Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[LightBing]

Another counterpoint against the two base theory:
Champa considers Goku with the heavy suit a weakling, it doesn't make sense for Goku to be restraining himself when he's training to get stronger, it's also unlikely that the suit would make him that much weaker.
Then at the tournament we know: Goku pre-digestion is the same as Goku with a heavy suit(even Cabba calls him weak). Pretty much telling us that the current base Goku has, is the best he can muster.

I just have to see were Gohan(RoF) is at, to compile a list.

[Khin]

I personally have Base Gohan (ROF Arc) way stronger than Piccolo (ROF Arc) and is equal to his SSj2 Kid self while his SSj form as equal to his Ultimate self.

[Bullza]

I have base Gohan and Piccolo as being equal in the RoF saga.

[Khin]

I have base Gohan and Piccolo as being equal in the RoF saga.

How's that possible ? Piccolo got completely wrecked by Tagoma while Gohan on the other hand states that Tagoma is at least on par with him.

[Hugo Boss]

Piccolo matches Gohan in power, as demonstrared when they were training. Against Tagoma, he was restrained by the heavy suit. Gohan was also overpowered by Tagoma.

[ZombieVito]

Piccolo's weights don't restrict him that much anymore. Remember that he rivals both 18 and 17 with them.

[Bullza]

As I said before I believe that the movie version of Shisami and the TV version of Tagoma are just equal in strenght.

In the movie Piccolo and Shisami were both equal. In Super Gohan was supposed to be equal to Tagoma if he were in fresh condition so it should be like this

Piccolo = Shisami = Tagoma = Gohan.

And later on when Piccolo fought Gohan they were even so I think it fits.

When Piccolo fought Shisami and Gohan he wasn't wearing the weighted clothing but he was when he fought Tagoma.

Back when they fought Raditz once Piccolo took his weights off his power boosted up like 30% and that's huge difference that was probably what got Piccolo trashed.

[Khin]

As stated above,weighted clothes have been irrelevant ever since Android Arc.Weighted Kamiccolo was stated to be able to rival 17 and 18's power.And what makes Shisami equal to Tagoma by the way ?

Shisami < Piccolo < Base Gohan = Tagoma < Full Power Tagoma (Ginyu) < SSj Gohan < 1st Form Freeza

Piccolo matches Gohan in power, as demonstrared when they were training. Against Tagoma, he was restrained by the heavy suit. Gohan was also overpowered by Tagoma.

Dude that was 8 months later.Not to mention that it was a sparring scene.Piccolo matched Goku when they just trained for the Androids,does that make Piccolo = to Goku ?

Minute: 22~23
Gohan (narrating the NEP): “This Tagoma person is on a completely different level from the other soldiers. He’s hiding power at least on par with my own! No way... His power rose even higher?! What's that bizarre pose?!”

[ZombieVito]

I'm starting to think Tagoma did two power ups before Ginyu took over his body.

- First we have the power that he arrived with to Earth, this power was enough to almost kill an off guard base Gohan.
- Then he powers up and even Trunks and Goten noticed his Ki. This power is weaker than Piccolo since he was confident to beat him. Piccolo didn't even take his weights off.
- The second power up was to rip off Piccolo's arm and this one was the one Gohan was talking about in the NEP.

Now I wonder how does Ginyu-Tagoma compares to SSJ Gotenks.

[Bullza]

Weighted Kamiccolo was stated to be able to rival 17 and 18's power.

First of all who made this comment and when?

The weighted clothes must be relevant. Why would they not be? Aside from against Raditz it was clear that Piccolo wasn't fighting seriously against Frieza until he removed the weights.

When he fought Gero he removes them. When he fought 17 he removes them. When he's about to go help Gohan he removes them.

In the movie he throws them at several goons which makes them crash to the ground then he cracks his neck as if it's a load off.

If it was irrelevant and didn't make a difference then he'd just leave them on wouldn't he?

And what makes Shisami equal to Tagoma by the way ?

I'm not saying Shisami is equal to Tagoma in Super if that's what you think I meant. But that the movie version of Shisami is equal to the TV series version of Tagoma.

[Hugo Boss]

Piccolo matched Goku when they just trained for the Androids,does that make Piccolo = to Goku?

If two people are trading blows evenly, they probably have almost the same power. Piccolo's heavy suit does restrain him, even if a little. He wouldn't bother to take it out if it doesn't affect his performance.

Minute: 22~23
Gohan (narrating the NEP): “This Tagoma person is on a completely different level from the other soldiers. He’s hiding power at least on par with my own! No way... His power rose even higher?! What's that bizarre pose?!”

If you continue on reading the following note, this is Gohan breaking the fourth wall. This isn't a line within the story itself.

