"Sparking! ZERO" Official Announcement, Pre-, & Post-Release Discussion Thread

[angeldreamZ004]

The kids that these shows, comics and video games don't care about what is or isn't 'canon' or created by Toriyama Akira. They don't care which Bardock makes them seem like a manly man because one of them has a different backstory from the other.
What they care about is getting to play the characters that they grew up on and think are cool. That might wind up being a Heroes character, a character from a special that Toriyama was not involved in or it will likely be Super Saiyan Blue Zero He's Gonna Help You Find the Way.
It really do implore adult fans to get away from word tribalism about these things because they just aren't important.

I believe you're answering my previous post. Well, the thing is that I actually talked about the company perspective. As I think they show a pattern, which is prioritizing Toriayma characters first, and that you can notice it when it comes to more obscure characters, or characters that originated from outside the main anime and manga media. That's why we got characters like Shallot, Android 21 outside of their own games. Mira and Towa originated in a game that has been shut down more than a decade ago, still, they decided to include them in both Xenoverse games, Kakarot, Heroes, Dokkan, etc. The only reason I think they did this was because they are creations from Toriyama.
So the fact that Shallot for example, doesn't appear with any of his transformations, I believe it's because Toriyama only designed his base form.
And you mentioned Heroes, so, none of the Heroes characters show up outside of Heroes itself, with the exception of Dokkan Battle, Superdivers which brought back Xeno Goku as far as I know, and Xenoverse 1 had Chronoa and Demigra, but if I'm not wrong, they were created for that game.
I believe that, if they add those characters in the future, they will add as many characters created by Toriyama first, there are still stuff like Arale, the Tamigamis, characters from the manga that can still be added, the extra movie characters he designed, then after alll these I think we'll start seeing stuff like Hatchiyak. Maybe they could add Neko Majin characters too, but I think it's very unlikely, despite being Toriyama creation too.

But I hope they add everything even the most obscure characters in the future, both Toriyama and non-Toriyama, i'm a Pro-Shula and Tenlong in this game

[JulieYBM]

The kids that these shows, comics and video games don't care about what is or isn't 'canon' or created by Toriyama Akira. They don't care which Bardock makes them seem like a manly man because one of them has a different backstory from the other.
What they care about is getting to play the characters that they grew up on and think are cool. That might wind up being a Heroes character, a character from a special that Toriyama was not involved in or it will likely be Super Saiyan Blue Zero He's Gonna Help You Find the Way.
It really do implore adult fans to get away from word tribalism about these things because they just aren't important.

I believe you're answering my previous post. Well, the thing is that I actually talked about the company perspective. As I think they show a pattern, which is prioritizing Toriayma characters first, and that you can notice it when it comes to more obscure characters, or characters that originated from outside the main anime and manga media. That's why we got characters like Shallot, Android 21 outside of their own games. Mira and Towa originated in a game that has been shut down more than a decade ago, still, they decided to include them in both Xenoverse games, Kakarot, Heroes, Dokkan, etc. The only reason I think they did this was because they are creations from Toriyama.
So the fact that Shallot for example, doesn't appear with any of his transformations, I believe it's because Toriyama only designed his base form.
And you mentioned Heroes, so, none of the Heroes characters show up outside of Heroes itself, with the exception of Dokkan Battle, Superdivers which brought back Xeno Goku as far as I know, and Xenoverse 1 had Chronoa and Demigra, but if I'm not wrong, they were created for that game.
I believe that, if they add those characters in the future, they will add as many characters created by Toriyama first, there are still stuff like Arale, the Tamigamis, characters from the manga that can still be added, the extra movie characters he designed, then after alll these I think we'll start seeing stuff like Hatchiyak. Maybe they could add Neko Majin characters too, but I think it's very unlikely, despite being Toriyama creation too.

But I hope they add everything even the most obscure characters in the future, both Toriyama and non-Toriyama, i'm a Pro-Shula and Tenlong in this game

I'm making a generalized comments about how fans treat the different 'eras' of the franchise and different versions of the characters and then wind up having these weird inter-series antagonism towards things like there's a competition going on.

