The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[dragon boss z]

Unless he explicitly states so, its not your place to assume whats going on in Toriyama head, that's just you projecting your biases.

So you think Toriyama keeps Buu out of every arc because he hates him or something? The pretty clear reason is because he is too strong. He would of solod all of Frieza's soldiers so he was left out of the RoF arc, he would of beat everyone in U6 besides Hit so he was left out, and he would of been extremely hard to ring out in the ToP plus his candy beam and absorption power. Though I think the ToP arc he was more left out just to have Frieza come in and that was the only way Toriyama could think of replacing someone.

Also you keep forgetting that Goku and Vegeta (and Freeza in the afterlife) got multiple times stronger since the Champa saga through training and zenkais. For example, Goku needed to stack KKx10 to match Hit in the Champa arc, yet after the Black arc he can match him without it, meaning Goku and Vegeta got at least 10x stronger since then. So current base Vegeta and Goku (and Final Freeza) are definitely stronger than current base Cabba, but that doesn't change the fact that back then their bases were confirmed to be even. Nothing contradicts that, and your claims about the ToP are largely irrelevant to the topic.

Hit was always weaker than SSB goku. He only needed kaioken because of the time skip, which he probably trained to fight against. And in the manga version Hit wasn't even as strong as SSG. Also in the manga it was implied Frost wasn't on RoF Frieza's level and in the anime as well when Frieza said Frost might not be able to get a gold from but he should at least be able to go buff.

But ok, lets pretend for a second that Cabba is actually completely equal to base Vegeta. Base Goku/Vegeta's best feat is being above a rusty ssj3 Gotenks who could be stomped by mystic Gohan, who could be stomped by Buutenks, who could be stomped by base Vegito, who was about equal with Buuhan, who could be stomped by ssj Vegeto. So that would still put base Cabba at only around mystic Gohan to base Vegito tier. Nothing proves he could beat ssj Vegito.

[kn83]

Unless he explicitly states so, its not your place to assume whats going on in Toriyama head, that's just you projecting your biases.

So you think Toriyama keeps Buu out of every arc because he hates him or something? The pretty clear reason is because he is too strong. He would of solod all of Frieza's soldiers so he was left out of the RoF arc, he would of beat everyone in U6 besides Hit so he was left out, and he would of been extremely hard to ring out in the ToP plus his candy beam and absorption power. Though I think the ToP arc he was more left out just to have Frieza come in and that was the only way Toriyama could think of replacing someone.

Also you keep forgetting that Goku and Vegeta (and Freeza in the afterlife) got multiple times stronger since the Champa saga through training and zenkais. For example, Goku needed to stack KKx10 to match Hit in the Champa arc, yet after the Black arc he can match him without it, meaning Goku and Vegeta got at least 10x stronger since then. So current base Vegeta and Goku (and Final Freeza) are definitely stronger than current base Cabba, but that doesn't change the fact that back then their bases were confirmed to be even. Nothing contradicts that, and your claims about the ToP are largely irrelevant to the topic.

Hit was always weaker than SSB goku. He only needed kaioken because of the time skip, which he probably trained to fight against. And in the manga version Hit wasn't even as strong as SSG. Also in the manga it was implied Frost wasn't on RoF Frieza's level and in the anime as well when Frieza said Frost might not be able to get a gold from but he should at least be able to go buff.

But ok, lets pretend for a second that Cabba is actually completely equal to base Vegeta. Base Goku/Vegeta's best feat is being above a rusty ssj3 Gotenks who could be stomped by mystic Gohan, who could be stomped by Buutenks, who could be stomped by base Vegito, who was about equal with Buuhan, who could be stomped by ssj Vegeto. So that would still put base Cabba at only around mystic Gohan to base Vegito tier. Nothing proves he could beat ssj Vegito.

There is no evidence of Hit always being weaker than SSB in the anime, since when see him tanking and trading blows from SSBKKx10 Goku without much of an issue in the Champa arc and with normal SSB Goku after the Black arc. Goku outright stated that he need KKx10 to keep up with Hit's strength in the anime. Plus, Vegeta saying that Cabba in base=Vegeta in base is there in the manga as well. And SSJ3 Gotenks was NOT "rusty", both Goten and Trunks were confirmed to be stronger than they were in the Buu saga. Goku and Vegeta absorbing god-power into their base and surpassing that in base (overtime), then matching base Cabba shows that base Cabba>>>>>>>>all of Z easily.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Refusing to believe Cabba > Z is like refusing to believe Random Freeza Soldier > Part I. It's a different series altogether, what's in the past is in the past. It's a common theme in DB that someone is a untoucheable plateau in a arc but is fodder on the next.

