Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Koitsukai]

So, how much do you guys think SSB Goku (or Vegeta I guess) can supress their power? like even at their weakest SSB output, would they still oneshot an android saga/Namek level character? or even at its most supressed, a quite high level level of power is needed to survive it?

[Zarely]

So, how much do you guys think SSB Goku (or Vegeta I guess) can supress their power?

Enough so that Goku could match Krillin Kamehameha and he overpowered Fused Zamasu at one point.

The TOEI special. Inconsistent writing. Before, Kale owns Blue Goku. Then a stronger version of Kale gets handled by SSJ2 Goku.
While Caulifla is fighting alongside her. Then Kale proceeds to trade back and forth evenly with Red Goku. The writers don't even cross notes.

So there ain't an in universe answer for it?

Final Frieza confuses me as well. He easily overpowered Napapa who Super Saiyan Caulifla had slight trouble with and she was about as strong as Super Saiyan Goku but Frieza should be as strong as Base Goku shouldn't he?

But then Frieza easily beat the Yadrat who was kicking around Base Gohan who fought on par with Base Goku.

In the manga I'm sure Frieza even had an advantage on Super Saiyan Caulifla.

[Miracles]

So, how much do you guys think SSB Goku (or Vegeta I guess) can supress their power?

Enough so that Goku could match Krillin Kamehameha and he overpowered Fused Zamasu at one point.

The TOEI special. Inconsistent writing. Before, Kale owns Blue Goku. Then a stronger version of Kale gets handled by SSJ2 Goku.
While Caulifla is fighting alongside her. Then Kale proceeds to trade back and forth evenly with Red Goku. The writers don't even cross notes.

So there ain't an in universe answer for it?

Final Frieza confuses me as well. He easily overpowered Napapa who Super Saiyan Caulifla had slight trouble with and she was about as strong as Super Saiyan Goku but Frieza should be as strong as Base Goku shouldn't he?

But then Frieza easily beat the Yadrat who was kicking around Base Gohan who fought on par with Base Goku.

In the manga I'm sure Frieza even had an advantage on Super Saiyan Caulifla.

FF Freeza was boxing with Dyspo who was pounding Hit into the ground. FF freeza is super strong when he needs to be.
As for Kale, she did overpower Blue Goku in both the anime/manga. She is so formidable that Golden Freeza would have to get serious to fight her in the manga as well. Since both had Kale Blue level, it's safe to say she is Blue status.

[Zarely]

Well how could Final Form Frieza have got so strong when he was only equal to Base Goku before?

Golden Frieza wasn't leaps and bounds stronger than Super Saiyan Blue they were equal so you'd think the same would be true for the other form.

[Hugo Boss]

Freeza’s true form performs sometimes similar to Base Goku sometimes similar to SS Goku. Even in the same fight, when Goku and Freeza fought together against Jiren, Freeza’s final push rivaled SS Goku’s own.

I believe that despite what the anime and the movie did, Freeza’s true form is supposed to rival SS Goku, since they historically have that chemistry. The DBSuper manga treats this matter a little better.

[Koitsukai]

Well how could Final Form Frieza have got so strong when he was only equal to Base Goku before?

Golden Frieza wasn't leaps and bounds stronger than Super Saiyan Blue they were equal so you'd think the same would be true for the other form.

The out-of-universe response would be that RoF was not thought through at all, not like in the great scheme of things like BoG but like in its very own world. Also, to me Golden Freeza was indeed stronger than Blue, but placing Beerus, Whis and Vegeta next to the fight diminishes its impact and of course we have no tension at all. Freeza's poor control over his new power doesn't do it justice either.

The in-universe response would be that he was always that strong since RoF, but now he has more control over said power(due to doing some mental training in hell) not just in his Golden form. The manga is implying now with Vegeta that controlling it can boost it incredibly.

Otherwise, he would've had to become physically stronger in hell, but how? I can buy the mental training, but assuming he is stronger would retcon how bodies work and how hell works, and that is some mastered ultra headcanon that I can't attain at the moment.