There is no competition. Like what you like and don't obsess over silly things like which fan has the best toys—the answer is that nobody does.

[angeldreamZ004]

Ops, my bad then. I agree here, they simply go for what they know that will sell regardless of what's going on in the fandom and its divisions.

[Mr Baggins]

Bretty good DLC. Thoughts below.

Favorite part of the expansion:

Easily the new roguelike mode, what the hell?! That is insanely addictive for something I'd only given a passing glance at during the trailers and presentations.

I got my ass handed to me, then realized that's the point – you'll walk away from each run with something gained, whether that's higher stats for your character or just improving your grip over the mechanics since it throws you into the deep end pretty quickly. Love all of the little risk-reward choices here that add to the experience and can cost you the entire run too if you're not careful. Bingo for the unique character intros.

Good shit, Spike!

Least favorite part of the expansion:

Unironically the roster additions. Thrilled as I am that my boy Jaco is finally here, most of these characters are just BT3 pity picks aimed at placating people complaining they weren't in the base game. A few inclusions were worth it, but so many of these guys aren't particularly interesting. I reckon that one youtuber petitioning daily for a playable Nam can die happy now.

It's no coincidence that the characters completely new to the series are unanimously the ones everyone has been most excited about. More of that when METEOR comes around, please.

There also should have been more outfits/accessories, and customization options shouldn't be so limited. Just give everyone the damn halo!

Favorite NEO fighters:

Jaco, Chilled, Tournament Goku, Demon King Piccolo, and Cheelai. In that order.

Oh and uhh using Super 17 as a punching bag

[The Dark Knight]

Thankfully Episode of Bardock hasn’t been referenced in any of the officially continuing stories, though Toyotaro came dangerously close with his storytelling in the Granolah arc.

I'm going to be honest, the Granola arc is the worst arc I have ever encountered, be it in a manga or anime. Besides the present day story being very poorly structured, the story set in the past that followed Bardock undermined everything the franchise had been built on up to that point; does Toyotaro not know the most basic rules of writing ?

[Grimlock]

I personally don't mind these kinds of characters (be it Ssj Bardock or all the other what-if Ssjs we have) in the games, as it's all mindless fun, but I don't like it when that level of nonsense makes it into the manga and anime; I think those mediums should be held to a higher standard.

Then you've already lost that battle, seeing as there are far more nonsensical stuff in the manga and anime than Super Saiyan Bardock and other Super Saiyans.

Well, the thing is that I actually talked about the company perspective. As I think they show a pattern, which is prioritizing Toriayma characters first, and that you can notice it when it comes to more obscure characters, or characters that originated from outside the main anime and manga media. That's why we got characters like Shallot, Android 21 outside of their own games. Mira and Towa originated in a game that has been shut down more than a decade ago, still, they decided to include them in both Xenoverse games, Kakarot, Heroes, Dokkan, etc. The only reason I think they did this was because they are creations from Toriyama.
So the fact that Shallot for example, doesn't appear with any of his transformations, I believe it's because Toriyama only designed his base form.
And you mentioned Heroes, so, none of the Heroes characters show up outside of Heroes itself, with the exception of Dokkan Battle, Superdivers which brought back Xeno Goku as far as I know, and Xenoverse 1 had Chronoa and Demigra, but if I'm not wrong, they were created for that game.
I believe that, if they add those characters in the future, they will add as many characters created by Toriyama first, there are still stuff like Arale, the Tamigamis, characters from the manga that can still be added, the extra movie characters he designed, then after alll these I think we'll start seeing stuff like Hatchiyak. Maybe they could add Neko Majin characters too, but I think it's very unlikely, despite being Toriyama creation too.

But I hope they add everything even the most obscure characters in the future, both Toriyama and non-Toriyama, i'm a Pro-Shula and Tenlong in this game

If that was the case, Ozotto would also make more appearances. In fact, I would credit any future appearance of his to Dragon Ball Heroes and the popularity he got there. But things like this always boil down to a variety of reasons that go beyond just "Toriyama created them". We will never know what are their criteria and reasons for their choices, so no point in speculating this.