[kn83]

Current Vegito Blue vs 100% Jiren
Aniraza vs Base Toppo
SSJ Goten (post-ROSAT) vs A18 (Buu arc)
GT SSJ Gohan vs Togama (Ginyu)
Current Gogeta Blue vs any God of Destruction

[dragon boss z]

There is no evidence of Hit always being weaker than SSB in the anime, since when see him tanking and trading blows from SSBKKx10 Goku without much of an issue in the Champa arc and with normal SSB Goku after the Black arc. Goku outright stated that he need KKx10 to keep up with Hit's strength in the anime.

Watch this again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcyNxVf-K8s
Even after getting serious Hit was losing to SSB Goku but only started to overcome him by improving his time skip technique. Piccolo flat out said he didn't increase his power, and Goku was clearly more powerful has he was pushing hit back. When their punches collided Hit is the one who gave out. So according tot he show without time skip SSB Goku is above Hit.

Plus, Vegeta saying that Cabba in base=Vegeta in base is there in the manga as well.

He may of been saying it to get Cabba to transform. Ssj Cabba and Vegeta seemed to be equal but then all of a sudden Cabba couldn't even hurt him anymore.

And SSJ3 Gotenks was NOT "rusty", both Goten and Trunks were confirmed to be stronger than they were in the Buu saga.

Where did you get this from? You have a source for that?

Goku and Vegeta absorbing god-power into their base and surpassing that in base (overtime), then matching base Cabba shows that base Cabba>>>>>>>>all of Z easily.

And Piccolo matched Frost who was above base Cabba. The U6 tournament took place a couple months at most after RoF. Piccolo was confirmed to be weaker than mr. Buu. There is really no way of getting around that.

Refusing to believe Cabba > Z is like refusing to believe Random Freeza Soldier > Part I. It's a different series altogether, what's in the past is in the past. It's a common theme in DB that someone is a untoucheable plateau in a arc but is fodder on the next.

Not really the same thing. Frieza soldiers were stronger than part 1 characters, but their power still made sense in the grand scheme of things. Most were even weaker than Raditz and any character who trained for a long period of time easily surpassed them. Heck even Roshi was beating a whole bunch of them in RoF. Cabba, a saiyan who doesn't even know how to go ssj, has no business being stronger than everyone from U7 before god training.

[kn83]

There is no evidence of Hit always being weaker than SSB in the anime, since when see him tanking and trading blows from SSBKKx10 Goku without much of an issue in the Champa arc and with normal SSB Goku after the Black arc. Goku outright stated that he need KKx10 to keep up with Hit's strength in the anime.

Watch this again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcyNxVf-K8s
Even after getting serious Hit was losing to SSB Goku but only started to overcome him by improving his time skip technique. Piccolo flat out said he didn't increase his power, and Goku was clearly more powerful has he was pushing hit back. When their punches collided Hit is the one who gave out. So according tot he show without time skip SSB Goku is above Hit.

Plus, Vegeta saying that Cabba in base=Vegeta in base is there in the manga as well.

He may of been saying it to get Cabba to transform. Ssj Cabba and Vegeta seemed to be equal but then all of a sudden Cabba couldn't even hurt him anymore.

And SSJ3 Gotenks was NOT "rusty", both Goten and Trunks were confirmed to be stronger than they were in the Buu saga.

Where did you get this from? You have a source for that?

Goku and Vegeta absorbing god-power into their base and surpassing that in base (overtime), then matching base Cabba shows that base Cabba>>>>>>>>all of Z easily.

And Piccolo matched Frost who was above base Cabba. The U6 tournament took place a couple months at most after RoF. Piccolo was confirmed to be weaker than mr. Buu. There is really no way of getting around that.

Refusing to believe Cabba > Z is like refusing to believe Random Freeza Soldier > Part I. It's a different series altogether, what's in the past is in the past. It's a common theme in DB that someone is a untoucheable plateau in a arc but is fodder on the next.

Not really the same thing. Frieza soldiers were stronger than part 1 characters, but their power still made sense in the grand scheme of things. Most were even weaker than Raditz and any character who trained for a long period of time easily surpassed them. Heck even Roshi was beating a whole bunch of them in RoF. Cabba, a saiyan who doesn't even know how to go ssj, has no business being stronger than everyone from U7 before god training.

