference. Also that is only Frieza when he is buff, which he wasn't when he fought base Goku.

Just wanting to say something here. There's no multiplier for Frieza's forms, but the way that Frieza was 530,000 in first form, and then in second he is stated to be above 1 million, and in the third he is way below 3 million, etc, I assume that Frieza had a x2 boost between all his forms. 2nd Form Frieza would be 1,060,000, 3rd Form Frieza would be 2,120,000. I agree though that his final form doesn't have an exact multiplier.

Ya I think about the same thing.

[Helios518]

I know but the moon feats outright contradict other feats. Ignoring those the DC level in dragon ball was pretty concistent

Roshi: mountain level
King Piccolo: city + level
Piccolo 23rd: large island level
Raditz: casual mountain range level
Nappa: casual multi city level
Recoom: Planet warper level
Frieza: Planet level
Cell: solar system level (statement alone)

Casually vaporizing the moon (fi it is full sized) is pretty much on the same level as Frieza destroying the core of Namek, or at the very least better than every other feat besides that one.

There's about zero feats that contradicts about moon-busting.

That was his current boost in power from transformation. A power boost from a transformation is not the same thing as a stated multiplier such as ssj, which may not of even stayed the same. Any amount of training could of affected how his transformations boosted his power and he wasn't at 100% when fighting base Goku anyways making that entire point irrelevant.

You're still assuming it did change at all though which would be fair but we clearly see Freeza still not master his 100%

That multiplier is your head canon as well. I'm not saying there wrong, but like I said a transformation doesn't have to be a multiplier. A transformation could be an addition as well, not to mention Frieza's transformations aren't power amplifiers, they are power restricters which makes it different as well. there are just too many variables to say it is a static multiplier,

Every time we've were told how a transformation works, we were told its a multiplier. Sure, you could substract

and like I said even if it is your argument is invalid due to Frieza not being at 100%.

It's not invalid because of the quote below.

It's still clear that Freeza was using a significant percentage (maybe 50%) because when Goku called him out on not going all-out, Freeza didn't go %100 but immediately to Gold suggesting that 100% wouldn't have given that much of an increase.

I agree when Frieza powered up to attack SSB while still in his final form he probably went to 50-70%. But we don't know about when he was fighting base Goku.

No, I took them as being universal when I first saw it, but after continually watching Super I realized Goku most likely wasn't universal back then. A universal threat yes, but not a universe buster.

Nothing in Super has contradicted that god-tiers are universal.

I was looking through the crunchy roll subs of ep 13 and Whis said Beerus probably expected his fight with SSG to destroy a few planets, but this was more than expected and Whis said the world would end, not universe, but that may be a translation thing.

1) the world could also mean the universe and 2) even if he just meant Earth was going to get destroyed, the world/Earth would still be destroyed if the universe is as well