Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

Kai's subs make it a question. No offence to Herms but I'll take a official translation over a fan one.

[RandomGuy96]

Kai is the anime, and therefore completely irrelevant to me. If going by the anime, yeah, I'd have Piccolo higher than Super Vegeta... and also Vegeta at the Cell Games. By a mile.

[ZombieVito]

The dialogue stays true to the manga as close as possible..

[RandomGuy96]

Then would you mind finding the quote from the manga?

I don't know if this applies to anything else, but I've heard that the Viz translation of the manga changes a lot of lines for speech bubble purposes, while Herms translates them literally. I at least know that they changed a certain line during the Buu Saga to make Piccolo seem stronger than he is. Hence why I'm using Herms' translations for my list.

[dbzfan7]

Then would you mind finding the quote from the manga?

I don't know if this applies to anything else, but I've heard that the Viz translation of the manga changes a lot of lines for speech bubble purposes, while Herms translates them literally. I at least know that they changed a certain line during the Buu Saga to make Piccolo seem stronger than he is. Hence why I'm using Herms' translations for my list.

From the VizBig I own

Goku: Hey...Piccolo! Did you go in the Room of Spirit and Time?

Piccolo: Indeed

Goku: I can tell! You look a lot stronger!

Piccolo: Why don't you just say it? I've grown much stronger...But I still can't do much against Cell.

Goku: Well...Duh.

Piccolo: Hmph. I suppose I asked for that one... So what do you want here?

So basically it says the same thing.

[RandomGuy96]

Well. That's good to know. Thanks.

So yeah, it isn't implied anywhere that Piccolo is above Super Vegeta. Though he is implied to be close to him at least, since Trunks is shocked when he Goku says that Piccolo can't do anything to Cell.

What do you think of my new list, by the way?

[dbzfan7]

Well. That's good to know. Thanks.

So yeah, it isn't implied anywhere that Piccolo is above Super Vegeta. Though he is implied to be close to him at least, since Trunks is shocked when he Goku says that Piccolo can't do anything to Cell.

What do you think of my new list, by the way?

Too tired to look too far into it. It's 5:00am. It's a good list that avoids over bloating for the most part. I personally have Piccolo above the kids as he was dominate inside Super Boo. A reason for this is because Bootenks could use the full 30 minutes of fusion even though SSJ3 Gotenks only has 5 minutes before he defuses. So he should have full access to there powers if he could keep using Gotenks full power beyond 5 minutes. But's that's just me. I also would never put the humans that high.

I'm thinking of making Kid Boo stronger as he could hold off the Genki Dama which probably holds more power than FP SSJ3 Goku and push it back. Though that could be considered just the weight of the attack. To tired to think it through.

[RandomGuy96]

Thanks. I don't put a lot of stock into Piccolo's cape popping up on Super Buu; the kids still influenced his appearance significantly, going by his hands and facial features. He looks much different with just Piccolo absorbed. It's also never stated that the dominant one in Buu (which I don't think Piccolo was, he just was more dominant than he was when Gotenks was in there) is the strongest. In fact we have at least one example of the exact opposite happening, with South Kaioshin and Grand Kaioshin. Also, now I have Goten = Gohan, as the Daizenshuu says, so now I don't feel like a hypocrite whenever I bring that up...

Also also, Piccolo called the kids "Earth's last hope" before he even knew about fusion. Them. Not him. Their power up also freaked Piccolo out.

Yeah... I have the humans that high mostly because of Gero saying he can get a lot of energy for them. Also because Piccolo was implied to gain an absurd amount of power from doing the same training as the humans for a week. I admit it's not a lot to go on, but it is something, and I prefer to follow in-universe logic rather than dismissing things out of hand. If Gero says absorbing the humans energy will give him an edge over Vegeta, I have no reason not to believe him, since he has a built in scouter and all. I try not to over complicate things too much.

I don't know how to take the Genki Dama scene. If anything it would suggest he's actually waaaaay stronger than Goku and was just toying the whole time, since his Kamehameha failed to deflect it while he did it with his bare hands when he panicked.

[dbzfan7]

Thanks. I don't put a lot of stock into Piccolo's cape popping up on Super Buu; the kids still influenced his appearance significantly, going by his hands and facial features. He looks much different with just Piccolo absorbed. It's also never stated that the dominant one in Buu (which I don't think Piccolo was, he just was more dominant than he was when Gotenks was in there) is the strongest. In fact we have at least one example of the exact opposite happening, with South Kaioshin and Grand Kaioshin. Also, now I have Goten = Gohan, as the Daizenshuu says, so now I don't feel like a hypocrite whenever I bring that up...

Also also, Piccolo called the kids "Earth's last hope" before he even knew about fusion. Them. Not him. Their power up also freaked Piccolo out.

Yeah... I have the humans that high mostly because of Gero saying he can get a lot of energy for them. Also because Piccolo was implied to gain an absurd amount of power from doing the same training as the humans for a week. I admit it's not a lot to go on, but it is something, and I prefer to follow in-universe logic rather than dismissing things out of hand. If Gero says absorbing the humans energy will give him an edge over Vegeta, I have no reason not to believe him, since he has a built in scouter and all. I try not to over complicate things too much.

