"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[HeroR]

People talking about Tenshinhan vs Kuririn and don't even mention the fact that this article suggests Kuririn, Tenshinhan and Roshi are all stronger than Goten and Trunks? They're specifically said to be the 10 strongest ones from Earth.

This proves why they were included, not enough people cares about them for them to be included.

Throughout the franchise the amount of characters that are 'not relevant" seems to increase as the series goes on. In other words he can't be bothered to think of ways to make the characters useful so drops them.

That's becomes Toriyama moves on from characters once he's done with them. It has been that way since forever. The entire human cast got dumped in favor of the likes of Piccolo, Gohan, Vegeta, and later Goten and Trunks. Toriyama has actually been using the cast more often overall since Piccolo has yet to go the way of Tien.

So it isn't him being 'lazy'. It him deciding who he wants to used to advance his story. If that character isn't it, down the tubes you go. Which is fine since trying to make every character important gets you one of the problems with One Piece during the Dressrosa Saga. Everyone had to fight no matter how small, which stalled the main story.

It depends on what you care about as a fan. I care more about the characters and fights in shonen then I do the story. As long as the story makes sense and is not stupid then I don't care gow good it is. This is why I am excited for the tournament.

In official polls, Goten and Trunks buries Krillin and especially Tien. Tien in fact barely made the top 20 in the Dragon Ball Forever poll.

I care about both, but I hate when the story gets bloated down by needless fighting that feels like padding. If I have to sacrifice cast for a linear story with more meaningful fights, so be it.

I'm not really sure what give Goku and co the right to gamble and decide to switch the planet and everyone on it to another universe they really know nothing about it I guess the plot armor will protect them so whatever. I think I clearly stated it doesn't matter if it's Gokus fault or not the point being is that he's always involved and by some action causes the situation they are in. You can talk about Beerus coming to Earth anyway but maybe grovelinf mau have put them on a position where they didn't need to fight him, idk. I'm just merely point out that whatever actions Goku does always ends up with people dying/potentially dying or at best making a big risk that wasn't previously present.

Nothing was at stake. If the Earth was moved, no big deal. No one dies and they still would be under the mercy of a God of Destruction, except they would trade Champa for Beerus, which isn't that bad considering that Champa seems less petty than Beerus. Most of the people on Earth wouldn't even realized that they changed universes. Hell, they believe Mr. Satan is the strongest being in the universe and ki usage is just a fancy light show. And that isn't what plot armor means.

Beerus put the Earth in more danger than Goku since he brought Monaka the 'strongest mortal in U7'.

Beerus was going to Earth because he was looking for a Super Saiyan God. He was in fact heading there where Goku interrupted him. The person who put the Earth in danger was Buu since he refused to share pudding. Goku was the very reason why the Earth wasn't nuked since Goku fighting Beerus wouldn't changed Beerus going to Earth, asking for pudding, and Buu eating it all.

[TheMikado]

I swear Dragon Ball is the only series where you see people complain that the main character is involved in the story.

Yeah not what I'm saying at all. There's a big difference between self defense against and inevitable confrontation and proactively and antagonistic behavior and or at best willful neglect. That's always been a complaint is that the Z warriors get painted as heroes by the fandom when they are pretty clearly written as anti-heroes who pretty much are the cause of many of their own problems particularly in Z portion and beyond.

[HeroR]

I swear Dragon Ball is the only series where you see people complain that the main character is involved in the story.

Yeah not what I'm saying at all. There's a big difference between self defense against and inevitable confrontation and proactively and antagonistic behavior and or at best willful neglect. That's always been a complaint is that the Z warriors get painted as heroes by the fandom when they are pretty clearly written as anti-heroes who pretty much are the cause of many of their own problems particularly in Z portion and beyond.

Even in Japan they're viewed as heroes. It's just Japan has a different view on what a hero is compared to the modern west. I suggest you look up the greek heroes to see what was considered heroic back in the ancient west.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Herms translation says, Goku's "further evolution"..
He trains in ki control and stamina increase with krillin too..
Guys, getting a very strong vibe of something big coming form Goku, perhaps a perfected god form?