1. Was it ever stated that Frost>base Cabba? That wasn't stated anywhere.

2. Vegeta said to himself in his own head that him and Cabba are equal in base during the Champa arc. He has no reason to lie to himself. There is no reason to put that line in there if Cabba wasn't god-level.:https://pm1.narvii.com/6566/db14a01ffdf ... e7d_hq.jpg

3. Cabba and the other U6 saiyans not knowing how to go SSJ doesn't really matter. SSJ is a multiplier, NOT a set tier of power. A base saiyan could be stronger than a SSJ3 if his base powerlevel was high enough. 17, Golden Freeza, Hit, Aniraza, SSJ Rage Trunks and even Jiren don't have god-ki nor had god training, yet they can compete with god level characters. God-ki was never stated to have anything to do with raw strength to begin with. All of the Kais have god-ki, yet the vast majority of them are weaker than Perfect Cell.

[dragon boss z]

1. Was it ever stated that Frost>base Cabba? That wasn't stated anywhere.

It was stated Frost was the strongest warrior in U6, and final form Frost fought ssj Goku while Cabba just got completely stomped by ssj Vegeta.

2. Vegeta said to himself in his own head that him and Cabba are equal in base during the Champa arc. He has no reason to lie to himself. There is no reason to put that line in there if Cabba wasn't god-level.:https://pm1.narvii.com/6566/db14a01ffdf ... e7d_hq.jpg

That's a mistranslation. In the correct translation he is clearly talking to Cabba out loud and the next line is him saying "at this rate the fight won't end soon" and then he asks Cabba to transform to see what he can really do. It seems like he was just trying to push Cabba to go all out on him.

3. Cabba and the other U6 saiyans not knowing how to go SSJ doesn't really matter. SSJ is a multiplier, NOT a set tier of power. A base saiyan could be stronger than a SSJ3 if his base powerlevel was high enough.

It's not like I'm saying base Cabba should be weaker than Namek Goku because he doesn't know super saiyan. I'm even ok with him being above buu saga base saiyan level. It just doesn't make sense if he is above a ssj3 in base, especially when it seems like he has gone through no real hardships in his life.

17,

A prodigy who started off stronger than 100% Frieza (I don't like how strong they made him)

Golden Freeza,

A prodigy who got a new for

Hit,

Over 1,000 years old and we know nothing about his backstory.

Aniraza,

A combination of powerful robots.

SSJ Rage Trunks

Anime only transformation. In the manga he never even surpassed ssj3 Goku.

and even Jiren don't have god-ki nor had god training,

He has had an extremely hard life and all he has done is train to get stronger. We also don't know how hold he is, how long he is been training, or how much potential he has.

yet they can compete with god level characters. God-ki was never stated to have anything to do with raw strength to begin with. All of the Kais have god-ki, yet the vast majority of them are weaker than Perfect Cell.

I'm not complaining about U6 saiyans fighting god tier characters. Ssj2 Kefla is fine, berserk Kale is fine, but base Cabba is too much.

[Sonofman]

Current Vegito Blue vs 100% Jiren
Aniraza vs Base Toppo
SSJ Goten (post-ROSAT) vs A18 (Buu arc)
GT SSJ Gohan vs Togama (Ginyu)
Current Gogeta Blue vs any God of Destruction

Vegito Blue loses because of the time limit of the fusion. Not sure how to scale his power because 100% Jiren is OP (sadly...)

Aniraza wins due to the fact that he held off 17, Gohan, Goku, Vegeta, and Frieza's energy attacks; while BASE Toppo can barely fend off SSB Goku/Vegeta without using more power IMO.

GT SSJ Gohan ties with Togama. 50/50 imo.

Gogeta Blue would lose because of the time limit of the fusion, since the Blue form would consume too much energy and thus decrease the time limit of the fusion. Same as Vegito.

[Champa The Destroyer]

Hypothetical SSBE Kaioken times 20 Goku vs full power Jiren

Goku and Vegeta train in the ROSAT for 100 years, then go to fight the Grand Priest. Can they win?

[kn83]

1. Was it ever stated that Frost>base Cabba? That wasn't stated anywhere.

It was stated Frost was the strongest warrior in U6, and final form Frost fought ssj Goku while Cabba just got completely stomped by ssj Vegeta.

