Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Zarely]

In Heroes what is stronger between Ultra Instinct Goku and Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta?

[Zamasu55]

In Heroes what is stronger between Ultra Instinct Goku and Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta?

Probably Gogeta.

[Kenneth La Torre]

i mean, i am a supporter that fusion > UI or at least as strong, I also thought that anyone who took heroes as evidence for the canon was committing a grave mistake (turns out i was right), but heroes did mess up big time here

either they should have kept their scaling, that being UI > Fusion in their continuity
or they should have never had vegito blue in the first place against cumber.

[Hugo Boss]

I think Dragon Ball Heroes anime simply has Gogeta > Hearts > Ultra Instinct > Vegetto.

[Grand Marshal 1]

In Heroes what is stronger between Ultra Instinct Goku and Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta?

Equals in my book.

In Heroes I believe that UI will be the last stand, thus placed above Blue Fusions.

[Kenneth La Torre]

I think Dragon Ball Heroes anime simply has Gogeta > Hearts > Ultra Instinct > Vegetto.

well, thats a huge problem if you know that fusion dance and potara should be at bare minimum equal.


and all three continuities have (Had, cause its likely no more) different scaling for UI and fusion.
the game treated it as almost equals, the manga had ssbkk vegito go up against golden great ape cumber, so my guess where UI stacks up there.
and the anime was the first out of the three continuities to outright have UI far above a potara fusion, and not just a simple ssb potara fusion, but above a 20x amped ssb fusion.

In Heroes what is stronger between Ultra Instinct Goku and Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta?

Equals in my book.

thats how i see it. I'm always opened to the possibility of being wrong tho.

[Kenneth La Torre]

BTW, i am aware that using those waffer stickers to prove a point is stupid, but i just remembered that there was a vegito sticker, the one that went up against cumber, with a power level of 9300, the power level that only FT arc vegito should have, and it got me thinking that maybe that vegito was treated as if it was as strong as back then.

we already have an updated vegito along with gogeta at 9800, 200 points more than UI Goku from the ToP.

but thats if you care about the stickers, because i dont.

[Koitsukai]

The first arc of the Heroes anime had UI Goku incredibly stronger than Vegito Blue KK. We have to wait for next episode to see if they introduce UI again or mention it at least, but if they don't then Heroes would've portrayed UI stronger than blue fusion.

I really hope it's just a Gogeta Blue episode because the last one was so boring.

[Kenneth La Torre]

i knew this shit was gonna happen. and all of the people who actually took its scaling into canon are now confused, because they really took a game as actual evidence...
now in the anime, you have gogeta blue vastly above ssbkk vegito.


let this be a lesson to the people who took heroes as a legit source for having UI > Fusion.

[Zarely]

But why Is Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta stronger than Hearts after absorbing the seed and Super Saiyan Blue Vegito was half as strong as base Cunber?

[Hugo Boss]

Are there any other “legit” sources to how Ultra Instinct and Blue fusions compare?

[Block88]

But why Is Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta stronger than Hearts after absorbing the seed and Super Saiyan Blue Vegito was half as strong as base Cunber?

Because anime powerscaling is a joke

[Block88]

i knew this shit was gonna happen. and all of the people who actually took its scaling into canon are now confused, because they really took a game as actual evidence...
now in the anime, you have gogeta blue vastly above ssbkk vegito.


let this be a lesson to the people who took heroes as a legit source for having UI > Fusion.

People shouldn’t even took it seriously in the first place heroes varies on who’s superior in every medium
Ssjb vegito could fight ssj Cumber in the game without needing kaioken at all while the manga had him stalemate golden great ape Cumber

[Hugo Boss]

there was a vegito sticker, the one that went up against cumber, with a power level of 9300, the power level that only FT arc vegito should have, and it got me thinking that maybe that vegito was treated as if it was as strong as back then.

I don’t recall this specific version of Vegetto you commented. As far as I saw, there are only two Blue Vegetto stickers. The Zamas Arc one with 9,300 (with reprints) and Vol.13 with 9,800 (the final kamehameha version).

[ZombieVito]

there was a vegito sticker, the one that went up against cumber, with a power level of 9300, the power level that only FT arc vegito should have, and it got me thinking that maybe that vegito was treated as if it was as strong as back then.

I don’t recall this specific version of Vegetto you commented. As far as I saw, there are only two Blue Vegetto stickers. The Zamas Arc one with 9,300 (with reprints) and Vol.13 with 9,800 (the final kamehameha version).

I didn't know there was one for the Final Kamehameha. So according to the stickers that attack is stronger than Gogeta, Jiren and Broly.

Neat.

[Hugo Boss]

I didn't know there was one for the Final Kamehameha. So according to the stickers that attack is stronger than Gogeta, Jiren and Broly.

Neat.

It’s tied with Gogeta’s eletric shockwave that he used against Broly just before he used the kamehameha. Both have the highest printed number to this date (9,800).

[Omgzord]

But why Is Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta stronger than Hearts after absorbing the seed and Super Saiyan Blue Vegito was half as strong as base Cunber?

Because anime scaling is stupid. I could wrong, but Vegito beats Cumber in the game with Blue alone.

[Omgzord]

Are there any other “legit” sources to how Ultra Instinct and Blue fusions compare?

I don't think a comparison was ever made. It's not like DBH made compassion either, people just saw heroes anime a year ago and jumped the gun about the UI/Fusion debate.

For what is worth, one magazine during the hype leading up to the Broly movie, called fusion the "Ultimate Trump Card" so take that how you like.

EDIT: There's also the "stickers power level" which put every version of Blue Gogeta above UI Goku and Jiren.

[Zarely]

Well Ultra Instinct Goku was definitely stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Vegito in the anime. In fact even Golden Cooler seemed much stronger too.

Jiren though is a chump in the anime.

[ankokudaishogun]

Let's ignore the promo anime and just use the arcade.
Feel free to correct me if I got something wrong

• Both Vegetto Blue and V4 did manage to win against SSCumber and SS3 Cumber respectively.
• Goku Blue and Goku:Xeno 4 are more or less on the same level, with Goku Blue having a small edge.
• There is no reason to believe Vegeta:Xeno is much stronger than Vegeta:UM
• Therefore Vegetto Blue and V4 should be more or less equal
• This means SSCumber is stronger than Fusion God, but Fusion Blue(and 4) are more than 8 times stronger than SSCumber
• It also means Vegetto Blue wasn't going full-power against SS Cumber.
• It's unclear if V4 was going full-power against SS3 Cumber or not.

So:
Vegetto Blue~V4>SS3 Cumber>Vegetto Blue(not full power)>SSCumber>Goku Blue~Goku:Xeno 4

MUI is enough to fight SS3 Cumber, but because it's unclear the amount of effort V4 used to fight him, it's impossible to gauge if it's stronger, equal or weaker than V4 and therefore Blue

Likewise SFP Jiren was stated by Cumber being the strongest he ever faced.
This implies SFP Jiren is stronger than Goku MUI by a sensible amount, enough for Cumber to go excited enough and go Full Power SS3

It also implies Jiren was stronger than V4 as well. But as aforementioned, we don't know the amount of effort the fused Time Patroller used to fight Cumber.
It's possible V4(and therefore Vegetto Blue) was still stronger than Jiren, but didn't exerted his full might.
As well it's worth to remember SFP Jiren was fighting SS3 Cumber, Fused Zamasu and Hearts at the same time