Super Saiyan White... but seriously I think it might be like the Cell arc where he'll be SSGSS like it's his normal or we'll get another loop hole of Goku having a new form but not new form.

Also why is Goku not training with Whis? Wonder if they had a fallout?

[TheMikado]

Nothing was at stake. If the Earth was moved, no big deal. No one dies and they still would be under the mercy of a God of Destruction, except they would trade Champa for Beerus, which isn't that bad considering that Champa seems less petty than Beerus. Most of the people on Earth wouldn't even realized that they changed universes. Hell, they believe Mr. Satan is the strongest being in the universe and ki usage is just a fancy light show. And that isn't what plot armor means.

Beerus put the Earth in more danger than Goku since he brought Monaka the 'strongest mortal in U7'.

Beerus was going to Earth because he was looking for a Super Saiyan God. He was in fact heading there where Goku interrupted him. The person who put the Earth in danger was Buu since he refused to share pudding. Goku was the very reason why the Earth wasn't nuked since Goku fighting Beerus wouldn't changed Beerus going to Earth, asking for pudding, and Buu eating it all.

You're making a lot of assumptions about a guy who was about to kill his own team for losing a tournament. I'm stating that we don't know what would have happened and your saying absolutely nothing would have happened... I feel like Gokus thought process is being normalized here. It's not normal to think this way and that's the point of these characters. The fact that we normalize this is the failure I'm talking about. The characters as individuals are selfish and flawed but somehow their line of thinking is deemed heroic when I don't think that was even Toriyamas intentions. But anyway we can talk about Buu endangering the Earth if you want but I fail to see how that excuses Goku from antagonizing the God of destruction whether he was looking for him or not.

[Lord Beerus]

I'm really looking forward to the prospect of Goku and Krillin training together again. It'll just be like the old-school days of Dragon Ball. Hell, given that Roshi is taking part in the tournament, I'd love to see an episode with Goku and Krillin getting schooled by the Old Hermit himself again. Out of all the throwbacks Super have done so far, that would be the one I would have the greatest pleasure of seeing.

[Draconic]

I swear Dragon Ball is the only series where you see people complain that the main character is involved in the story.

Yeah not what I'm saying at all. There's a big difference between self defense against and inevitable confrontation and proactively and antagonistic behavior and or at best willful neglect. That's always been a complaint is that the Z warriors get painted as heroes by the fandom when they are pretty clearly written as anti-heroes who pretty much are the cause of many of their own problems particularly in Z portion and beyond.

You are telling me this like I am the one who's said is tired of Goku putting lives at risk. Not only is that wrong for every single example you said, but even if it weren't it's not a problem. Dragon Ball characters are not superheroes, or anti-heroes. They are the heroes of a story that's not about good and evil but about fighting the strongest people.

[Kagari]

I swear Dragon Ball is the only series where you see people complain that the main character is involved in the story.

People complain about things in just about every series there is.

[namekiansaiyan]

I hope Vegeta doesn't get replaced. I like seeing Vegeta do battle stuff.

Vegeta is too big of a character to take out of the story.

I can see them doing different things with him but he'll always be a main fighter alongside Goku, weather it's during the tournament or against whoever they'll fight in the next arc.

No character is too big to be taken out of the story.

I swear Dragon Ball is the only series where you see people complain that the main character is involved in the story.

People complain about things in just about every series there is.

In shonen series' where they are many characters and episodes/chapters many people end up liking different characters and feel they would be able to take big roles in the series instead of the main character dominating all the time.

[HeroR]

You're making a lot of assumptions about a guy who was about to kill his own team for losing a tournament. I'm stating that we don't know what would have happened and your saying absolutely nothing would have happened... I feel like Gokus thought process is being normalized here. It's not normal to think this way and that's the point of these characters. The fact that we normalize this is the failure I'm talking about. The characters as individuals are selfish and flawed but somehow their line of thinking is deemed heroic when I don't think that was even Toriyamas intentions. But anyway we can talk about Buu endangering the Earth if you want but I fail to see how that excuses Goku from antagonizing the God of destruction whether he was looking for him or not.

