Gohan vs. Dabura

[Xyex]

Yes, during the Saiyaman arc. But then we get a timeskip of a couple weeks. Apparently Gohan got a haircut or something in that time, because during and after the Tournament, he consistently has only the one bang in both SSj and SSj2.

But if you look at his base form he still has the two strands. Even if he got his hair shorter, it wouldn't matter unless the smaller strand was cut off.

We have no idea what sort of change even a minor hair cut would have to the SSJ hair changes. Trunks hair as an SSJ when he first shows up and then later when he's got the long hair are both quite different.

Besides, the hair change is only an in-universe explanation. Toriyama just changed the design and gave SSJ Gohan a single bang instead of two. It's not like he had any bangs as an SSj at the Cell Games.

[Amigo Ten]

On this particular subject, I just say he was Super Saiyan 2. He's clearly not drawn that way, but it makes soooo little sense that I just ignore it. Yeah, I'm not above doing that.

[Xyex]

On this particular subject, I just say he was Super Saiyan 2. He's clearly not drawn that way, but it makes soooo little sense that I just ignore it. Yeah, I'm not above doing that.

I think it makes perfect sense when you consider the situation. Gohan simply lacked the opportunity to transform. His SSJ2 transformation take time and he never really had that time, or the anger to shorten the length of that time.

[Amigo Ten]

I don't see why he needs time or anger.

[Son_Gohan]

We have no idea what sort of change even a minor hair cut would have to the SSJ hair changes. Trunks hair as an SSJ when he first shows up and then later when he's got the long hair are both quite different.

Besides, the hair change is only an in-universe explanation. Toriyama just changed the design and gave SSJ Gohan a single bang instead of two. It's not like he had any bangs as an SSj at the Cell Games.

Well after looking at it again, his hair doesn't appear to have gotten shorter, it may have even got longer from what I can see. SSJ1 and SSJ2 have their own distinct stylings of hair, so we should be able to tell the difference.

[Piccolo Daimao]

On this particular subject, I just say he was Super Saiyan 2. He's clearly not drawn that way, but it makes soooo little sense that I just ignore it. Yeah, I'm not above doing that.

I think it makes perfect sense when you consider the situation. Gohan simply lacked the opportunity to transform. His SSJ2 transformation take time and he never really had that time, or the anger to shorten the length of that time.

Do we actually have proof that Son Gohan needs time to transform into SSJ2, other than that single time he did in the Majin Boo Saga? Goku needed time when he transformed into a SSJ3 in front of Fat Boo, but later could zap right into it against Super Gotenks Boo & Kid Boo.

And no, I'm not going to refer to the Gohan zapping into SSJ2 after Cell came back, because we've already decided that it's a possibility that Gohan was angered or just in the right state of mind to transform.

[Dayspring]

On this particular subject, I just say he was Super Saiyan 2. He's clearly not drawn that way, but it makes soooo little sense that I just ignore it. Yeah, I'm not above doing that.

I think it makes perfect sense when you consider the situation. Gohan simply lacked the opportunity to transform. His SSJ2 transformation take time and he never really had that time, or the anger to shorten the length of that time.

Do we actually have proof that Son Gohan needs time to transform into SSJ2, other than that single time he did in the Majin Boo Saga? Goku needed time when he transformed into a SSJ3 in front of Fat Boo, but later could zap right into it against Super Gotenks Boo & Kid Boo.

And no, I'm not going to refer to the Gohan zapping into SSJ2 after Cell came back, because we've already decided that it's a possibility that Gohan was angered or just in the right state of mind to transform.

Gohan uses a ridiculous amount of time gathering energy at the budokai, to the point that he pissed off the audience by taking so long (from their perspective, Kibito and Gohan were just standing there forever doing nothing). Since this time gap was completely out of left field and served no purpose, it sets precedence that Gohan requires it to transform into SSJ2 post-Cell Games. Plus it's not the time he needs to transform, it's the energy. What he needs time for is to gather the energy required to create the change. This also fits with all the comments later in the 'consistent, inconsistently drawn SSJ2' Gohan, regarding telling him to get angry: if he got angry, he'd have access to an immense well of power, power he could use to transform.

As for Goku, I would argue that he did it deliberatey, as the only reason he was there to fight Fat Boo was to stall for time for Trunks to get the Dragon Radar.

[Amigo Ten]

They spent a while talking before he decided to transform, and he was anxious about doing it, but his actual transformation didn't seem to take long at all.

[Drayenko]

It takes one page.

Why didn't Goku just used the instant transmission to get the Dragon Radar? I've always wondered that.

[Xyex]

It takes one page.

Why didn't Goku just used the instant transmission to get the Dragon Radar? I've always wondered that.

He needs to lock onto a power to do that and the only powers at CC were Bulma's parents, who he likely wouldn't have been able to find very easily.

[Dayspring]

It takes one page.

Why didn't Goku just used the instant transmission to get the Dragon Radar? I've always wondered that.

Seven pages, actually. He did the powering up in his base form (those dozen or so panels that have his eyes change color while he's surrounded in flame aura, with the typical constipated expression).

[Drayenko]

What I meant was the "Going SSJ 3" part, after he shows every form

[Piccolo Daimao]

It takes one page.

Why didn't Goku just used the instant transmission to get the Dragon Radar? I've always wondered that.

He needs to lock onto a power to do that and the only powers at CC were Bulma's parents, who he likely wouldn't have been able to find very easily.

He found Bulma though, when she and the others were summoning Shenlong. Maybe it's just "one of those things".

[Kaboom]

He found Bulma though, when she and the others were summoning Shenlong. Maybe it's just "one of those things".

Goku's known Bulma for almost his entire life. Her Ki would be more "familiar" to him and probably stand out more than others.

[Piccolo Daimao]

He found Bulma though, when she and the others were summoning Shenlong. Maybe it's just "one of those things".

Goku's known Bulma for almost his entire life. Her Ki would be more "familiar" to him and probably stand out more than others.

No, I really think it's one of those plot convenience things. Toriyama just needed an excuse to show off Goku's SSJ3.

[Drayenko]

He found Bulma though, when she and the others were summoning Shenlong. Maybe it's just "one of those things".

Goku's known Bulma for almost his entire life. Her Ki would be more "familiar" to him and probably stand out more than others.

No, I really think it's one of those plot convenience things. Toriyama just needed an excuse to show off Goku's SSJ3.

I agree with this.

[Xyex]

He found Bulma though, when she and the others were summoning Shenlong. Maybe it's just "one of those things".

Goku's known Bulma for almost his entire life. Her Ki would be more "familiar" to him and probably stand out more than others.

No, I really think it's one of those plot convenience things. Toriyama just needed an excuse to show off Goku's SSJ3.

The way I see it, Goku's SSJ3 was just a means of letting him stall Buu without getting beat down like Vegeta had, following his "we're about the same" statement to Piccolo earlier. It was a stall tactic that I doubt existed before Toriyama went "Ok, now how's Goku not going to have as much issue as Vegeta, who he's equal to? Ah-ha, I know, I'll give him ANOTHER transformation!"

[caejones]

Well, Goku could have teleported to Capsule Corp, but would have had to have found the Dragon Radar and left with it before Buu got there; it would have been inconvenient if Buu had shown up while Goku was there but hadn't been able to find it. (Never mind that it turned out to be useless, hee... ).
Also... it made Trunks look vaguely less useless, since he could get there more quickly than Bulma but lived there and ... stuff.

While Goku's transformation being a means of letting Goku stand a chance at stalling Buu seems like a Toriyama-ism... I wonder if all of his designs for the transformation don't indicate otherwise...

[Xyex]

While Goku's transformation being a means of letting Goku stand a chance at stalling Buu seems like a Toriyama-ism... I wonder if all of his designs for the transformation don't indicate otherwise...

Well, you have to design something before you can use it. So even if they idea only came to him a few weeks/chapters in advance that's still time to work on designs.

[Dayspring]

Well, Goku could have teleported to Capsule Corp, but would have had to have found the Dragon Radar and left with it before Buu got there; it would have been inconvenient if Buu had shown up while Goku was there but hadn't been able to find it. (Never mind that it turned out to be useless, hee... ).
Also... it made Trunks look vaguely less useless, since he could get there more quickly than Bulma but lived there and ... stuff.

This is what I figured. The Capsule corp is like an Olympic stadium. Teleporting to where the parents are would put him somewhere in the uber-complex, but not necessarily anywhere near the Radar. Meanwhile Trunks knows exactly where the Radar is located.