2. Vegeta said to himself in his own head that him and Cabba are equal in base during the Champa arc. He has no reason to lie to himself. There is no reason to put that line in there if Cabba wasn't god-level.:https://pm1.narvii.com/6566/db14a01ffdf ... e7d_hq.jpg

That's a mistranslation. In the correct translation he is clearly talking to Cabba out loud and the next line is him saying "at this rate the fight won't end soon" and then he asks Cabba to transform to see what he can really do. It seems like he was just trying to push Cabba to go all out on him.

3. Cabba and the other U6 saiyans not knowing how to go SSJ doesn't really matter. SSJ is a multiplier, NOT a set tier of power. A base saiyan could be stronger than a SSJ3 if his base powerlevel was high enough.

It's not like I'm saying base Cabba should be weaker than Namek Goku because he doesn't know super saiyan. I'm even ok with him being above buu saga base saiyan level. It just doesn't make sense if he is above a ssj3 in base, especially when it seems like he has gone through no real hardships in his life.

17,

A prodigy who started off stronger than 100% Frieza (I don't like how strong they made him)

Golden Freeza,

A prodigy who got a new for

Hit,

Over 1,000 years old and we know nothing about his backstory.

Aniraza,

A combination of powerful robots.

SSJ Rage Trunks

Anime only transformation. In the manga he never even surpassed ssj3 Goku.

and even Jiren don't have god-ki nor had god training,

He has had an extremely hard life and all he has done is train to get stronger. We also don't know how hold he is, how long he is been training, or how much potential he has.

yet they can compete with god level characters. God-ki was never stated to have anything to do with raw strength to begin with. All of the Kais have god-ki, yet the vast majority of them are weaker than Perfect Cell.

I'm not complaining about U6 saiyans fighting god tier characters. Ssj2 Kefla is fine, berserk Kale is fine, but base Cabba is too much.

1. Show me a source for Frost being stronger than base Cabba

2. Show me source for Vegeta's line being mistranslated (sounds like a bad excuse for downplay). Even if Vegeta was talking to Cabba, the fact that base Cabba could even push that base Vegeta at all proves that he is at least relative to that level if not equal.

3. It was outright stated in the anime and manga during the Champa arc by both Cabba and the U6 Surpreme Kai that the entire U6 saiyan race fight villains and invaders everyday. So this nonsense going around in the fandom about them never training or never going through any drama has been debunked from day one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17ElUbCvxpA

4. Those characters still don't have god-ki, which was my point. Just because you train more or work harder doesn't mean you should be better, which many people in the fandom fail to understand. Natural talent>>>hard work in both Dragonball and real life. Some people are naturally more gifted at something than others. Some people can achieve more than others with less effort. This real life fact is the reason why unlike much of the fandom, I didn't get mad at Freeza becoming god-level in 4 months, 4 year old Gohan being able to solo all of early DB, Caulilfa becoming SSJ with zero effort, 17 becoming god-level in over a decade, kid Goku mastering abilities that took others decades to do instantly, Goten and Trunks becoming SSJ with no effort, etc. U6 saiyans>half saiyans>U7 saiyans>almost everyone else in terms of potential.

[kn83]

Current Vegito Blue vs 100% Jiren
Aniraza vs Base Toppo
SSJ Goten (post-ROSAT) vs A18 (Buu arc)
GT SSJ Gohan vs Togama (Ginyu)
Current Gogeta Blue vs any God of Destruction

Vegito Blue loses because of the time limit of the fusion. Not sure how to scale his power because 100% Jiren is OP (sadly...)

Aniraza wins due to the fact that he held off 17, Gohan, Goku, Vegeta, and Frieza's energy attacks; while BASE Toppo can barely fend off SSB Goku/Vegeta without using more power IMO.

GT SSJ Gohan ties with Togama. 50/50 imo.

Gogeta Blue would lose because of the time limit of the fusion, since the Blue form would consume too much energy and thus decrease the time limit of the fusion. Same as Vegito.

What if the fusions didn't have a time limit nor stamina issue? How would the fights go then?

[Kataphrut]

Battle of the Saiyan juniors: Gohan, Goten & Present Trunks vs Cabba, Kale & Caulifla.

All ToP era (meaning Gohan has Ultimate, C&C have SSJ2 and Kale has controlled berserk), no Potara fusion but Metamoran fusion IS allowed.

[kn83]

Hypothetical SSBE Kaioken times 20 Goku vs full power Jiren

Goku and Vegeta train in the ROSAT for 100 years, then go to fight the Grand Priest. Can they win?

1. Jiren still stomps.

2. With the logic of powerboost these saiyans get, they might able to match the Grand Priest under those conditions

[kn83]

Battle of the Saiyan juniors: Gohan, Goten & Present Trunks vs Cabba, Kale & Caulifla.

All ToP era (meaning Gohan has Ultimate, C&C have SSJ2 and Kale has controlled berserk), no Potara fusion but Metamoran fusion IS allowed.

Goten, Present Trunks and even Gotenks are fodder compared to the rest, so they're irrelevant. Gohan should be able to take on the 3 U6 saiyans by himself since he is SSB level and they are not. However, Gohan would stand no chance against a Metamoran Kefla.

[Champa The Destroyer]

Hypothetical MUI Goku Black runs a gauntlet (he heals and regains his stamina after every battle)
1. Super Saiyan 2 Kefla
2. Hakaishin Toppo
3. Jiren (episode 127)
4. Vegito Blue
5. Beerus
6. Full Power Jiren
7. MUI Goku
8. Whis

How far does he get?

[kn83]

Hypothetical MUI Goku Black runs a gauntlet (he heals and regains his stamina after every battle)
1. Super Saiyan 2 Kefla
2. Hakaishin Toppo
3. Jiren (episode 127)
4. Vegito Blue
5. Beerus
6. Full Power Jiren
7. MUI Goku
8. Whis

How far does he get?

He loses to Whis, since Black's base is higher than Goku's base so his MUI should be stronger than Goku's.

[Champa The Destroyer]

Hypothetical MUI Goku Black runs a gauntlet (he heals and regains his stamina after every battle)
1. Super Saiyan 2 Kefla
2. Hakaishin Toppo
3. Jiren (episode 127)
4. Vegito Blue
5. Beerus
6. Full Power Jiren
7. MUI Goku
8. Whis

How far does he get?

He loses to Whis, since Black's base is higher than Goku's base so his MUI should be stronger than Goku's.

How far would Goku Black get if he has UI Omen instead?

[dragon boss z]

1. Show me a source for Frost being stronger than base Cabba

[spoiler][/spoiler]

2. Show me source for Vegeta's line being mistranslated (sounds like a bad excuse for downplay). Even if Vegeta was talking to Cabba, the fact that base Cabba could even push that base Vegeta at all proves that he is at least relative to that level if not equal.

Actually looking at it, it's hard to tell, but in the dub it's clear Vegeta is talking to Cabba.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdI0jBJUV3Q

This is also backed up by him talkign directly to Cabba in the manga.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

3. It was outright stated in the anime and manga during the Champa arc by both Cabba and the U6 Surpreme Kai that the entire U6 saiyan race fight villains and invaders everyday. So this nonsense going around in the fandom about them never training or never going through any drama has been debunked from day one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17ElUbCvxpA

Ya they fought fodder. Unless you are telling me every random villain in U6 is Buu tier then that shouldn't be nearly enough to get him to above ssj Vegito. And clearly nobody he cared about died in any of that fighting considering he never went ssj and all it took was a threat to make him go ssj.

4. Those characters still don't have god-ki, which was my point. Just because you train more or work harder doesn't mean you should be better, which many people in the fandom fail to understand. Natural talent>>>hard work in both Dragonball and real life. Some people are naturally more gifted at something than others. Some people can achieve more than others with less effort. This real life fact is the reason why unlike much of the fandom, I didn't get mad at Freeza becoming god-level in 4 months, 4 year old Gohan being able to solo all of early DB, Caulilfa becoming SSJ with zero effort, 17 becoming god-level in over a decade, kid Goku mastering abilities that took others decades to do instantly, Goten and Trunks becoming SSJ with no effort, etc. U6 saiyans>half saiyans>U7 saiyans>almost everyone else in terms of potential.

I'm not saying I'm mad at it. I'm saying that literally isn't the authors intent. You are just falling victim to Super's messed up logic. Krillin flat out pushed Goku to ssj, Gohan dressed as the great saiyaman fought ssj Goku evenly and Gohan even admitted in that episode he hasn't been training. So by your logic Krillin and untrained Gohan could solo all of Z as well. You have to look at the bigger picture with Super as the writing and powerscaling is all over the place. If base Cabba or Frost could of one shot Buu they would of had it happen in the U6 tournament to build hype or show how strong they were, but Toriyama took Buu out because he is too strong. Toriyama just seems to ignore the powercreep of his series. It's the reason Roshi can suddenly throw hands with Frost. And speaking of Roshi he also pushed based Goku before the ToP.... Can Roshi solo all of Z now too?