[Khin]

Weighted Kamiccolo was stated to be able to rival 17 and 18's power.

First of all who made this comment and when?

The weighted clothes must be relevant. Why would they not be? Aside from against Raditz it was clear that Piccolo wasn't fighting seriously against Frieza until he removed the weights.

When he fought Gero he removes them. When he fought 17 he removes them. When he's about to go help Gohan he removes them.

In the movie he throws them at several goons which makes them crash to the ground then he cracks his neck as if it's a load off.

If it was irrelevant and didn't make a difference then he'd just leave them on wouldn't he?

Yes,weights still gives hold back his power,but not the same as before.

Chapter: 362 (DBZ 168), P8.4-6
No.17: “So why don’t you tell us who’s fighting who, while you’re at it?”
No.16: “I don’t know. Neither is in my data. But one of the powers is large enough to rival you two.”
No.17: “What?! Looks like Doctor Gero screwed up again. Your radar is broken. There’s no power in the world that rivals mine.”

It should be noted that this was when Piccolo fought Cell on gingertown.

If you continue on reading the following note, this is Gohan breaking the fourth wall. This isn't a line within the story itself.

Still doesn't change the fact that it comes from the series itself.It's stronger evidence than fan-theories.

[dbzfan7]

I kinda like to think Final Form Freeza and Goku aren't that uber powerful. It's their forms that are. I think it works well with Whis' comment, while also not bloating things as much. It'd also give transformations a big power boost instead of like a miniscule 1.something/2x/3x boost. Though really there are no wrong or right answers since Super hardly tells us shit. It'd also fit better with the ending of DBZ too I think.

[ZombieVito]

If you continue on reading the following note, this is Gohan breaking the fourth wall. This isn't a line within the story itself.

Gohan says almost the same thing in the episode itself.

[Bullza]

Yes,weights still gives hold back his power,but not the same as before.

But we don't really have much to go when it comes to that. It may have boosted his power up 30% against Raditz but yes it doesn't necessarily mean it's that much at other times but there's no way of knowing.

Isnt even as little as a 20% difference between characters supposed to be huge?

Either way the point is Piccolo is stronger without the weights and it isn't just a trivial difference and it could have been the difference that got his ass kicked against Tagoma.

It should be noted that this was when Piccolo fought Cell on gingertown.

Well that could still fit. Just because he rivals them doesn't mean they have to be dead equal. Wasn't #17 supposed to be stronger than #18 anyway? The difference between him with and without the weights could be the difference between him being slightly stronger than #17 and slightly weaker than #18.

[Khin]

20% gap is huge,but not huge enough to casually tank a punch from someone and rip his arm off,even the gap between SSj Goku and Freeza on Namek was about 25%.17 is stronger than 18,but no implications put him way above him.

[Bullza]

Well the gap between Vegeta and Dodoria was also about 25% and he fried him almost instantly.

Also Tagoma did have an emphasis on his durability. It might be possible that even if he and Piccolo were equal in power that Tagoma could still be much more resilient. Like how Piccolo and #17 were equal but Piccolo said #17 was fast but didn't have much of a punch.

[Khin]

Well the gap between Vegeta and Dodoria was also about 25% and he fried him almost instantly.

Also Tagoma did have an emphasis on his durability. It might be possible that even if he and Piccolo were equal in power that Tagoma could still be much more resilient. Like how Piccolo and #17 were equal but Piccolo said #17 was fast but didn't have much of a punch.

Dodoria was 22,000 while Vegeta was 24,000.Thats only around 9% gap,and Dodoria was off his guard when Vegeta killed him.Even if you say Tagoma is more durable that usual,he still ripped Piccolo's arm like a rubber band.

[apex_pretador]

That would also mean ssj is much much stronger than base form and in turn ssj blue is far beyond ssj form.

which is what is intended in the show.

As stated above,weighted clothes have been irrelevant ever since Android Arc.Weighted Kamiccolo was stated to be able to rival 17 and 18's power.And what makes Shisami equal to Tagoma by the way ?

I have weighted Kamiccolo ~= #18 < #17. Why will that not work.
Unweighted kamiccolo was strong enough to probably kill #17. Hellzone grenade technically finished him if not for barrier, the light grenade could've done 17.

[ZombieVito]

Well the gap between Vegeta and Dodoria was also about 25% and he fried him almost instantly.

Also Tagoma did have an emphasis on his durability. It might be possible that even if he and Piccolo were equal in power that Tagoma could still be much more resilient. Like how Piccolo and #17 were equal but Piccolo said #17 was fast but didn't have much of a punch.

Tanking the punch doesn't really matter. What matters is this: