Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

So what we got in this latest episode.

Vegeta turns Super Saiyan against Frost so it looks like even though he had weakened after two fights he was still above the base saiyans which is what should make sense. It looks like it does confirm Piccolo > base saiyans as well.

Super Saiyan Vegeta one shots Frost while restraining himself, it's still enough to send him crashing against the dome and break it so Piccolo being able to....was it just crack it? or did he put a hole on it? Either way it's nothing special.

Vegeta also turned Super Saiyan against Magetta and from the looks of it he'll have a much harder time than what the Super Saiyans had with Frost. So it looks like Magetta is probably stronger than Frost.

[ZombieVito]

Why the hell aren't they turning Super Saiyan Blue?

[Khin]

Why the hell aren't they turning Super Saiyan Blue?

Based on the description that was leaked few days ago.Magetta will give Vegeta a hard time,forcing him to go ''Chou'' Super Saiyan (Which is probably the Blue form).

[Lord Frieza]

So what we got in this latest episode.

Vegeta turns Super Saiyan against Frost so it looks like even though he had weakened after two fights he was still above the base saiyans which is what should make sense. It looks like it does confirm Piccolo > base saiyans as well.

Super Saiyan Vegeta one shots Frost while restraining himself, it's still enough to send him crashing against the dome and break it so Piccolo being able to....was it just crack it? or did he put a hole on it? Either way it's nothing special.

Vegeta also turned Super Saiyan against Magetta and from the looks of it he'll have a much harder time than what the Super Saiyans had with Frost. So it looks like Magetta is probably stronger than Frost.

I was hopeing the metal man would be strong and he didn't disappoint, those lava attacks were cool. Although he has a very strange way of powering up.

[Bullza]

If Magetta is gonna force Vegeta to turn Super Saiyan Blue then it would seem that Magetta is stronger than a Super Saiyan.

At this rate I'd guess the strenght of the Universe 7 members has something to do with the order they're fighting in so

Hit > Cabba > Magetta > Frost > Botamo

[TheMikado]

So what exactly is going on now.

Do they have God Ki in their base form or not?
Is Piccolo now stronger than base form God Ki?
Is SSB gone or not and how are these people all on God levels.

How can we even gauge power levels at this point?

[Bullza]

Still no way of really knowing but them not using the God Ki theory still fits. I'm still going with that being the case.

I can't see all these characters being God tier. Beerus has been alive a couple hundred million years and he got that strong. We really supposed to believe Piccolo could get anywhere close to that with just some basic sparring?

From what we've seen so far I'm going with this

Magetta - 1,000+
SSJ Goku - 1,000
SSJ Vegeta - 1,000
Frost Final Form - 830
Piccolo - 600
Frost Third Form - 22
Goku - 20
Vegeta - 20
Botamo - 18

[ArchedThunder]

So what exactly is going on now.

Do they have God Ki in their base form or not?

No, it was mentioned in the F arc when Goku went Blue they could no longer sense him. Super Saiyan Blue is taping into God Ki with Super Saiyan.

[TheMikado]

Still no way of really knowing but them not using the God Ki theory still fits. I'm still going with that being the case.

I can't see all these characters being God tier. Beerus has been alive a couple hundred million years and he got that strong. We really supposed to believe Piccolo could get anywhere close to that with just some basic sparring?

From what we've seen so far I'm going with this

Magetta - 1,000+
SSJ Goku - 1,000
SSJ Vegeta - 1,000
Frost Final Form - 830
Piccolo - 600
Frost Third Form - 22
Goku - 20
Vegeta - 20
Botamo - 18

If the gap is that big between Botamo and Magetta then why even bring him to the tournament? Furthermore if Cabba is even stronger as people are suggesting why didn't they get one of Cabba's saiyan buddies to come along, unless there is something about Cabba that's super special.

Furthermore others are implying that they don't have God power in base but we see Vegeta and Goku are dramatically stronger even in base with their normal Ki having absorbed God Ki or has that been reconned already??

[TheMikado]

So what exactly is going on now.

Do they have God Ki in their base form or not?

No, it was mentioned in the F arc when Goku went Blue they could no longer sense him. Super Saiyan Blue is taping into God Ki with Super Saiyan.

I posted this in the transformation thread but sense this is about power levels I realized it may be more appropriate to ask here:

Can someone please explain where we are with this SSG Ki infusion? So does base Goku and Vegeta have God Ki or not? In F they can sense base Goku but they also state the God Ki power infused in their normal Ki allows Goku to take on Frieza in base.

My issue right now is Piccolo.
Fighting final form frost required both Vegeta and Goku to go SSJ.
This implies Piccolo > Base Goku/Vegeta for the Piccolo to stand a chance vs Frost.
That's fine except we see base Goku >Final form Frieza with Piccolo being one shotted by Frieza meaning it looked like this: Base Goku > Frieza>>>>>>Piccolo.
Yet suddenly he seems to have leapfrogged all that. Is this accurate and what exactly is base Goku and Vegetas form? God Ki infused or not? Furthermore what us the actual power level of these forms?

My understanding is that base always had God Ki infused as normal ki meaning they retained God Ki power as normal Ki?

[ArchedThunder]

So what exactly is going on now.

Do they have God Ki in their base form or not?

No, it was mentioned in the F arc when Goku went Blue they could no longer sense him. Super Saiyan Blue is taping into God Ki with Super Saiyan.

I posted this in the transformation thread but sense this is about power levels I realized it may be more appropriate to ask here:

Can someone please explain where we are with this SSG Ki infusion? So does base Goku and Vegeta have God Ki or not? In F they can sense base Goku but they also state the God Ki power infused in their normal Ki allows Goku to take on Frieza in base.

My issue right now is Piccolo.
Fighting final form frost required both Vegeta and Goku to go SSJ.
This implies Piccolo > Base Goku/Vegeta for the Piccolo to stand a chance vs Frost.
That's fine except we see base Goku >Final form Frieza with Piccolo being one shotted by Frieza meaning it looked like this: Base Goku > Frieza>>>>>>Piccolo.
Yet suddenly he seems to have leapfrogged all that. Is this accurate and what exactly is base Goku and Vegetas form? God Ki infused or not? Furthermore what us the actual power level of these forms?

My understanding is that base always had God Ki infused as normal ki meaning they retained God Ki power as normal Ki?

I don't remember this being said at all. Goku's base for is just stronger now thanks to his body learning form being Super Saiyan God. Super Saiyan after dropping out of God was as strong as God, his base form is weaker than that. We don't know exactly how strong Blue is other than being stronger than God. Vegeta as strong as Goku is because of his training.
Goku and Vegeta do not have God Ki unless they go Blue.

Goku was massively more powerful than Frost when he went SSJ and it's not really clear how strong Final Form Frost is compared to base Goku, Goku wasn't hurt by Assault Form Frost and was thanking him for the warm up, for all we know Base Goku could still be stronger than Final Form Frost, Goku just went SSJ to force him to transform. By the time Frost fights Piccolo he's been heavily worn down and Piccolo decides he can't win normally.
Nothing really implies Vegeta needed to go SSJ either, he just did.

[Speedster]

Even in episode 23 they showed us the blue form for the episode 24 NEP despite being the first reveal. So as it is not in the NEP of ep.35 I am going to assume that this super duper SSJ form of Vegeta is going to be the golden form again. Is it just me who thinks that the SSJ Blue form is gone for good like the various SSJ grades (grade 2 and 3) in the Cell arc in favour of the good, old, standard (in appearance) SSJ form?

[Bullza]

If the gap is that big between Botamo and Magetta then why even bring him to the tournament?

His ability to negate both physical and energy attacks made him more useful than his power level? If it wasn't for the smart thinking of pushing him over and throwing him out the ring (which did surprise the others) then he'd be near unstoppable. Goku said under normal circumstances he probably wouldn't beat him.

Furthermore if Cabba is even stronger as people are suggesting why didn't they get one of Cabba's saiyan buddies to come along, unless there is something about Cabba that's super special.

Well perhaps Cabba is to the U7 Saiyans what Goku and Vegeta are to the U6 Saiyans and just an extraordinary stand out, a one of a kind.

Furthermore others are implying that they don't have God power in base but we see Vegeta and Goku are dramatically stronger even in base with their normal Ki having absorbed God Ki or has that been reconned already??

I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to here but the theory is that the base Goku and Vegeta that fought Frieza in the RoF arc are using the God power and so are drastically more powerful than the base Goku and Vegeta fighting in this tournament so far.