[The Dark Knight]

Then you've already lost that battle, seeing as there are far more nonsensical stuff in the manga and anime than Super Saiyan Bardock and other Super Saiyans.

I agree as far as Super is concerned, but not the original DB & Z. That's not to say I agreed with everything those two did, but they at least had some logic behind them that made me understand why those decisions were made; Super on the other hand just did whatever without even attempting to justify it.

[The S]

It really do implore adult fans to get away from word tribalism about these things because they just aren't important.

This part

[angeldreamZ004]

If that was the case, Ozotto would also make more appearances. In fact, I would credit any future appearance of his to Dragon Ball Heroes and the popularity he got there. But things like this always boil down to a variety of reasons that go beyond just "Toriyama created them". We will never know what are their criteria and reasons for their choices, so no point in speculating this.

Well if we don't know what are the reasons they do these things, I believe it's good enough of a reason for us to speculate and make our theories about it. I feel those behind the franchise have been making some weird decisions lately, and I think a pattern seen is the over reliance on Toriyama's name or what was created by him and has some popularity, and I see strange coincidences everywhere.
From Xenoverse 3 in particular I have strong Toriyama-centric feeling with it, from the interviews, to the creative part, the marketing. And in the case of the game in the topic which is Sparking Zero, before they decided to make this new DLC (which a lot of its content was actually cut from the base game), they decided to make DLC featuring the characters created by Toriyama from the last two animated projects he was involved (Super Hero & Daima), so it has this coincidence of them prioritizing the two most recent Toriyama creations before jumping into missing cut characters. Then, they decided to add a character originated from a mobile game, which a lot of people in the larger fandom just don't care about, but has a loyal sub-fandom which is big enough to keep it alive after 8 years. But this same game has the coincidence that its original character was designed by Toriyama. And the Sparking Zero version of that character has the another strange coincidence of not featuring any of his transformations seen in the mobile game, but those transformations also have the coincidence of not being Toriyama creations.

I know that this can be just me and I can be wrong though, and you can present good counterpoints for these (for the Sparking Zero first DLCs I believe you can simply say that it was all because Super Hero and Daima were the content still fresh at the time, so people would be more excited to buy them due to the recent memory), but I still like and think it's interesting to share these different viewpoints nonetheless as they can point out something potentially subtle, even though can be proven wrong in the future and I'm open to that, or we may never know it, which is fine by me too because we can continue speculating forever. And if it's for a variety of reasons I think it's even better, as we can connect different perspectives and maybe form a larger picture.

About Majin Ozotto i agree.

[Scsigs]

Overall I still think Episode of Bardock is dumb and the idea of SSBardock bores me to all hell but this has made me appreciate Chilled more.

I personally don't mind these kinds of characters (be it Ssj Bardock or all the other what-if Ssjs we have) in the games, as it's all mindless fun, but I don't like it when that level of nonsense makes it into the manga and anime; I think those mediums should be held to a higher standard.

Super Saiyan Bardock is from a non-canon one shot manga & anime OVA. That's literally where he & Chilled come from.

Super did way stupider things to get more Super Saiyans, if we're being honest. The U6 Saiyans, I don't mind them unlocking SS, but them getting even stronger than that in such a short amount of time is so nonsensical because they wanted to catch them up to their U7 counterparts. Next tot hat, SS Bardock doesn't seem so bad since it's just SS1 & Bardock has an actual emotional break that unlocks the form.

[The Dark Knight]

Super Saiyan Bardock is from a non-canon one shot manga & anime OVA. That's literally where he & Chilled come from.

I know, but that doesn't change how I feel about the mediums of anime and manga; I just don't think these kinds of concepts should be given that treatment. I know Ssj Bardock was part of a one-off OVA, I just don't think it should've been.

The U6 Saiyans, I don't mind them unlocking SS, but them getting even stronger than that in such a short amount of time is so nonsensical because they wanted to catch them up to their U7 counterparts.