Trying to kill his own team is bad. Beerus blow up half a planet over greasy desert. So yes, Champa comes off as less petty even if he did kill his team. We know what will happened, Champa will used the Earth as a takeout planet, just as Beerus and Whis does. He isn't going to destroy it since it makes food that he likes.

Goku isn't normal, so why should I pretend he has normal thoughts. Anyone who was raised in a forest by themselves for most of their life isn't going to be normal by sociality standards even if they weren't an alien.

They're actions are some times selfish, no one argues that, but in the end their hearts are usually in the right place. So by the standards of their society, they're heroic. Doesn't matter if you agree with that. Just as Jason and Hercules were deemed heroic in their time, despite doing things that would be considered morally questionable by today's standards.

Goku antagonizing the God of Destruction has nothing to do with the Earth being in danger. I suggest you look at BOG again.

[Ki Breaker]

No character is too big to be taken out of the story.

Even Goku?

[TheMikado]

I swear Dragon Ball is the only series where you see people complain that the main character is involved in the story.

Yeah not what I'm saying at all. There's a big difference between self defense against and inevitable confrontation and proactively and antagonistic behavior and or at best willful neglect. That's always been a complaint is that the Z warriors get painted as heroes by the fandom when they are pretty clearly written as anti-heroes who pretty much are the cause of many of their own problems particularly in Z portion and beyond.

You are telling me this like I am the one who's said is tired of Goku putting lives at risk. Not only is that wrong for every single example you said, but even if it weren't it's not a problem. Dragon Ball characters are not superheroes, or anti-heroes. They are the heroes of a story that's not about good and evil but about fighting the strongest people.

Look we have to agree to disagree then, my statement was pretty much clear. Gokus involvement often escalates the situation. Yes he eventually resolves it, but typically only after he's had an hand in escalating it further.

[namekiansaiyan]

No character is too big to be taken out of the story.

Even Goku?

Wasn't Gohan going to be the main character with Goku staying with king kai in other world.

[Kanassa]

You're making a lot of assumptions about a guy who was about to kill his own team for losing a tournament. I'm stating that we don't know what would have happened and your saying absolutely nothing would have happened... I feel like Gokus thought process is being normalized here. It's not normal to think this way and that's the point of these characters. The fact that we normalize this is the failure I'm talking about.

What's normal doesn't matter here, what's being said is that two planets being switched when Earth has no connection to any civilisation in space. At worst, Jaco and the King are gonna have one more empty planet in their galaxy. If Earth was a planet that was important in the universe, maybe had frequent interactions with friendly aliens and became maybe some sort of hot spot (Like how it was treated in DragonBall Online), then it suddenly being carted away to another universe would be bad.

The characters as individuals are selfish and flawed but somehow their line of thinking is deemed heroic when I don't think that was even Toriyamas intentions.

No one here is saying they are heroic. Stating that something is justifiable or isn't that shitty of an act isn't saying it's heroic.

But anyway we can talk about Buu endangering the Earth if you want but I fail to see how that excuses Goku from antagonizing the God of destruction whether he was looking for him or not

Goku didn't antagonise Beerus, he asked Beerus to fight him; which Beerus was perfectly content with doing. At worst, he was rude for underestimating the God of Destruction. This in no way affected or impacted Beerus's intentions aside from having him write off Goku as the possible God.

[Kagari]

No character is too big to be taken out of the story.

Even Goku?

He was for a time! Let's also not forget the constant sidelining he got put through from the Saiyan arc onward.

[Ki Breaker]

No character is too big to be taken out of the story.

Even Goku?

Wasn't Gohan going to be the main character with Goku staying with king kai in other world.

He didn't end up being the main character though, no one other than goku was suited for that role..
Goku really can't be taken out of Dragonball practically.. technically yes, but it wouldn't remain Dragonball without him

[TheMikado]

You're making a lot of assumptions about a guy who was about to kill his own team for losing a tournament. I'm stating that we don't know what would have happened and your saying absolutely nothing would have happened... I feel like Gokus thought process is being normalized here. It's not normal to think this way and that's the point of these characters. The fact that we normalize this is the failure I'm talking about.