I don't know how to take the Genki Dama scene. If anything it would suggest he's actually waaaaay stronger than Goku and was just toying the whole time, since his Kamehameha failed to deflect it while he did it with his bare hands when he panicked.

Still seems to me Piccolo's traits stand the most dominant. The whole the boys can be the only hope can mean a number of things. If they are this strong now then through the ROSAT they can become much stronger in a short time. I also don't know exactly when that quote was mentioned. Wouldn't you freak out if you could bench 200 and some 8 year old could bench 180. I would freak too.

Its possible. But I can't see the humans making such a large gains. Stronger than first form Freeza seems too much to me.

I haven't decided how to determine the Genki-Dama scene.

[RandomGuy96]

I would think that the boys were the ones effecting him more, since they morphed his body, while Piccolo just gave him a piece of clothing. We know that the strongest isn't the most dominant all the time, as evidenced by Fat Buu. And I think something important to note in that scene is Piccolo is freaked out while Goku is not.

[dbzfan7]

I would think that the boys were the ones effecting him more, since they morphed his body, while Piccolo just gave him a piece of clothing. We know that the strongest isn't the most dominant all the time, as evidenced by Fat Buu. And I think something important to note in that scene is Piccolo is freaked out while Goku is not.

I don't see what the boys really contributed to the absorption. All they gave him was fingers. Piccolo turban is the thing that sticks out most which leads me to believe he has the biggest impact. Also Goku says Piccolo's coming out strong now which to me means he has the biggest influence now on Super Boo's power. Goku is significantly stronger than them. The boys IMO are about in Piccolo's league. Wouldn't you be terrified by Kids who are practically in your league when they are so young.

Chapter: 502 (DBZ 308), P10.4-5
Goku: “Hahha—ah! Piccolo’s coming out strong now! Looks like the Fused squirts have returned to normal! You ran out of time! Tooo—oo bad! Your power’s fallen a whole lot. Cheh…I’m a little disappointed. This way, Gohan will be able to beat you even on his own…”
Note: presumably be saying that "the Fused squirts have returned to normal", Goku means that Gotenks has split back up into Goten and Trunks, not merely that Gotenks' reverted from Super Saiyan 3 to regular Gotenks. At the very least, Goten and Trunks are separate by the time Goku and Vegeta find them inside of Boo.

[RandomGuy96]

They also changed his face. Buuccolo has the same facial features as Buutenks. They morphed his face and his hands; I'd say that's a lot more significant than giving him a piece of clothing. Notice how he gets less fingers, less human facial features, and a different shirt after reverting to Piccolo-only Buu.

I don't think that really proves anything other than Piccolo was influencing Buu more now. Even if he was the dominant one (and I don't think he is), it wouldn't mean a lot, since as I said, there's nothing about the strongest absorption in Buu being the most dominant, and we have at least one example of the opposite happening.

[dbzfan7]

They also changed his face. Buuccolo has the same facial features as Buutenks.

I don't think that really proves anything other than Piccolo was influencing Buu more now. Even if he was the dominant one (and I don't think he is), it wouldn't mean a lot, since as I said, there's nothing about the strongest absorption in Buu being the most dominant, and we have at least one example of the opposite happening.

I'm pretty sure coming out strong now pretty much means he is the dominant influence. Why else say "Piccolo is coming out strong now." That's because Gotenks was coming out strong before. Only difference I notice is fingers and clothes.

[RandomGuy96]

Even so, him being the dominant influence wouldn't mean he's stronger.

It could just mean that... Piccolo is coming out strong now. As opposed to coming out weak before. He's having some influence as opposed to having none.

Buutenks gets a more pronounced forehead and grows a nose.

[dbzfan7]

Even so, him being the dominant influence wouldn't mean he's stronger.

Coming out strongest pretty much sounds like it is to me. Both Boocollo's look practically the same facial wise. You can theorize it wouldn't. I'm just justifying my reasoning for having Piccolo above the kids. These are unofficial levels. We don't have to share who is stronger than who on everything.

[RandomGuy96]

Yeah, I know. There's nothing wrong with using that as evidence; I used to do that myself. It's just not definitive or conclusive.

[dbzfan7]

Yeah, I know. There's nothing wrong with using that as evidence; I used to do that myself. It's just not definitive or conclusive.

So are many things. I'm just justifying my reasoning, not forcing down beliefs. Some people have Gotenks below Majin Vegeta early on, some don't use the Daiz at all, some go by Goten=Gohan (as you do now but I don't). There are many variables to go by.

[Kamiccolo9]

"Piccolo coming out strong" could just mean that the intelligence gained from Piccolo is more influential than the essentially negligible gains that Goten and Trunks gave to Buu's power. Thus, since the Piccolo traits are the most important, Piccolo is the dominant absorption.

[hleV]

Piccolo is stronger than base boys.

[ZombieVito]

Damn it, I can't find the quote (I do remember seeing it in an old forum that got haxed) but:

Though he is implied to be close to him at least, since Trunks is shocked when he Goku says that Piccolo can't do anything to Cell.

This makes no sense at all. Why is Trunks surprised at Goku telling Piccolo he would lose if hes = Super Vegeta? Everyone knows a fighter of that level would not do a thing, why the shock?

To be honest that implies Piccolo is >= SSJ Grade 3 Trunks.