[p-hyvo]

So, how much do you guys think SSB Goku (or Vegeta I guess) can supress their power? like even at their weakest SSB output, would they still oneshot an android saga/Namek level character? or even at its most supressed, a quite high level level of power is needed to survive it?

Theres no limit to suppression.
No matter the form they are in, they can get ti be as weak as the turtle if they want

[Miracles]

Goku holding back in Blue is a TOEI narrative flop. Completely contradicts established plot of going god.

[Omgzord]

So, how much do you guys think SSB Goku (or Vegeta I guess) can supress their power? like even at their weakest SSB output, would they still oneshot an android saga/Namek level character? or even at its most supressed, a quite high level level of power is needed to survive it?

Theres no limit to suppression.
No matter the form they are in, they can get ti be as weak as the turtle if they want

But that sound stupid though. What is the point of going blue if Goku will use less power than he does in base?

Toei's "holding back" excuses never made sense. They simply nerfed Goku to makes even the likes of Krillin look good.

[Miracles]

So, how much do you guys think SSB Goku (or Vegeta I guess) can supress their power? like even at their weakest SSB output, would they still oneshot an android saga/Namek level character? or even at its most supressed, a quite high level level of power is needed to survive it?

Theres no limit to suppression.
No matter the form they are in, they can get ti be as weak as the turtle if they want

But that sound stupid though. What is the point of going blue if Goku will use less power than he does in base?

Toei's "holding back" excuses never made sense. They simply nerfed Goku to makes even the likes of Krillin look good.

Bingo.
For one to become SSG/SSGSS you must control ki from seeping out in order to obtain that god aura.
TOEI making Goku go Blue against Krillin to hold back when he could of stayed in base/SS contradicts DB narration.

[Zarely]

Sounds like this show just has really bad writing to be honest.

[ZombieVito]

Alright well what about Kale? How was she stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Goku at one point and then weaker than Super Saiyan God Goku the next time around even though they said Kale had grown stronger?

Kale was never stronger than Blue Goku.

Goku was suppressed as confirmed by him and Belmod a few episodes after the fight.

[Miracles]

Sounds like this show just has really bad writing to be honest.

It does. The anime contradicts plot points all the time. Another example is they went into the TOP with a plan to use Blue sparingly cause it eats up too much power. Yet TOEI had Goku and Vegeta toss it out like candy throughout the fight.

Even in the manga, we had small time Roshi dodging Jiren with a bootleg UI. Regardless it should not have happened since Roshi's level is so weak.

[GodVegetto91]

Sounds like this show just has really bad writing to be honest.

Still not as bad as Heroes, lol

[Zarely]

Goku was suppressed as confirmed by him and Belmod a few episodes after the fight.

What episode was that? I'm up to 103 and that hasn't been said.

Still not as bad as Heroes, lol

Well Heroes is fine for what it is. It's just a fan service promotional anime. It's not really that important what the scaling is there.

[ZombieVito]

Goku was suppressed as confirmed by him and Belmod a few episodes after the fight.

What episode was that? I'm up to 103 and that hasn't been said.

Still not as bad as Heroes, lol

Well Heroes is fine for what it is. It's just a fan service promotional anime. It's not really that important what the scaling is there.

Goku says it in the same episode the fight is in and Belmod says it in 109.

[Hugo Boss]

If Goku wasn’t using kaioken in the ToP, he was certainly holding back.

[Omgzord]

About 95% of the actual fighters in the ToP were never a threat Goku or even universe 7 for that matter.

You can't expect Goku to go Blue Kaio-ken everytime.

[Miracles]

Nowhere was it stated that Goku was holding back in Blue. Besides that headcanon just contradicts TOEI's plot line of Goku/Vegeta trying to use Blue sparingly since it drains too much energy. To use Blue just so they could hold back in order to waste energy is counterproductive.

[ZombieVito]

Nowhere was it stated that Goku was holding back in Blue. Besides that headcanon just contradicts TOEI's plot line of Goku/Vegeta trying to use Blue sparingly since it drains too much energy. To use Blue just so they could hold back in order to waste energy is counterproductive.

It was.

Goku himself says he will use only a little more power while going Blue and Belmod said Goku was going to finally go full power in Blue right before his fight with Jiren.