What's normal doesn't matter here, what's being said is that two planets being switched when Earth has no connection to any civilisation in space. At worst, Jaco and the King are gonna have one more empty planet in their galaxy. If Earth was a planet that was important in the universe, maybe had frequent interactions with friendly aliens and became maybe some sort of hot spot (Like how it was treated in DragonBall Online), then it suddenly being carted away to another universe would be bad.

The characters as individuals are selfish and flawed but somehow their line of thinking is deemed heroic when I don't think that was even Toriyamas intentions.

No one here is saying they are heroic. Stating that something is justifiable or isn't that shitty of an act isn't saying it's heroic.

But anyway we can talk about Buu endangering the Earth if you want but I fail to see how that excuses Goku from antagonizing the God of destruction whether he was looking for him or not

Goku didn't antagonise Beerus, he asked Beerus to fight him; which Beerus was perfectly content with doing. At worst, he was rude for underestimating the God of Destruction. This in no way affected or impacted Beerus's intentions aside from having him write off Goku as the possible God.

I'm don't even think we're in disagreement here outside of stating moving the earth to another universe to be under another God that they know nothing about isn't a risk is a bit of a stretch. We know that there still some type of Frieza like organization in the universe thanks to Frost and we know nothing about Hit or his people. I'm not seeing how that's not a risk, yes the planet moves but we have no idea what that universe reaction to Earth suddenly being there would be. Would they invade? Does Frost have family who would want to pirate and sell earth? These are risks they would know nothing about and would be gambling with the Earth and the people on it.

So yes acting like it's no big deal l even in the Dragonball universe doesn't make sense. It's still a risk. There's no real justification for that. Which is what I'm getting at. Normalizing that kind of selfish risk taking as if it was an OK decision to make is what I'm getting at.

All I've said is that whether it's Gokus fault or not situations escalate when he is involved through some actions of his. I don't see why there's disagreement on that. It's just what happens with his character, I'm just saying it would be nice if something Goku did didn't make the situation escalate for once.

[Anime Kitten]

Interesting read, though not much we didn't already know. I am confused about something, however. How come #17 and #18's titles are translated as "Androids"? I thought that was an addition on FUNimation's part.

[Kanassa]

I'm don't even think we're in disagreement here outside of stating moving the earth to another universe to be under another God that they know nothing about isn't a risk is a bit of a stretch.

No, you've been saying that Goku has been either indirectly or directly the cause of putting others in danger in Super, aside from Zamasu, I've been disagreeing with your examples.

We know that there still some type of Frieza like organization in the universe thanks to Frost and we know nothing about Hit or his people. I'm not seeing how that's not a risk, yes the planet moves but we have no idea what that universe reaction to Earth suddenly being there would be. Would they invade? Does Frost have family who would want to pirate and sell earth? These are risks they would know nothing about and would be gambling with the Earth and the people on it.

We know as much about Universe 6 as we do about 7. There's a peace keeping organisation, there's Frost's organisation (Which seems to be much less of a threat than Frieza's). Well, with 7 we know... Namek? If people invade, Goku and Vegeta would kick their asses, just like in Universe 7. The Earth is as at risk in Universe 6 than it is in 7. Hell, you could say that Universe 6 is safer because the Saiyans are there and if Kybe is anything to go by, they're compotent fighters. While the peace keepers of Universe 6 seem incompetent so far.

All I've said is that whether it's Gokus fault or not situations escalate when he is involved through some actions of his. I don't see why there's disagreement on that. It's just what happens with his character, I'm just saying it would be nice if something Goku did didn't make the situation escalate for once.

And that's what we're arguing against, in the examples you've provided only one of them have him escalate the situation. He didn't escalate the Beerus situation, only delayed Beerus. He didn't escalate the Universe 6 situation, Hit was the one who threw the final match and thus pissed Champa off.

[HeroR]

Interesting read, though not much we didn't already know. I am confused about something, however. How come #17 and #18's titles are translated as "Androids"? I thought that was an addition on FUNimation's part.

Android is a proper translation. It isn't something Funi made up.