[TheMikado]

Even in episode 23 they showed us the blue form for the episode 24 NEP despite being the first reveal. So as it is not in the NEP of ep.35 I am going to assume that this super duper SSJ form of Vegeta is going to be the golden form again. Is it just me who thinks that the SSJ Blue form is gone for good like the various SSJ grades (grade 2 and 3) in the Cell arc in favour of the good, old, standard (in appearance) SSJ form?

I thought is was gone for good since we saw the manga of Goku as SSJ vs Frost.

[TheMikado]

Furthermore others are implying that they don't have God power in base but we see Vegeta and Goku are dramatically stronger even in base with their normal Ki having absorbed God Ki or has that been reconned already??

I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to here but the theory is that the base Goku and Vegeta that fought Frieza in the RoF arc are using the God power and so are drastically more powerful than the base Goku and Vegeta fighting in this tournament so far.

No where are we told they can turn it on and off in their base form. In fact they have been consistently using it because even in RoF they can be sensed in base WHILE using God Ki. It's only when going SSB that they cannot be sensed anymore. That said since it's never said they can turn it off in base form once acquired it would assumed to be always on unless otherwise stated. We can't just make up new rules to how it works because it fits what we personally think should happen. It's stated Goku can obtain and incorporate God Ki into his normal without much effort and even unknowingly doing it. Seems like that's how it works and it's been working in the previous two arcs.

[TheMikado]

Final thoughts on Magenta's power level. He doesn't seem that strong to me and definitely not very fast. Seems his primary power is elemental. Even his lava blast wasn't enough to do anything to the barrier when Vegeta did a single punch and knocked so hard he knocked frost into it and broke it. Vegeta doesn't even bother to go SSJ or even block his attacks. The only attack Vegeta did seemed to imply his body was made of super hard metal and nothing to do with actual power.

I'm sure it will hurt if he hits Vegeta due to that metal but I doubt it would actually injure him. To me, Magetta minus his elemental powers looks weaker than frost and maybe botoma levels of power.

[ArchedThunder]

Blue's not gone, when Goku lost against Frost Beerus said he should have used his full power and he would have won and Goku said that he thought Super Saiyan would be enough to beat Frost.
And if Blue was gone they'd probably recolor Goku and Vegeta at the end of the Opening to be regular SSJ instead of Blue as well.

[Bullza]

No where are we told they can turn it on and off in their base form.

We haven't been told that's why it's a theory. One to explain Piccolo's power.

Because again it was perfectly clear that Goku in his base form in the RoF arc was leagues upon leagues ahead of Piccolo. Goku then trains on Beerus' planet with Whis' special training suit and then spends 3 years in the ROSAT.

Meanwhile Piccolo just trained on Earth with the much weaker Gohan for a fraction of the training time and now he's far surpassed Goku and Super Saiyan God.

So we're supposed to believe that Piccolo could give Beerus a good run for his money now and he got hundreds of times more powerful and yet nobody has commented on that at all?

In fact they have been consistently using it because even in RoF they can be sensed in base WHILE using God Ki.

It might not have had anything to do with that. Goku had learned to power up his Ki internally without letting it leak out which could be why they couldn't sense him.

[Khin]

- Meanwhile Piccolo just trained on Earth with the much weaker Gohan for a fraction of the training time and now he's far surpassed Goku and Super Saiyan God.
- So we're supposed to believe that Piccolo could give Beerus a good run for his money now and he got hundreds of times more powerful and yet nobody has commented on that at all?

• Gohan even in Base is way stronger than Piccolo.
• The same as how no commented about how Goku's Base or SSj ki being way lower than the previous arcs.Also Goku noted Piccolo in the NEP of episode 33 as becoming far stronger than before.

[ZombieVito]

- Meanwhile Piccolo just trained on Earth with the much weaker Gohan for a fraction of the training time and now he's far surpassed Goku and Super Saiyan God.
- So we're supposed to believe that Piccolo could give Beerus a good run for his money now and he got hundreds of times more powerful and yet nobody has commented on that at all?

• Gohan even in Base is way stronger than Piccolo.
• The same as how no commented about how Goku's Base or SSj ki being way lower than the previous arcs.Also Goku noted Piccolo in the NEP of episode 33 as becoming far stronger than before.

Not according to Dragon team.