[kn83]

Ya they fought fodder. Unless you are telling me every random villain in U6 is Buu tier then that shouldn't be nearly enough to get him to above ssj Vegito. And clearly nobody he cared about died in any of that fighting considering he never went ssj and all it took was a threat to make him go ssj.

Bassless assuption. Its different universe. You have no idea whats goes on in U6's history. Kid Goku, Raditz and Nappa been through a lot of shit as well yet they never when SSJ either. Its bad argument you're making.

I'm not saying I'm mad at it. I'm saying that literally isn't the authors intent. You are just falling victim to Super's messed up logic. Krillin flat out pushed Goku to ssj, Gohan dressed as the great saiyaman fought ssj Goku evenly and Gohan even admitted in that episode he hasn't been training. So by your logic Krillin and untrained Gohan could solo all of Z as well. You have to look at the bigger picture with Super as the writing and powerscaling is all over the place. If base Cabba or Frost could of one shot Buu they would of had it happen in the U6 tournament to build hype or show how strong they were, but Toriyama took Buu out because he is too strong. Toriyama just seems to ignore the powercreep of his series. It's the reason Roshi can suddenly throw hands with Frost. And speaking of Roshi he also pushed based Goku before the ToP.... Can Roshi solo all of Z now too?

1. You are projecting your desires onto Toriyama. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it wasn't Toriyama's intent . There is no strong indication that Vegeta was lying to Cabba about his strength as even Goku and others complimented Cabba's base strength. Vegeta wouldn't have taken much of an interest in Cabba if he was barely Buu arc level like you seem to believe. And Frost is definitely NOT weaker than Pre-RoF Freeza.

2. Gohan started training again with Piccolo after RoF. That fight with Goku was after the RoF arc so you have nothing to whine about. Same with Krillin (though Goku make it clear he was holding back with him). Plus, remember when SSJ Gohan two-shotted Tagoma, who was stated to be equal to Mystic Gohan from the Buu arc?

3. Toriyama has never said anything about Buu's strength being why he keeps writing him out of tournaments, that's just your BS headcanon. Fat Buu is far weaker than post-BoG base Goku and Vegeta, Gohan and even Piccolo (who should be at least relative to Mystic Gohan via feats and training since RoF).

4. Roshi never really pushed Goku at any point in Super nor Frost in the ToP. Frost was slapping him around and wasn't going anywhere near full power so what are you complaining about?

[Sonofman]

Current Vegito Blue vs 100% Jiren
Aniraza vs Base Toppo
SSJ Goten (post-ROSAT) vs A18 (Buu arc)
GT SSJ Gohan vs Togama (Ginyu)
Current Gogeta Blue vs any God of Destruction

Vegito Blue loses because of the time limit of the fusion. Not sure how to scale his power because 100% Jiren is OP (sadly...)

Aniraza wins due to the fact that he held off 17, Gohan, Goku, Vegeta, and Frieza's energy attacks; while BASE Toppo can barely fend off SSB Goku/Vegeta without using more power IMO.

GT SSJ Gohan ties with Togama. 50/50 imo.

Gogeta Blue would lose because of the time limit of the fusion, since the Blue form would consume too much energy and thus decrease the time limit of the fusion. Same as Vegito.

What if the fusions didn't have a time limit nor stamina issue? How would the fights go then?

Well, I'm not sure how strong the fusion forms would be since there isn't an accurate power scaling in DBS. I'd really like to say that Vegito Blue or Gogeta Blue would be even with Beerus maybe even more, since it was stated in the movie by Whis that if Goku and Vegeta worked together, they would have a chance of beating Beerus. Plus, that was during the resurrection Frieza arc; Goku and Vegeta have already far surpassed their powers back then.

However, I do think Vegito and Gogeta would definitely be able to beat down Belmod, because we all know Jiren surpassed him before he got his limit-breaking form. So it makes sense having a fused SSB being able to beat down universe 11's GoD with ease.

I'd give Vegito the upper-hand at beating 100% Jiren. IMO.

Gogeta Blue would mid/diff beat down all the ToP GoD since the rest seems relatively weak compared to Belmod. But, I'm just not sure how strong Beerus is at full power. Again, I'm spectating. All opinions here.