I would've preferred if Cabba had not unlocked Ssj1 until the tournament of power, as that would've been a clear sign of character development from when we last saw him. I would've kept Kale limited to her berserk form, and Caulifla wouldn't have gotten any form. This would be followed up in a proper Planet Sadal arc, where Goku, not Vegeta, would take Cabba under his wing as a result of recognizing his potential. Kale would be trained by Gohan, as he would be the closest to know about losing control. As for Caulifla, it would be Vegeta who would see his old self in her who struggled to go Ssj, making him the ideal teacher for her. Like most of Super though, they were more interested in getting to the finish line as quick as possible, rather than taking their time to give these stories and character arcs the proper time they needed to unfold naturally.

[JulieYBM]

All commercial anime and manga are commercials for selling a product, that's why they're called commercial art. Gundam and Cowboy Bebop exist to sell toys and models. The fact that those two managed to have a production crew that bent over backwards to make commercials with meaning is a triumph of not only their skills but their ability to overcome the constraints of capitalism.

Dragon Ball is not always so lucky as to be in a position to create an artist work on the level of, say, Kidou Senshi Gundam (1979) and that, of course, sucks for artists and those who enjoy art. What that should teach us, though, is that the things we like and the things that we do not like all ultimately exist on the same plane of being just a hair's breath away from being considered useless.

Which is my long-winded way of saying: everything is fake and gay. Trying to create a hierarchy of importance within a commercial franchise just divides us against the IP holders. It's pickme-ism and ultimately pointless because having some minor character or form from a special or whatever doesn't effect anyone except the kid who's happy to get to turn Gorgopussyfuck into a Super Saiyan Strawberry 69,420 while playing Dragon Ball Mega Chocolate Cream Pie XXX Pachinko METERO ZERO (now on sale for $69.69).

[Zinnia]

Damn the movesets for Super 17 and Piccolo Daimao are very lackluster, especially compared to how much they had in BT3. Very disappointing after all this wait.

[The Dark Knight]

Seriously, what the HFIL is up with the story mode's difficulty ? on reduced difficulty the character just stands there and does nothing, then on normal difficulty you can't lay a finger on it. Before anyone points out that I suck at fighting games, I know , but it was not this broken before.

[Xaroc]

Not sure what happened with this Update. I tried the new Mode on EASY with buying Upgrades and all and got beaten to a pulp with barely getting hits in myself by the first Enemy. Used Practise Mode to get Super Counter Timing down a little bit better. Doesn't work outside of Practise.

And even the new Story Modes are HARD! Survive Freeza as Kuririn or defeat him FAST. Yeah, I get it, FAST, but not within 20 Seconds.
Or survive 2nd Cell as Kuririn or defeat him FAST. But in this one it doesn't seem to matter, because if the CPU decides to use Taiyoken in the first 10 Seconds you can just hit Retry. Or you do manage to "defeat" him only for him to go Invincible Mode with 1 HP and still absorb C18. Seriously.

This is just not fun. And I want it to be fun. And I don't mean in a "the CPU should just stand there" Way.

[Mr Baggins]

Yeah, the standard CPU difficulty is way overtuned right now. I suspect this is because back at launch, the hardest difficulty settings were somewhat trivial if you knew what you were doing, so they've been tweaking that to be actually hard while working backwards to make the lower/normal settings harder as well to compensate for the curve.

Most developers in this situation just add new difficulty settings without messing with the existing ones. They probably had very skilled players playtest as well, which is a common rookie mistake from less experienced fighting developers.

I can handle it, but more casual players are bound to hit some roadblocks. They should fix this.

[The Dark Knight]

This is just not fun. And I want it to be fun. And I don't mean in a "the CPU should just stand there" Way.

This is why I constantly find myself going back to Tenkaichi 3 (specifically BT4's mod), as that game is just more balanced; it never feels unfair even on the hardest difficulty. I'm not asking for the CPU to not fight back, but unfortunately, the game is now designed so that I can't fight back.